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Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide chris1976 wrote:
turborobo wrote:
moneygrip3030 wrote:
turborobo wrote:
moneygrip3030 wrote:
"The quantum mind–body problem refers to the philosophical discussions of the mind–body problem in the context of quantum mechanics. Since quantum mechanics involves quantum superpositions, which are not perceived by observers, some interpretations of quantum mechanics place conscious observers in a special position".
"The structure of the multiverse, the nature of each universe within it and the relationship between the various constituent universes, depend on the specific multiverse hypothesis considered. Multiverses have been hypothesized in cosmology, physics, astronomy, religion, philosophy, transpersonal psychology and fiction, particularly in science fiction and fantasy. In these contexts, parallel universes are also called "alternative universes", "quantum universes", "interpenetrating dimensions", "parallel dimensions", "parallel worlds", "alternative realities", "alternative timelines", and "dimensional planes," among others".
I for one believe time is not linear but that we as humans are limited in our ability to perceive it as anything but linear do to our biological limitations (4th dimensional brain). I am also a firm believer in the Multiverse theory. Every action creates an alternate time line which can be considered an alternate reality or universe. This is due to the nature of observation on reality and that every choice has an infinite amount of outcomes. For those interested in these topics I highly suggest reading Greg Bears "The City at the End of Time". While fiction I believe it to be one of the finest works regarding timelines and the nature of the universe. It's also kick ass hard sci-fi with a dose of Clive Barker-ish dark fantasy thrown in for good measure. If that book doesn't tweak your melon well then I don't know what will....
Sounds real smarty pants so you might have to believe it.
How about we chalk it all up to different perspectives on reality coming from each conscious mind? Makes more sense than multiverses theories and other clever, but utterly useless, ideas.
Well there's no such thing as a useless idea. That's just arrogance, but yes everyone take on reality is different because it's filtered through your mind and experience. The point of the thread was to examine reality in a bit more esoteric and theoretical manner....
Arrogance is a buzzword for attempting to counter positions without a stable defense.
Exploring the "theoretical and esoteric" sides of reality is the product of thinking entirely too much. Most might consider the nature of reality as being a cruel and heartless bitch. To a minority of naive and insipid minds; a fairy tale where everything always works out. Reality is simply what is real, not the trippy, air-headedness musings of believers, whom invented ideas which ultimately lead to the detriment of practical developments for the greater good of humanity.
Theorizing is, at least scientifically, a relatively safe way to think without deluding the frail human consciousness into mere thought alone having any effect on reality. Prayer, for instance, is a delusional state entered into when those who can't and won't accept the difficulty of a real situation need assistance. It is a condition reflex similar to a child's, where they ask of their divine parent for the proverbial milk to console their nervous fidgeting.
Reality is only one thing and one thing alone; the one state of being of all things comprised of matter and energy. It's not magical in the sense of the esoteric. Only science may rationally and sensibly explain the nature of reality outside the primary definition, since it requires proof for it's laws. Faith is immediately discounted, since it requires no proof, rendering it technically insane.
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turborobo wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide chris1976 wrote:
turborobo wrote:
moneygrip3030 wrote:
turborobo wrote:
moneygrip3030 wrote:
"The quantum mind–body problem refers to the philosophical discussions of the mind–body problem in the context of quantum mechanics. Since quantum mechanics involves quantum superpositions, which are not perceived by observers, some interpretations of quantum mechanics place conscious observers in a special position".
"The structure of the multiverse, the nature of each universe within it and the relationship between the various constituent universes, depend on the specific multiverse hypothesis considered. Multiverses have been hypothesized in cosmology, physics, astronomy, religion, philosophy, transpersonal psychology and fiction, particularly in science fiction and fantasy. In these contexts, parallel universes are also called "alternative universes", "quantum universes", "interpenetrating dimensions", "parallel dimensions", "parallel worlds", "alternative realities", "alternative timelines", and "dimensional planes," among others".
I for one believe time is not linear but that we as humans are limited in our ability to perceive it as anything but linear do to our biological limitations (4th dimensional brain). I am also a firm believer in the Multiverse theory. Every action creates an alternate time line which can be considered an alternate reality or universe. This is due to the nature of observation on reality and that every choice has an infinite amount of outcomes. For those interested in these topics I highly suggest reading Greg Bears "The City at the End of Time". While fiction I believe it to be one of the finest works regarding timelines and the nature of the universe. It's also kick ass hard sci-fi with a dose of Clive Barker-ish dark fantasy thrown in for good measure. If that book doesn't tweak your melon well then I don't know what will....
Sounds real smarty pants so you might have to believe it.
