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Post Reply What do you guys prefer Dub or Sub?
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Posted 5/8/13 , edited 5/8/13

Shrapnel893


I never said a lot. I was saying that the Japanese cast can be just as bad as everyone claims dubs are. A "sub-par" sub (and dub) was the one for Elfen Lied (overall). Truthfully speaking, I won't be able to tell you because I don't speak the language (wouldn't be able to pick up on certain thinks specific to the language) thus I wouldn't be able to give you a ton of examples, or even a few. Not to say I won't be able to point one out, just that it'd be a lot harder without knowing the language being spoken. Get what I'm trying to say or?


You may not have said 'a lot' but at the same time it's not really a useful counter-argument unless it's some significant portion, like I said, every media has examples of poor quality but if the amount is a small minority it doesn't really matter in the overall quality impression.

It's the same as the vast majority of American cartoons having a good voice cast in English, sure there may be a few that end up not having a good original voice cast, but that doesn't really change that most American cartoons have perfectly decent voice casting, and some have really good voice acting.

My main problem is the argument that: 'Japan can make a poor voice cast as well', boils down to,
"Japan has a small minority of anime that may be poorly cast, so you aren't allowed to criticize English dubs of anime"
It's just not a useful argument and it never really holds up under scrutiny either because it's simply not that common regardless of the fact that it happens. The same as it's not that common to have an American cartoon with poor voice casting.

The occurrence of poor dubs are simply more common when you go between two different languages regardless.

Also when you hear poor voice acting, you don't need to know the language to know it's poor. A perfect example is in Code Geass, one of the episodes

[edit] The episode is Love Attack, ep 12 of R2, character was http://codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Miya_I._Hillmick[/edit],

has a celebrity guest voice a one off character (the voice was done by a gravure model IIRC), it's the episode with the school festival with the weird hats I believe in season one. You don't need to understand Japanese to hear her and notice the poor voice acting.
Likewise many doujin games and the like have varying levels of VA quality as most voicing is done by amateurs, and when you hear a character with poor voice acting, you know it.

The reason why you generally don't hear poor voice acting isn't because you don't understand the language, it's because it's very rare in professional, domestic produced stuff, just like in domestic cartoons in English, or video games originally in English.
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Posted 5/8/13 , edited 5/8/13

(This is going to be way longer than necessary since my thoughts aren't entirely in order).

I should start with this:

Anime is entertainment; if you're watching it and are entertained you're winning. I won't argue with that.

But I've talked about anime with several (not at all dumb) people who were oblivious to information being lost (or added) in translation. They just never thought about the role of language when it came to wordplay and figured words were words regardless. I don't mean to condescend or imply anything, it's just something I've run into before and would like people to be cognizant of if they aren't yet. Just like if I was oblivious to something like that, I'd like it pointed out to me as well.

I also don't -know- Japanese, so I don't know how big of a difference it actually makes. But the fact that it -could- be making a difference eats me from the inside out whenever I'm watching a dub of absolutely anything.

And I also simply enjoy experiencing something in the original sense in which it was made, whatever it is. So it's fair to say I do have a chip on my shoulder about subs versus dubs in anime, but I try to:

1) State it as a personal opinion,
2) Frame it as an argument, or
3) Keep it among friends who are used to my occasional rants about (realistically) inconsequential things.

I occasionally fail, but that's at least my goal.

The chip is also shrinking. It was really big chip once but I nibble at it when I'm peckish.

(My face when I eat a stale chip).


papagolfwhiskey wrote:



Sorry the part I've emboldened bothers me more than perhaps It should.

A) Do you have any reason to believe that anyone on this forum doesn't understand that dubs are an alteration of the original?
B) Even if they don't understand. What makes you feel obligated to educate them?

A) No more or less than anywhere else on the internet, I'd guess, and
B) It's the Golden Rule biting me in the ass, as it's been known to do before.

PS:

I don't mean to be condescending to dubs in my analogy, either. It takes a tremendous amount of skill to imitate the brushstrokes and other characteristics of a famous painter. I can fully respect that kind of work.

But I usually don't want to look at a copy if I could be looking at the original instead. And I've never been able to put myself in the boots of someone who would, although I understand all the rational reasons for it.

I just don't like dubs, and a little part of me wishes I could convince everyone else to agree. Even though it's stupid to think everyone would be happier if they did everything the way I personally like to do things.

And even though anime is entertainment, so if you're watching it and are entertained I shouldn't be arguing with it.

So I'll just repeat that to myself a lot and nibble on my chip some more.

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Posted 5/8/13
I prefer subbed anime. Sometimes, it is VERY ANNOYING when they talk too fast when you have to read subtitles.
However, when you watch dubbed, things get lost in translation. Even jokes.
Take kuroshitsuji.

