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Israel and Palestine
Posted 3/9/13
We need to decide that we will not go to war, whatever reason is conjured up by the politicians or the media, because war in our time is always indiscriminate, a war against innocents, a war against children. - Howard Zinn
Posted 3/9/13
War is the product of caring about things that have no interest to the dead. Once you are dead, what do you care? Only stupid people get caught up in the business of the dead. The cycle never ends
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Posted 3/9/13

AruarianDance wrote:

the value of human life depends on the interests of the more powerful.

my "rational analysis" is that the blood shed on both sides is not worth it for whatever aim. and segregating your entire race in to it's own country to find "peace" by killing is a paradox, it's irrational and psychopathic. because the UN chooses to prostitute land to those interested in it doesn't justify anything. You act as if Israelis and Palestinians are in the same boat, they're not, they don't even share equal rights and to most IDF soldiers ( American sanctioned thugs ) it's a game. The brutalization won't stop as long as people like you choose to condone it in any sense.

like i said, you're clearly a sociopath. And a little bit weird, look at the status on your photo's.... lol


Reading through your moralising pratting, I have yet to find anything resembling a reasoned argument. You first speak of 'segregation an entire race in its own country'- never mind that Palestinians are not a race, but a nationality belonging to a nation of Palestine (your racism is simply too much), and that the Israeli government does not govern Palestine, so any 'segregation' that may occur occurs at the hand of the Palestinian authority themselves, or that Israel is a multi-ethnic society with Arab Israelis, African Israeli, Ashkenazi Israeli, Sephardic Israeli, Samartians, etc.- this is so ignorant, I must assume that you have no idea about the conflict at all, and therefore speak beyond your capabilities.

Second, you speak of the UN as 'whoring the land' of Israel, when the Jews who lived in Israel already formed a good portion of the land that was partitioned to them. In fact, with the end of British Mandate, the land was partitioned between the State of Israel and the Arabs by the UN, with the Arabs receiving, by far, the larger portion. They dedicated, then, themselves to eliminating the Jews from the portion they have, and, when the Jews successfully repulsed them, called upon fellow Arab nations to attack Israel. Israel still won. They set up organisations whose avowed purpose is to eliminate all Israelis- Israel is not acting beyond its bound to defend itself and destroy its enemies. You act as though Israel is getting favoured treatment from the UN, when the UN has been very hostile to Israel- releasing statements after statements that Israeli is violating international law. So, your position become incomprehensible, because it does not accept any ruling favourable to Israel, but tout all the ones condemning it, is the UN the evil Pimp, or the spokesman of reason and humanity?

Third, you accuse me of saying that Palestine and Israel are on the same boat- I have never said that, nor have I made any claim to it, but your response to this straw position is so laughable, it is hard to take you seriously. Do Palestinians and Israelis have equal rights- of course not, they are ruled by a different government. Arab Israelis and Jewish Israelis, on th' other hand, do enjoy the same de jure rights as gaurenteed by the Israeli constitution.

Fourth, you speak of the IDF as American sanctioned thuggees who treat this whole affair as a game. I can assure you, the IDF does not treat defending their nation against a very real threat to the security of their country and their family as mere 'game'. They take their job very seriously. It may be hard for an English fellow like you to understand, but, they are living in a war zone, not unlike Northern Ireland- way back before your were born. As for the causes of the 'brutalisation', it is clear that the cause is Palestinian attack upon Israel and the Palestinian threat that are the root cause of all this, and, until these terrorists are put down, there is no rest.

Therefore, if I am a psychopath, I am at least one with a functioning brain, which is more than what can be said of you.
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Posted 3/9/13

AruarianDance wrote:

We need to decide that we will not go to war, whatever reason is conjured up by the politicians or the media, because war in our time is always indiscriminate, a war against innocents, a war against children. - Howard Zinn


Augustine and Aquinas' bit on 'Just War' is applicable here as rebuttal.
Posted 3/10/13
you can't rebuttal that by linking me to something which has "peace must be the central motive" when the Israeli's want there peace, not to coexist with the Palestinians.

carry on all you want with your zionist theories that it's fair for Palestinians to be forced out of their homeland because of the Bible and settlers many many many years before. If they wanted a peaceful solution they wouldn't be the biggest recipient of military aid by the United States, they want to wipe it off the map, the home of millions of innocents. fuck you for justifying it. I think you're lost and are now just constantly trying to find something to latch on to which completely approves of brutalization. I couldn't care less about some religious doctrine from thousands of years ago.