How about we chalk it all up to different perspectives on reality coming from each conscious mind? Makes more sense than multiverses theories and other clever, but utterly useless, ideas.
Well there's no such thing as a useless idea. That's just arrogance, but yes everyone take on reality is different because it's filtered through your mind and experience. The point of the thread was to examine reality in a bit more esoteric and theoretical manner....
Arrogance is a buzzword for attempting to counter positions without a stable defense.
Exploring the "theoretical and esoteric" sides of reality is the product of thinking entirely too much. Most might consider the nature of reality as being a cruel and heartless bitch. To a minority of naive and insipid minds; a fairy tale where everything always works out. Reality is simply what is real, not the trippy, air-headedness musings of believers, whom invented ideas which ultimately lead to the detriment of practical developments for the greater good of humanity.
Theorizing is, at least scientifically, a relatively safe way to think without deluding the frail human consciousness into mere thought alone having any effect on reality. Prayer, for instance, is a delusional state entered into when those who can't and won't accept the difficulty of a real situation need assistance. It is a condition reflex similar to a child's, where they ask of their divine parent for the proverbial milk to console their nervous fidgeting.
Reality is only one thing and one thing alone; the one state of being of all things comprised of matter and energy. It's not magical in the sense of the esoteric. Only science may rationally and sensibly explain the nature of reality outside the primary definition, since it requires proof for it's laws. Faith is immediately discounted, since it requires no proof, rendering it technically insane.
I always wonder whether people think Atheism is actually a religion, or if they are just trolling. Because if Atheism were a religion, then you could apply the same logic to just about anything.
"I'm of the fork religion"
"I'm of the water religion, I believe in water"
Since Atheists believe in things they can either observe, or that is reasonably explained with tested evidence. The limit is everything within physical reality. So people who think Atheism is a religion may as well just say that the belief in anything existing is a religion.
I'm not religious because I don't believe in a God. Just the same that I'm not religious for lacking the belief in ghosts, or the cosmic teapot.
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netdisorder wrote:
turborobo wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide chris1976 wrote:
turborobo wrote:
moneygrip3030 wrote:
turborobo wrote:
moneygrip3030 wrote:
"The quantum mind–body problem refers to the philosophical discussions of the mind–body problem in the context of quantum mechanics. Since quantum mechanics involves quantum superpositions, which are not perceived by observers, some interpretations of quantum mechanics place conscious observers in a special position".
"The structure of the multiverse, the nature of each universe within it and the relationship between the various constituent universes, depend on the specific multiverse hypothesis considered. Multiverses have been hypothesized in cosmology, physics, astronomy, religion, philosophy, transpersonal psychology and fiction, particularly in science fiction and fantasy. In these contexts, parallel universes are also called "alternative universes", "quantum universes", "interpenetrating dimensions", "parallel dimensions", "parallel worlds", "alternative realities", "alternative timelines", and "dimensional planes," among others".
I for one believe time is not linear but that we as humans are limited in our ability to perceive it as anything but linear do to our biological limitations (4th dimensional brain). I am also a firm believer in the Multiverse theory. Every action creates an alternate time line which can be considered an alternate reality or universe. This is due to the nature of observation on reality and that every choice has an infinite amount of outcomes. For those interested in these topics I highly suggest reading Greg Bears "The City at the End of Time". While fiction I believe it to be one of the finest works regarding timelines and the nature of the universe. It's also kick ass hard sci-fi with a dose of Clive Barker-ish dark fantasy thrown in for good measure. If that book doesn't tweak your melon well then I don't know what will....
Sounds real smarty pants so you might have to believe it.
How about we chalk it all up to different perspectives on reality coming from each conscious mind? Makes more sense than multiverses theories and other clever, but utterly useless, ideas.
Well there's no such thing as a useless idea. That's just arrogance, but yes everyone take on reality is different because it's filtered through your mind and experience. The point of the thread was to examine reality in a bit more esoteric and theoretical manner....
Arrogance is a buzzword for attempting to counter positions without a stable defense.
Exploring the "theoretical and esoteric" sides of reality is the product of thinking entirely too much. Most might consider the nature of reality as being a cruel and heartless bitch. To a minority of naive and insipid minds; a fairy tale where everything always works out. Reality is simply what is real, not the trippy, air-headedness musings of believers, whom invented ideas which ultimately lead to the detriment of practical developments for the greater good of humanity.
Theorizing is, at least scientifically, a relatively safe way to think without deluding the frail human consciousness into mere thought alone having any effect on reality. Prayer, for instance, is a delusional state entered into when those who can't and won't accept the difficulty of a real situation need assistance. It is a condition reflex similar to a child's, where they ask of their divine parent for the proverbial milk to console their nervous fidgeting.