Sebastien says a phrase, in English it's, "I'm one Hell of a butler."
Which doesn't really make sense because back in that time period, you can't publicly swear. ESPECIALLY if you are nothing more than the hired help.

In Japanese he says a phrase that has TWO different meanings in Japanese. The proper translation is, "I am a butler for life."
However, when he pronounces, IN JAPANESE the words are also, "I am a demon and a butler."

One GOOD thing about fan subs is that fans would explain the joke, early on. He is saying two things simultaneously, "I am a butler for life."
And "I am a demon and a butler." Which, quite frankly, is funnier than "I am one Hell of a butler."

Publicly saying, "I am one Hell of a butler" sounds arrogant, and it doesn't suit Sebastien somehow. But, "I am a butler for life." Has more of that Japanese modesty. The fact that he's also is saying, "I am a demon and a butler" adds to the humor.

I know I am probably over-analyzing. But my point is, when things get translated. Things get lost in translation. When things are properly translated. Esp. when people put out the extra effort to explain the joke. It comes off as very enjoyable.
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Posted 5/8/13
Here's some food for thought as you nibble. I know at least one anime fan who is functionally illiterate if it weren't for dubs they couldn't enjoy anime at all
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Posted 5/8/13
I have to say Sub is my preference, Dub seems to mismatch the nuances of the character's body language and emotions.
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Posted 5/8/13 , edited 5/8/13

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Here's some food for thought as you nibble. I know at least one anime fan who is functionally illiterate if it weren't for dubs they couldn't enjoy anime at all

Every response I've phrased to this has been unintentionally passive-aggressive. So I'll think on it a bit.

For now I just wanted to say I'm a nibbling.

*nomnomnomnom*

PS: Either way I think we're being tangential though: if I was ambiguous before, I respect the right of people to watch dubs if that's what floats their boat. I just consider my personal hatred of dubs to be equally sacrosanct.
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Posted 5/8/13 , edited 5/8/13

kardonius wrote:


Shrapnel893


I never said a lot. I was saying that the Japanese cast can be just as bad as everyone claims dubs are. A "sub-par" sub (and dub) was the one for Elfen Lied (overall). Truthfully speaking, I won't be able to tell you because I don't speak the language (wouldn't be able to pick up on certain thinks specific to the language) thus I wouldn't be able to give you a ton of examples, or even a few. Not to say I won't be able to point one out, just that it'd be a lot harder without knowing the language being spoken. Get what I'm trying to say or?


You may not have said 'a lot' but at the same time it's not really a useful counter-argument unless it's some significant portion, like I said, every media has examples of poor quality but if the amount is a small minority it doesn't really matter in the overall quality impression.

It's the same as the vast majority of American cartoons having a good voice cast in English, sure there may be a few that end up not having a good original voice cast, but that doesn't really change that most American cartoons have perfectly decent voice casting, and some have really good voice acting.

My main problem is the argument that: 'Japan can make a poor voice cast as well', boils down to,
"Japan has a small minority of anime that may be poorly cast, so you aren't allowed to criticize English dubs of anime"
It's just not a useful argument and it never really holds up under scrutiny either because it's simply not that common regardless of the fact that it happens. The same as it's not that common to have an American cartoon with poor voice casting.

The occurrence of poor dubs are simply more common when you go between two different languages regardless.

Also when you hear poor voice acting, you don't need to know the language to know it's poor. A perfect example is in Code Geass, one of the episodes

[edit] The episode is Love Attack, ep 12 of R2, character was http://codegeass.wikia.com/wiki/Miya_I._Hillmick[/edit],

has a celebrity guest voice a one off character (the voice was done by a gravure model IIRC), it's the episode with the school festival with the weird hats I believe in season one. You don't need to understand Japanese to hear her and notice the poor voice acting.
Likewise many doujin games and the like have varying levels of VA quality as most voicing is done by amateurs, and when you hear a character with poor voice acting, you know it.

The reason why you generally don't hear poor voice acting isn't because you don't understand the language, it's because it's very rare in professional, domestic produced stuff, just like in domestic cartoons in English, or video games originally in English.


For the record, I'm not trying to argue, I prefer discussions instead, you know?. I also never said "you aren't allowed to criticize English dubs of anime". I get perfectly well what you're saying, but it wasn't what I was talking about. All in all, not knowing the language still hampers your ability to point out the flaws within it, along with other factors (like you said, the rarity of poor voice acting in professionally produced domestic material) , and I was just pointing out to people who are all saying "dubs suck because [insert reason here]" should also realize that the original could also be bad for the same reasons (or any show they watch with subtitles). Thanks for the information, though, I appreciate your knowledge.