"Just war conduct should be governed by the principle of distinction. The acts of war should be directed towards enemy combatants, and not towards non-combatants caught in circumstances they did not create"

but, that was from just war? OK..... makes a lot of sense in Gaza, you know, with the innocent slaughter.

If this conflict was fair at all It wouldn't be the 5th largest military power vs civilians with home made weapons protecting the land they and their parents were bought up on, you get your land invades you protect it, and you protect your children.

There would be no censorship, unwarranted arrests, village demolitions, border blockades, breaks of ceasefire, ambushes on humanitarian aid ships, possible use of chemical weapons, killing of protesters and journalists on the west bank...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMFAfQJKlAM

Israel's war on truth.

Also, there's a video up on 2 men, one Israeli and one Palestinian who both had children killed in the conflict and now fight to find peace. listen to that, from the perspective of a parent losing his child who got caught in aggression and the "war" is seen through a different lens. the victims have no crime, they should not be punished, and when the body count is so high it's hard to condemn.

The human rights watchers and activists who visit, Amnesty international etc repeatedly stress the ongoing crisis the Palestinians face.

America don't give billions in military aid to countries looking to stabilize the area. they love violence, it's a big part of their business for the wa profiteers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTAvst5mxW4 - Israeli activist speaks out
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Posted 3/10/13 , edited 3/10/13

AruarianDance wrote:

you can't rebuttal that by linking me to something which has "peace must be the central motive" when the Israeli's want there peace, not to coexist with the Palestinians.


Incoherent. Just completely and utterly incoherent.


carry on all you want with your zionist theories that it's fair for Palestinians to be forced out of their homeland because of the Bible and settlers many many many years before. If they wanted a peaceful solution they wouldn't be the biggest recipient of military aid by the United States, they want to wipe it off the map, the home of millions of innocents. fuck you for justifying it. I think you're lost and are now just constantly trying to find something to latch on to which completely approves of brutalization. I couldn't care less about some religious doctrine from thousands of years ago.


There is a consistent trend amongst my enemies to accuse me of advocating certain principles and positions I have never advocated- such as saying that Israel's legitimacy is founded upon the Bible. Quite the contrary, I have made it clear that Israel's legitimacy lies not in scripture but in UN mandate and international law. Secondly, I have never pretended that Israel wanted peace, but stated, contrary wise, that they are justified in war, given that the Palestinian authorities openly vow to destroy the Israeli government and kill all the Jews. Thus, it is necessary for them to attack Palestinians to ensure the safety of their own citizens. The word 'brutalisation' is repeated over and over, apparently, because it is the IDF that's brutal, not some backward and derelict society that thinks it is still okay to stone ladies for showing a small bit of skin. Seeing as you have yet to raise even a mildly intelligent argument, I think you are a complete and utter git, and you have no idea what you are talking about, and your remarkably low intelligence manifest itself quite clearly in your complete and utter indifference to grammar, spelling, and all the other niceties that is require to make your intelligible.



"Just war conduct should be governed by the principle of distinction. The acts of war should be directed towards enemy combatants, and not towards non-combatants caught in circumstances they did not create"

but, that was from just war? OK..... makes a lot of sense in Gaza, you know, with the innocent slaughter.


The IDF, I can assure you, work to minimise damage- they are not at fault if enemy combatants decide to use civilians as shields.



If this conflict was fair at all It wouldn't be the 5th largest military power vs civilians with home made weapons protecting the land they and their parents were bought up on, you get your land invades you protect it, and you protect your children.


So, you are blaming Israel for being too powerful, and that we should level the field so that Palestinians can have a shot at killing more Israeli citizens then they already have. Brilliant there, lad. I suppose the British troops stationed in Northern Ireland during the Troubles should abandon their weapon and fight the IRA and the UDF bare-handedly, so more bystanders and uninvolved civilians can be killed. You are one bright lad, you should serve as Mr Cameron's Minister of Defence.