Reality is only one thing and one thing alone; the one state of being of all things comprised of matter and energy. It's not magical in the sense of the esoteric. Only science may rationally and sensibly explain the nature of reality outside the primary definition, since it requires proof for it's laws. Faith is immediately discounted, since it requires no proof, rendering it technically insane.
I always wonder whether people think Atheism is actually a religion, or if they are just trolling. Because if Atheism were a religion, then you could apply the same logic to just about anything.
"I'm of the fork religion"
"I'm of the water religion, I believe in water"
Since Atheists believe in things they can either observe, or that is reasonably explained with tested evidence. The limit is everything within physical reality. So people who think Atheism is a religion may as well just say that the belief in anything existing is a religion.
I'm not religious because I don't believe in a God. Just the same that I'm not religious for lacking the belief in ghosts, or the cosmic teapot.
Shows what people know when they think anyone who dismisses religion entirely is still religious. But what can you do? Stupid parents and other influencing people make children irreversibly stupid leading into embarrassingly stupid adulthood.
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Vega is just a huge troll, always has been, always will be. Starts controversial threads to start shit and watches the hilarity ensue.
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Atheism IS a religion. It didn't used to be but it is now. I'm not a kid either, I'm 36. I wish I were a kid again. Anyway it's like this. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away atheism was not a religion. They were like "Oh, you believe? I don't. OK, no problem." Then one day they organized (the first step to becoming a religion.) They decided that anyone who believed in "Giant Pasta Monsters" or what not was a fool. Much like the Christians that came before them anyone who believed differently than they did was chastised.
A few more years passed and they were no longer content to just chastise people anymore. They began putting up anti-religious billboards in order to convert more people (just like so many other religions). They adopted a religious symbol (the atom) and began using it on their billboards (convert makers). Now all that missing is a god figure. In a manner of speaking science is the atheists god as they believe one day it will explain everything. In that manor it is all knowing. So now we do have a god figure. To sum it up...
Organization + conversion tactics + the damning of others beliefs + religious symbol + god figure = organized religion.
Atheists say they do not belong to a religion because to say they do would allow others to use the same tactics against atheists as atheists use against those of faith.
PS the picture is meant to make this point.
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chris1976 wrote:
Atheism IS a religion. It didn't used to be but it is now. I'm not a kid either, I'm 36. I wish I were a kid again. Anyway it's like this. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away atheism was not a religion. They were like "Oh, you believe? I don't. OK, no problem." Then one day they organized (the first step to becoming a religion.) They decided that anyone who believed in "Giant Pasta Monsters" or what not was a fool. Much like the Christians that came before them anyone who believed differently than they did was chastised.
A few more years passed and they were no longer content to just chastise people anymore. They began putting up anti-religious billboards in order to convert more people (just like so many other religions). They adopted a religious symbol (the atom) and began using it on their billboards (convert makers). Now all that missing is a god figure. In a manner of speaking science is the atheists god as they believe one day it will explain everything. In that manor it is all knowing. So now we do have a god figure. To sum it up...
Organization + conversion tactics + the damning of others beliefs + religious symbol + god figure = organized religion.
Atheists say they do not belong to a religion because to say they do would allow others to use the same tactics against atheists as atheists use against those of faith.
PS the picture is meant to make this point.
Do you confuse your own stories with things that have actually happened?
You can't call anti-religion religion based on what you believe being truth denied by those who don't see it that way, nor call Atheism a religion due to some group of people setting a wrong example of a religious structured organization trying to destroy another. Gods exist to one set of brains, whereas there are none to others. I like to see it that way. Do you think that thoughts have an immediate change on the real nature of spirituality? "I believe there are gods," and with that, John Doe the Believer caused spirituality to exist.
"I think there aren't gods, and no gods can exist due to there having been no proof established for the amount of time any religion has existed in history, since there has been absolutely no credible eye witnesses to the existence of things of a spiritual nature proving the particular structure of any given religion. I also think that words from a book spoken by an ordinary person placed on a soapbox aren't necessarily true, because good authority should know how to provide physical evidence to back up any claim," proclaimed Jack Whoever the Filthy, Godless Heretical Infidel Dick that We Believers Feel is a Dick Due to Our Perspective On Non-Believing People Arrogantly Placing Themselves Above Everything Else, Including Whichever God(s) Almighty We Fear Wrath from for Not Supplicating and Surrendering Ourselves Before Them.