Insomnist wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Here's some food for thought as you nibble. I know at least one anime fan who is functionally illiterate if it weren't for dubs they couldn't enjoy anime at all

Every response I've phrased to this has been unintentionally passive-aggressive. So I'll think on it a bit.

For now I just wanted to say I'm a nibbling.

*nomnomnomnom*

PS: Either way I think we're being tangential though: if I was ambiguous before, I respect the right of people to watch dubs if that's what floats their boat. I just consider my personal hatred of dubs to be equally sacrosanct.


I don't get how people can "hate" something. Then again, I don't dislike anything so that probably plays a part in my thinking process.

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Posted 5/8/13 , edited 5/8/13

Shrapnel893 wrote:


Insomnist wrote:

PS: Either way I think we're being tangential though: if I was ambiguous before, I respect the right of people to watch dubs if that's what floats their boat. I just consider my personal hatred of dubs to be equally sacrosanct.

I don't get how people can "hate" something. Then again, I don't dislike anything so that probably plays a part in my thinking process.

I think we hate things that offer no personal benefit while simultaneously causing extreme aggravation. And once it's instilled it's hard to dislodge, even if the aggravation is no longer happening.

All in all it's much like a candiru after it's swum up your urethra. And much like a candiru that's swum up your urethra, you love talking about it even when you probably shouldn't. Like while people are eating.

*nomnomnomnom*
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Posted 5/8/13 , edited 5/8/13

Insomnist wrote:


Shrapnel893 wrote:


Insomnist wrote:

PS: Either way I think we're being tangential though: if I was ambiguous before, I respect the right of people to watch dubs if that's what floats their boat. I just consider my personal hatred of dubs to be equally sacrosanct.

I don't get how people can "hate" something. Then again, I don't dislike anything so that probably plays a part in my thinking process.

I think we hate things that offer no personal benefit while simultaneously causing extreme aggravation. And once it's instilled it's hard to dislodge, even if the aggravation is no longer happening.

All in all it's much like a candiru after it's swum up your urethra. And much like a candiru that's swum up your urethra, you love talking about it even when you probably shouldn't. Like while people are eating.

*nomnomnomnom*


I just think happy thoughts and rainbows, and poof, no hate.
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Posted 5/8/13
Dubs are a rewrite, not a translation. Subs aren't always literal, but are much closer to the source. Unless I a just feeling too lazy to read, I prefer subs.
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Posted 5/8/13
I prefer subbed anime yet once in awhile you find that gem of a dub that makes the sub obsolete in my opinion.
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Posted 5/8/13
Its mostly subs for me but for some anime like Dragonball Z its dub.
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Posted 5/8/13 , edited 5/9/13

yinfire wrote:

I prefer subbed anime. Sometimes, it is VERY ANNOYING when they talk too fast when you have to read subtitles.
However, when you watch dubbed, things get lost in translation. Even jokes.
Take kuroshitsuji.


I know I am probably over-analyzing. But my point is, when things get translated. Things get lost in translation. When things are properly translated. Esp. when people put out the extra effort to explain the joke. It comes off as very enjoyable.

Not specifically anime related, but I remember reading about a particular haiku which has been translated 42 different times in 42 different ways to try and capture the depth of wordplay it had going on in English.

And that was just one tiny little haiku about a frog. (If I remember correctly).

I realize subs can't come close to that either, but it's definitely part of my motivation in personally preferring them.

Edit:


Insomnist wrote:

I think we hate things that offer no personal benefit while simultaneously causing extreme aggravation.

Nobody's going to tell me my definition for hating things shouldn't apply to dubs?

I figured that'd be a given, I even made my reply into a mot so I'd be ready in advance. You guys are killing me here!
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Posted 5/9/13
To me it really is ultimately an irrelevant question.

It just comes down to how good is the dubbing of each language. If one is bad, then its bad, if one is good, then it is good. I have seen some amazing english dubbing and a few japanese dubbing that made me want to mute the thing. Again it just all depends on what are you willing to tolerate listening to. Having said that, I will say though that I prefer something to be in my own language if possible. Its hard for me to relate to a character if what they are saying sounds gibberish to me. That doesn't mean japanese dialogue hasn't touched, its done so multiple times. I just find it easier when it is in my own language. Again any language can pull off a series. It just depends who is willing to put the heart and soul into it.
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Posted 5/9/13
English dub. A lot of english dubs are good now. And I prefer to watch my cartoons/anime than read them. Otherwise I'll just get a manga. Some Japanese voices are irritating to the ears, especially when they are high pitched...
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