There would be no censorship, unwarranted arrests, village demolitions, border blockades, breaks of ceasefire, ambushes on humanitarian aid ships, possible use of chemical weapons, killing of protesters and journalists on the west bank...


And there would be a whole lot more dead Israelis, the government would not be able to protect their own citizenry, the Palestinians can more freely shoot at Israeli civilians, chemical weapons can be smuggled in to aid the Palestinians, etc., etc. But, that's okay, because the side you are supporting would have a strong hand, wouldn't it?


Also, prove that there is 1. censorship, 2. unwarranted arrests, 3. demolition of villages, 4. intentional murder of protesters and journalists.





Your war on reality, more like.


Also, there's a video up on 2 men, one Israeli and one Palestinian who both had children killed in the conflict and now fight to find peace. listen to that, from the perspective of a parent losing his child who got caught in aggression and the "war" is seen through a different lens. the victims have no crime, they should not be punished, and when the body count is so high it's hard to condemn.


Listen to the words of the cousin of five month old Yehuda Shoham, who was stoned to death by Palestinian protestors:

'Yehuda was just a baby, without sin or enemy, yet he was killed for one reason only, he was a Jew on his way home in Eretz Yisrael'


It seems that they are out for blood. If we listen to every parent who have lost a child, we would get all sort of reactions, let's stop the fighting (something everyone has tried, and failed, to do every single time), let's murder them all, etc., etc. Which grieving relative should I listen to, the mother who is screaming for the head of every one of her baby's murderer or the father who is preaching peace and love and fraternity- the perspective of a parent losing a child is nice, it does not provide an argument, and only serve to increase the sentimental. Of course, if Samuel Johnson speak of Patriotism as the last refuge of the scoundrel, the first refuge would be sentimentality.




The human rights watchers and activists who visit, Amnesty international etc repeatedly stress the ongoing crisis the Palestinians face.


If they just handed over all the terrorists and militants of HAMAS and the PLO, they wouldn't be suffering.


America don't give billions in military aid to countries looking to stabilize the area. they love violence, it's a big part of their business for the wa profiteers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTAvst5mxW4 - Israeli activist speaks out


And then you start bitching about how evil the Americans are and how they love violence. Really, when Israel, Britain, and France decided to bomb Egypt and take over the Suez Canal, guess who stopped them? That's right, America under the Republican Eisenhower.


Unless you can come back with an actual argument instead of some emotional raving, sod off.

Posted 3/10/13 , edited 3/10/13
the functioning of your mind has stopped working, you're completely lost. completely. all I have to say is zionism will be crushed just like all other nationalist ideologies, world peace is never coming as long as the human brain functions in a way that protects certain people and not others.
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Posted 3/10/13

AruarianDance wrote:

the functioning of your mind has stopped working, you're completely lost. completely. all I have to say is zionism will be crushed just like all other nationalist ideologies, world peace is never coming as long as the human brain functions in a way that protects certain people and not others.


It is amazing how you say that 'all nationalist ideologies will be crushed', just as how Irish nationalism was crushed, and so there was no independent Ireland, or how German nationalism was crushed, and that is why we don't have a single German state, or how the Welsh and Scottish independence movement are being crushed, which is why the good people of Wales no longer speak Welsh, and Plaid Cymru is completely extinct, or how the SNP have absolutely no seats at all- in fact, there is so little nationalism, that it is impossible to even think of something as silly as a Welsh Assembly or a Scottish Parliament.


It would appear that your mind has never functioned (reading through your drivel), and that now you have nothing left to say since every point you have raised has been more than adequately rebutted. But, I can agree with you on one point (and this point only), world peace will never come. And I shall never expect it to come, even when 'the human brain functions in a way that does not protect certain people and not others', and whatever other juvenile and childish silliness you mean to spout.
Posted 3/10/13
I'll admit, you know a lot more about politics than me, but I am at least human and have emotion for the victims of war, none of which are necessary. I'll keep up activism until the world is rid of people like yourself. Zionism won't last long.
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Posted 3/10/13
Yes, Zionism is going to end soon. It will end this year.
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Posted 3/10/13

longfenglim wrote:

But, I can agree with you on one point (and this point only), world peace will never come. And I shall never expect it to come, even when 'the human brain functions in a way that does not protect certain people and not others', and whatever other juvenile and childish silliness you mean to spout.