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so, a philosphical questioned turned to religion again huh. sigh. . . I thought about making my case but as soon as religion got thrown in the ring I knew the blinders came out and everyone involved suddenly got tunnel vision. . . this is why I hate people. I think I'm going to spend the next 20 years locked in a laboratory creating a new race of dog people.
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At this point I'm about 50% convinced that Vega is a troll, 30% convinced that he is actually an automated software program that randomly links from a catalog of videos and articles, which means that 19% of me thinks he might actually be serious. 100% of me laughs at the bullshit that ensues in his wake.
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turborobo wrote:
chris1976 wrote:
Atheism IS a religion. It didn't used to be but it is now. I'm not a kid either, I'm 36. I wish I were a kid again. Anyway it's like this. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away atheism was not a religion. They were like "Oh, you believe? I don't. OK, no problem." Then one day they organized (the first step to becoming a religion.) They decided that anyone who believed in "Giant Pasta Monsters" or what not was a fool. Much like the Christians that came before them anyone who believed differently than they did was chastised.
A few more years passed and they were no longer content to just chastise people anymore. They began putting up anti-religious billboards in order to convert more people (just like so many other religions). They adopted a religious symbol (the atom) and began using it on their billboards (convert makers). Now all that missing is a god figure. In a manner of speaking science is the atheists god as they believe one day it will explain everything. In that manor it is all knowing. So now we do have a god figure. To sum it up...
Organization + conversion tactics + the damning of others beliefs + religious symbol + god figure = organized religion.
Atheists say they do not belong to a religion because to say they do would allow others to use the same tactics against atheists as atheists use against those of faith.
PS the picture is meant to make this point.
Do you confuse your own stories with things that have actually happened?
You can't call anti-religion religion based on what you believe being truth denied by those who don't see it that way, nor call Atheism a religion due to some group of people setting a wrong example of a religious structured organization trying to destroy another. Gods exist to one set of brains, whereas there are none to others. I like to see it that way. Do you think that thoughts have an immediate change on the real nature of spirituality? "I believe there are gods," and with that, John Doe the Believer caused spirituality to exist.
"I think there aren't gods, and no gods can exist due to there having been no proof established for the amount of time any religion has existed in history, since there has been absolutely no credible eye witnesses to the existence of things of a spiritual nature proving the particular structure of any given religion. I also think that words from a book spoken by an ordinary person placed on a soapbox aren't necessarily true, because good authority should know how to provide physical evidence to back up any claim," proclaimed Jack Whoever the Filthy, Godless Heretical Infidel Dick that We Believers Feel is a Dick Due to Our Perspective On Non-Believing People Arrogantly Placing Themselves Above Everything Else, Including Whichever God(s) Almighty We Fear Wrath from for Not Supplicating and Surrendering Ourselves Before Them.
Whoa! Out comes the cussing. Did I swear? No.
First let me state that I, myself am not a Christian, so attacking me based on their values has no effect. Second like it or not atheism now behaves like a religion. I have nothing against atheism itself, what I do have a problem with are militant atheists who are bound and determined they are going to spread their beliefs and convert everyone else. History has proven that no one group of people will ever succeed in converting the whole of humanity.
As I said I am not a Christian. So what am I? I keep that to myself because I don't feel the need to spread the word and attempt to convert others. The thing I respected most about atheists was the fact that they never knocked on my door trying to convert me. Though they still don't knock they sure do try to convert me every other way. When this doesn't work they point and laugh as if that will work. "Lets make fun of the believer. That will make a convert out of him!"
Growing up it was the Christians who wouldn't leave me alone. I actually had a pair try to drag me into a church so they could exercise the demon out of me. They hounded me relentlessly in the name of making me see the truth. As bad as they were they are nothing compared to today's atheist. They hound me relentlessly too trying to make me see the truth. You have a lot in common with the group you get along with the least. Perhaps that's why you don't get along.
If you simply told me you didn't believe I would have no problem with that what so ever. However you and other atheists are not content to not believe and let others believe. You attempt to drain the belief from them like some type of spiritual vampire and leave them empty inside. Then they can go forth and use that emptiness to create other spiritual vampires. You aren't helping to create a happier society, you're creating one that's even more miserable than it ever was. "Did you have a rough day? Well I just wanted you to know that when you die the Great Void is coming for you." You aren't happy so why should anyone else be, right? If they have something to believe in real or not they have something to get them through another day and that's just not fair because you don't.
