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Post Reply Why do we need governments?
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Posted 1/31/13 , edited 1/31/13

Thepoorfool wrote:

Even IF that happened, it would not eliminate greed or the need for control.


How wouldn't it? Define greed or the need for control. Why do you believe that humans cannot shed the fears that cause them to be greedy?





People are born with diseases or edges that make them special, there will always be an upper and lower class until this is changed. Until everyone has equal brain power, and the same upbringing, this dream of yours cannot happen.


That is what I am proposing, everyone should have the same upbringing so they can properly understand the concept of love. The unfortunate souls that have a permanent brain defect can be carefully attended to without any problems. Why do you emphasize upper and lower classes so much? You need to let go of your materialism, it is not necessary.





And quite frankly, i like diversity, if everyone was the same that would be terribly boring, yes there are bad things that happen as a result of this, but such is life.


Everyone doesn't have to be the same, I never suggested nor implied this. You can empathize with a person without being exactly like that person. Everyone is capable of loving each other while maintaining their diversity.




Too many humans i say, too many! Too many people with no desire to help or do anything, me? I couldn't care less because i know there is nothing that can be done without a significant increase in technology and a SEVERE social shift in opinion and action, between the those two thing's the most likely is the tech increase, but i have huge doubts about the social shift that is needed.


We just need to convince everybody that they should have the desire to help others. Why do you have doubts about this?






Nefunrest wrote:

This is really REALLY REALLY hopeful thinking. You said if we had a completely educated society then we would be able to accomplish this feat.

That's just asking for a more unstable society. Think about it. If everyone was more educated, they would have more developed skills and knowledge for crime or deviance.


You have a misconception about the education I am talking about. With the proper education, people will never feel the need to ever be deviant.





This is why we have governments, to put out control, to enforce negative sanctions such as laws to punish crime. Of course in many countries this is abused, this power, but it is better then the anarchy that would come out of having no governments.


How would there be anarchy?




Being educated doesn't mean people will get along. Some people no matter how much education will just be plain stupid or moronic.


Now you are being quite deviant yourself in isolating human beings and making them feel that they are less of a human then you are. Why do you hold these views?




Not everyone can be educated, be it a physical defect, or a psychological build that prevents further education.


People that have a permanent mental defect can easily be taken care of, this is not a problem. Based on your previous comments, I get the impression that you have doubts about non-retarded people being able to hold the same moral intuitions that you do. If this is the case, why do you believe that they cannot attain the highest emotional intelligence?

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Posted 1/31/13
Have you forgotten the age old fight? Yes the competition we all call mating as long as that is necessary there will be fighting.
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Posted 1/31/13

romanmink wrote:

Have you forgotten the age old fight? Yes the competition we all call mating as long as that is necessary there will be fighting.


Why does mating need to be a competition? Why can't we just mate with anybody that wants to mate with us?
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Posted 1/31/13

lordseth23 wrote:


romanmink wrote:

Have you forgotten the age old fight? Yes the competition we all call mating as long as that is necessary there will be fighting.


Why does mating need to be a competition? Why can't we just mate with anybody that wants to mate with us?


Why do you answer every question with a question? Can you not answer the question and resolve it there? Let me make this easy for you. People don't just mate with whoever they mate with whoever they want to mate with. It's a process that includes trial and error. Trial and error causes problems too. Not to mention the fact that when they do procreate/mate it's a sensation for a reason. Sensation causes lust. Not to mention heart-break causes hate. You can not get rid of these factors with proper education. I suppose you have a proper education too?
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Posted 1/31/13

romanmink wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:


romanmink wrote:

Have you forgotten the age old fight? Yes the competition we all call mating as long as that is necessary there will be fighting.


Why does mating need to be a competition? Why can't we just mate with anybody that wants to mate with us?


Why do you answer every question with a question? Can you not answer the question and resolve it there? Let me make this easy for you. People don't just mate with whoever they mate with whoever they want to mate with. It's a process that includes trial and error. Trial and error causes problems too. Not to mention the fact that when they do procreate/mate it's a sensation for a reason. Sensation causes lust. Not to mention heart-break causes hate. You can not get rid of these factors with proper education. I suppose you have a proper education too?