Why should you never expect it to come? Surely you are not so dull as to think that people cannot overcome their psychological problems, are you?
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Posted 3/10/13 , edited 3/10/13

lordseth23 wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

But, I can agree with you on one point (and this point only), world peace will never come. And I shall never expect it to come, even when 'the human brain functions in a way that does not protect certain people and not others', and whatever other juvenile and childish silliness you mean to spout.


Why should you never expect it to come? Surely you are not so dull as to think that people cannot overcome their psychological problems, are you?


You haven't overcame your stupidity.

But, regardless, as a leopard cannot change its spots, so it is that one cannot overcome one's genetic predeposition. As many psychologists and philosophers have noted, notably Nietzsche and Dr Adler, the human condition is one where we seek to dominate, one that is innate and inherent within all of us, and it is stupidity to think we can overcome ourselves- from nativity, your predeposition is set, everything is set- you shall grow up to that way and that way only. To speak otherwise is to speak nonsense.
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Posted 3/11/13

longfenglim wrote:

You haven't overcame your stupidity.

But, regardless, as a leopard cannot change its spots, so it is that one cannot overcome one's genetic predeposition. As many psychologists and philosophers have noted, notably Nietzsche and Dr Adler, the human condition is one where we seek to dominate, one that is innate and inherent within all of us, and it is stupidity to think we can overcome ourselves- from nativity, your predeposition is set, everything is set- you shall grow up to that way and that way only. To speak otherwise is to speak nonsense.


And what stupidity do you speak of?

Are you so naive as to think that we are not capable of changing genetic predeposition? Look around, my child, open your eyes for once. We have already created artificial intelligences that far surpass the capabilities of your intellect, and it is only a matter of time before we understand the code of life that will enable us to improve humanity in exponential proportions. Your Nietzsche and Dr. Adler have no business in discussing a topic they know so little about, for the field of neuroscience has already proven that much of the petty emotions that you struggle with can easily be controlled and manipulated to the liking of any person with a fully functioning cognizance. To think that a person cannot overcome the will to dominate is nothing but a delusion, my child, for one needs to look no further than myself to see how a human can transcend their psychological predisposition and live in a manner that is nothing short of perfection.
Posted 3/11/13

lordseth23 wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

You haven't overcame your stupidity.

But, regardless, as a leopard cannot change its spots, so it is that one cannot overcome one's genetic predeposition. As many psychologists and philosophers have noted, notably Nietzsche and Dr Adler, the human condition is one where we seek to dominate, one that is innate and inherent within all of us, and it is stupidity to think we can overcome ourselves- from nativity, your predeposition is set, everything is set- you shall grow up to that way and that way only. To speak otherwise is to speak nonsense.


And what stupidity do you speak of?

Are you so naive as to think that we are not capable of changing genetic predeposition? Look around, my child, open your eyes for once. We have already created artificial intelligences that far surpass the capabilities of your intellect, and it is only a matter of time before we understand the code of life that will enable us to improve humanity in exponential proportions. Your Nietzsche and Dr. Adler have no business in discussing a topic they know so little about, for the field of neuroscience has already proven that much of the petty emotions that you struggle with can easily be controlled and manipulated to the liking of any person with a fully functioning cognizance. To think that a person cannot overcome the will to dominate is nothing but a delusion, my child, for one needs to look no further than myself to see how a human can transcend their psychological predisposition and live in a manner that is nothing short of perfection.


you've gotten over your cannabis paranoia haven't you?

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Posted 3/11/13 , edited 3/11/13

AruarianDance wrote:


you've gotten over your cannabis paranoia haven't you?



What cannabis paranoia do you speak of? I let go of my fear of cannabis well before I ever created that thread and spoke to you about it.
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