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Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide chris1976 wrote:
turborobo wrote:
chris1976 wrote:
Atheism IS a religion. It didn't used to be but it is now. I'm not a kid either, I'm 36. I wish I were a kid again. Anyway it's like this. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away atheism was not a religion. They were like "Oh, you believe? I don't. OK, no problem." Then one day they organized (the first step to becoming a religion.) They decided that anyone who believed in "Giant Pasta Monsters" or what not was a fool. Much like the Christians that came before them anyone who believed differently than they did was chastised.
A few more years passed and they were no longer content to just chastise people anymore. They began putting up anti-religious billboards in order to convert more people (just like so many other religions). They adopted a religious symbol (the atom) and began using it on their billboards (convert makers). Now all that missing is a god figure. In a manner of speaking science is the atheists god as they believe one day it will explain everything. In that manor it is all knowing. So now we do have a god figure. To sum it up...
Organization + conversion tactics + the damning of others beliefs + religious symbol + god figure = organized religion.
Atheists say they do not belong to a religion because to say they do would allow others to use the same tactics against atheists as atheists use against those of faith.
PS the picture is meant to make this point.
Do you confuse your own stories with things that have actually happened?
You can't call anti-religion religion based on what you believe being truth denied by those who don't see it that way, nor call Atheism a religion due to some group of people setting a wrong example of a religious structured organization trying to destroy another. Gods exist to one set of brains, whereas there are none to others. I like to see it that way. Do you think that thoughts have an immediate change on the real nature of spirituality? "I believe there are gods," and with that, John Doe the Believer caused spirituality to exist.
"I think there aren't gods, and no gods can exist due to there having been no proof established for the amount of time any religion has existed in history, since there has been absolutely no credible eye witnesses to the existence of things of a spiritual nature proving the particular structure of any given religion. I also think that words from a book spoken by an ordinary person placed on a soapbox aren't necessarily true, because good authority should know how to provide physical evidence to back up any claim," proclaimed Jack Whoever the Filthy, Godless Heretical Infidel Dick that We Believers Feel is a Dick Due to Our Perspective On Non-Believing People Arrogantly Placing Themselves Above Everything Else, Including Whichever God(s) Almighty We Fear Wrath from for Not Supplicating and Surrendering Ourselves Before Them.
Whoa! Out comes the cussing. Did I swear? No.
First let me state that I, myself am not a Christian, so attacking me based on their values has no effect. Second like it or not atheism now behaves like a religion. I have nothing against atheism itself, what I do have a problem with are militant atheists who are bound and determined they are going to spread their beliefs and convert everyone else. History has proven that no one group of people will ever succeed in converting the whole of humanity.
As I said I am not a Christian. So what am I? I keep that to myself because I don't feel the need to spread the word and attempt to convert others. The thing I respected most about atheists was the fact that they never knocked on my door trying to convert me. Though they still don't knock they sure do try to convert me every other way. When this doesn't work they point and laugh as if that will work. "Lets make fun of the believer. That will make a convert out of him!"
Growing up it was the Christians who wouldn't leave me alone. I actually had a pair try to drag me into a church so they could exercise the demon out of me. They hounded me relentlessly in the name of making me see the truth. As bad as they were they are nothing compared to today's atheist. They hound me relentlessly too trying to make me see the truth. You have a lot in common with the group you get along with the least. Perhaps that's why you don't get along.
If you simply told me you didn't believe I would have no problem with that what so ever. However you and other atheists are not content to not believe and let others believe. You attempt to drain the belief from them like some type of spiritual vampire and leave them empty inside. Then they can go forth and use that emptiness to create other spiritual vampires. You aren't helping to create a happier society, you're creating one that's even more miserable than it ever was. "Did you have a rough day? Well I just wanted you to know that when you die the Great Void is coming for you." You aren't happy so why should anyone else be, right? If they have something to believe in real or not they have something to get them through another day and that's just not fair because you don't.
I don't believe. You can't change it. No one can. The believers won't change either. No one can change them. That's how it will remain for the rest of humanity's existence.
You want my honest opinion spoken directly? Well, here it goes. FUCK RELIGION! FUCK IT RIGHT IN THE EAR! IT'S BULLSHIT! OKAY?? FUCKING BULLSHIT!!! IT'S DANGEROUS!!! DANGEROUS BULLSHIT!!!
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in theory, it's everything, and nothing, and up, and down, and left, and right, and black, and white, and purple, and yellow... it's impossible to understand when narrow mindedness is part of human nature
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theYchromosome wrote:
At this point I'm about 50% convinced that Vega is a troll, 30% convinced that he is actually an automated software program that randomly links from a catalog of videos and articles, which means that 19% of me thinks he might actually be serious. 100% of me laughs at the bullshit that ensues in his wake.
hhahaha
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What is the nature of reality? 