I ask you questions because you make unfounded assumptions. Just because people don't do it now doesn't mean they aren't capable of doing it. Sex is sex, there is nothing special about the sensation, you just choose to be influenced by your hormones and feel the need to think it is special. Once everyone drops their unnecessary infatuation with coitus, there will be no need to make mating a competition.
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Posted 1/31/13
New day, done talking about irritating world. Peace.
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Posted 1/31/13

romanmink wrote:



It does. Hate causes problems people like you cause problems.


If you feel like I am causing problems, please kill me.





People like me cause problems.


How are you causing problems?





You lack emotional intelligence in your own way.


How am I lacking emotional intelligence?






Not to mention your cutting off half of the normal human emotions.


How am I cutting off human emotions?
Rouge9 
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Posted 2/2/13
@lordseth23 are you bat-shit crazy? The more I read your responses the more I know that you are deliberately trying to provoke an argument and that right there is one reason. But the main reason that your education answer won't work is that every human mind can not be educated to the same level. Tests and scientific research have proven this long ago. ADHD, mental retardation and other learning disorders have restricted those people to a certain level therefore we would have to restrict everyone else to said level. Education becomes the enemy to your argument. No education is the enemy. We would no longer be able to keep the tech we have running. All humans are not created equal some are better athletes. Others have higher intelligence. Differences cause jealousies causes hate causes aggressive behavior causes war. The human psychology is based on a fight or flight instinct. And here is the kicker who are you going to have take care of humanity, because the only way we have no governments and have food for each person on this planet is if there someone('s) there to give you all that you have and need like a zookeeper. And the animals at the zoo don't want to stay there either otherwise they wouldn't need the cages and fences to keep them there. Government comes from the general public's want to be protected from the few who would take whatever they want whenever they felt like it. In the US we appoint those people. Elsewhere there are dictatorships, monarchies, republics. And my last point is this the expression" the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" holds more truth's on human nature than any other saying that I can think of. Humanity as a whole is what it is. There are those that will take whatever they can, there are those who will try and stop them. There are smart people on both sides. Governments and religions are used by both. You can't fix stupid. You can't force beliefs on the non believers. Evil is out there. So is good. Information can be used both ways.
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Posted 2/2/13 , edited 2/2/13

Rouge9 wrote:

@lordseth23 are you bat-shit crazy? The more I read your responses the more I know that you are deliberately trying to provoke an argument and that right there is one reason.


How am I trying to provoke an argument? If you do not agree with my beliefs, tell me why I am wrong.





But the main reason that your education answer won't work is that every human mind can not be educated to the same level. Tests and scientific research have proven this long ago. ADHD, mental retardation and other learning disorders have restricted those people to a certain level therefore we would have to restrict everyone else to said level.


Yes, which is why I said multiple times that people with permanent mental disorders will not be expected to have the same emotional intelligence as everybody else, these people can easily be taken care of. Everyone else with a normal functioning cognisance could be subjected to this education in order to make the world a better place.





All humans are not created equal some are better athletes. Others have higher intelligence. Differences cause jealousies causes hate causes aggressive behavior causes war. The human psychology is based on a fight or flight instinct.


These differences are insignificant and do not prevent people from respecting one another. We can easily let go of jealousies and never think in a jealous way ever again, you just have to believe that you can do it. Just because we have a fight or flight instinct does not mean we can't have perfect moral intuitions and fight for what is right.





And here is the kicker who are you going to have take care of humanity, because the only way we have no governments and have food for each person on this planet is if there someone('s) there to give you all that you have and need like a zookeeper. And the animals at the zoo don't want to stay there either otherwise they wouldn't need the cages and fences to keep them there.


Which is where education comes in. Once everyone is properly educated, they can take care of themselves and everybody around them. Again, you should not be concerned with resources, because I have already cited a book that clearly states we will have an abundance of resources once the right technology is available. You should have more faith in the incredible abilities of the human psyche and shouldn't compare humans to animals like this.






Government comes from the general public's want to be protected from the few who would take whatever they want whenever they felt like it.


Which is why we educate the people that you are talking about, so their flawed logic can be disposed of once and for all.




There are those that will take whatever they can, there are those who will try and stop them. There are smart people on both sides. Governments and religions are used by both. You can't fix stupid. You can't force beliefs on the non believers. Evil is out there. So is good. Information can be used both ways.


Why do you believe that people are inherently evil and cannot move past their fears?
Rouge9 
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Posted 2/2/13 , edited 2/2/13
There are different grades of intelligence. IQ tests are use to get a general idea of what a persons able to learn. Physicists all the way down to your local garbage man each have their own IQ. And yes I believe that there are people that are born evil; Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, David Koresh, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, that bastard that killed 70+ people in a movie theater in Colorado, other bastard in New Town, CT killed 20 6 year olds. What the f*** is your definition off evil, all you have to do is look in the history books to know it's there. I don't think any amount of education would have made these people any better. And comparing us to animals, we share 98% of our DNA with animal's. We are animals. Wake up and put the drugs down. What is your definition of education, brain washing? I usually don't bother looking for someone's age but apparently you have learned nothing in the schools that you have attended, have never bothered to do anything but quote a science fiction novel and star trek, remember even in that futuristic society they had a government there too. Learn from your history or you are destined to repeat it. OK kid. And another thing there are people who have and there are people who have not. The have nots want what the haves have. The haves want to keep what they have. Now here's the mind f***. Everyone is a have, everyone is a have not. Now remember that some people are inherently evil and will take what they want when they want it. And that's why tribes were formed. Then two tribes formed a beneficial alliance. The others saw this and formed there own alliances, more and more and you start seeing the first forms of government, tribal councils, warlords, kings, emperors, dictatorships, republics, socialism, democracy. Its all there in our history. And as I reread the posters ahead of me I have come to one conclusion, if someone has not been able to get through to you in the last 16 years of your life, it not going to be me today. That steel skull of yours is waaay to thick. Don't bother responding because I won't be responding again. As I said in my previous post you can't fix stupid.
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Posted 2/2/13 , edited 2/2/13

Rouge9 wrote:

There are different grades of intelligence. IQ tests are use to get a general idea of what a persons able to learn. Physicists all the way down to your local garbage man each have their own IQ.


And you should note that the IQ is not an exact science. There are countless instances of people improving their IQ scores in direct correlation with the betterment of their lives.






And yes I believe that there are people that are born evil; Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, David Koresh, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, that bastard that killed 70+ people in a movie theater in Colorado, other bastard in New Town, CT killed 20 6 year olds.


It would do you good to actually research the histories of these people before you dismiss them as inherently evil people. The circumstances that they grew up in made them act in evil ways, it was not their fault. If they would have received the proper affection as children and adolescents, they would have never committed their horrible crimes.






What the f*** is your definition off evil, all you have to do is look in the history books to know it's there.


The actions of people may be evil, but that does not mean they are evil.





I don't think any amount of education would have made these people any better.


Why don't you think so?






And comparing us to animals, we share 98% of our DNA with animal's. We are animals. Wake up and put the drugs down.


Maybe you should put the drugs down and realize that our functioning cognizances surpass that of any other living creature that we know of.






I usually don't bother looking for someone's age but apparently you have learned nothing in the schools that you have attended, have never bothered to do anything but quote a science fiction novel and star trek, remember even in that futuristic society they had a government there too.


When did I quote a science fiction novel or Star Trek?






Learn from your history or you are destined to repeat it.


How am I, in any way, shape, or form, suggesting that we should not learn from our past mistakes?







And another thing there are people who have and there are people who have not. The have nots want what the haves have. The haves want to keep what they have.


They shouldn't, there is no need for this childish behavior.






Now remember that some people are inherently evil and will take what they want when they want it.


How are they inherently evil? They won't feel the need to do this once they are properly educated.






And that's why tribes were formed. Then two tribes formed a beneficial alliance. The others saw this and formed there own alliances, more and more and you start seeing the first forms of government, tribal councils, warlords, kings, emperors, dictatorships, republics, socialism, democracy. Its all there in our history.


And like you said above, we should learn from our history, so there is no need for these petty groupings.






And as I reread the posters ahead of me I have come to one conclusion, if someone has not been able to get through to you in the last 16 years of your life, it not going to be me today. That steel skull of yours is waaay to thick. Don't bother responding because I won't be responding again. As I said in my previous post you can't fix stupid.


Explain to me how I am stupid when I just calmly and reasonably countered every single point you tried to make.
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Posted 2/3/13
It is not feasible while we are not a hive-mind.
And, lordseth23, we would need a massive genetic change to not produce malformed or malfunctioning people. That sort of thing is not always a matter of nurture/environment. In the end, we might even no longer be what we consider Human.
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Posted 2/4/13

Alanj95 wrote:

It is not feasible while we are not a hive-mind.
And, lordseth23, we would need a massive genetic change to not produce malformed or malfunctioning people. That sort of thing is not always a matter of nurture/environment. In the end, we might even no longer be what we consider Human.


Then we must change humanity for the better, change genetics for the best, and live in a world where we can trust each other.




Syndicaidramon wrote:

For that to happen, you have to remove all religion and all politics.


Why can't we do this?




Not to mention, without a government, humanity would be disorganized.


It doesn't have to be. We can organize any economical matters amongst ourselves.




Which is bad, because it's being organized that allows us to live the relatively good lives we in the west live.


They aren't good enough, so we need to be educated more.





lordseth23
No, I am a virgin. Why do you believe that there is a special feeling that comes with sex?


If you have not had the experience of something, you are not fit to express any opinion what so ever about said experience.

Therefore, you have no business asking such a question, as it is based on the pretense that sex is NOT special, which you would not know, since you have never partaken in it.


Then you need to tell me what special feeling there is that comes with sex, since I have not had the experience myself.
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Posted 2/4/13

lordseth23

Syndicaidramon wrote:

For that to happen, you have to remove all religion and all politics.


Why can't we do this?


As far as religion goes, there are several reasons. For one, many people are too ignorant to see that the world would be better without it. Especially the people that are religious. Simply put, there are still too many religious people in the world for any action towards the eradication of religion to be feasible.
Second, because one cannot force people to change their beliefs. A person's beliefs can only be changed if the person itself is willing to be convinced that their old way of thinking is incorrect, which is very difficult for many people, and even impossible for some.

As for politics, it goes for the same reasons as religion.
In addition to that, we would need a system in place that would ensure that all people get what they are entitled to and that no one does anything bad towards other people. It would have to be a 100% perfect system that no one had a problem with, and who could not go wrong in any way, which is practicly impossible.



lordseth23

Not to mention, without a government, humanity would be disorganized.


It doesn't have to be. We can organize any economical matters amongst ourselves.


Impossible when concidering how many people there are on this planet, and taking the human condition into account.
Which includes greed, jealousy and desire. Someone is BOUND to wrong someone. And when that happens, who are going to stop these people from doing more wrong?
And what when a society realizes that if they band together, they can steal from other countries? Who's going to stop them?



lordseth23

Which is bad, because it's being organized that allows us to live the relatively good lives we in the west live.


They aren't good enough, so we need to be educated more.

Of course they aren't good enough.
Education cannot do everything. You seem to think that if everyone was just educated better, all the problems of the world would be solved. They wouldn't. Because there would still be disagreement over things. Things that does not have a definitive "right" or "wrong" answer.



lordseth23


lordseth23
No, I am a virgin. Why do you believe that there is a special feeling that comes with sex?


If you have not had the experience of something, you are not fit to express any opinion what so ever about said experience.

Therefore, you have no business asking such a question, as it is based on the pretense that sex is NOT special, which you would not know, since you have never partaken in it.


Then you need to tell me what special feeling there is that comes with sex, since I have not had the experience myself.


And what gives you the impression that everything can be explained in mere words?
How about this? In the meantime until you finally do get to experience sex... instead of demanding an explanation, how about you just accept that your notion of sex being nothing special is wrong?
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