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Post Reply Political parties in the US?
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21 / M / The Bebop
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Posted 8/7/14
If I had to identify myself politically,i'd say i'm a democrat
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27 / F
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Posted 8/7/14
Communist.
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51 / M / Hawai'i
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Posted 8/7/14

quote]BlueOni wrote:


AniMatsuri wrote:

Single payer systems in other countries are making them go broke...


Which other countries?
Pick one. Most countries employ some sort of single payer system that we're told is so much better than the healthcare system we used to have.



...and there's a lot of rationing going with bureaucrats deciding who gets treatment.


Which bureaucrats are making such decisions, and where?
That's pretty much what it boils down to. Some faceless unelected group that write the regulations that say your too: old, young, sick, & etc. to deserve treatment. You think fighting with insurance companies are pain when trying to get care? Try fighting with "city hall".


Want to see the future of single payer system? Just like look at the messed up VA healthcare that's been that way for decades.


Are the logistical and managerial schema you're pointing to the only ones a single payer system in the US could assume?
It's pretty much where most single payer schemes end up going. Vets make up only a small % of the population and things are going bad so, of course we need to expand this type of system on over 300 million in the rest of the U.S.?
baofu 
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33 / M / New Jersey
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Posted 8/7/14 , edited 8/7/14

AniMatsuri wrote:

Pick one. Most countries employ some sort of single payer system that we're told is so much better than the healthcare system we used to have.


Let's see...Australia and Canada came out of the financial crisis in great shape, Britain's doing fine, Russia's (arguably) doing alright, China's a rising superpower...


That's pretty much what it boils down to. Some faceless unelected group that write the regulations that say your too: old, young, sick, & etc. to deserve treatment. You think fighting with insurance companies are pain when trying to get care? Try fighting with "city hall".


Those "bureaucrats" you keep railing on about? Aetna/BCBS/whichever company you care to name has those guys working for them too. The only difference is they're not accountable to their customers, just to their shareholders. "City hall" is still accountable to the folks who elected them in.


It's pretty much where most single payer schemes end up going. Vets make up only a small % of the population and things are going bad so, of course we need to expand this type of system on over 300 million in the rest of the U.S.?


The VA's problems have all been because of horrible mismanagement and being unprepared to take in all the vets from the Iraq and Afghanistan, not because it's a terrible idea in and of itself. Can Robert McDonald turn it around? I think that bears watching.
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Posted 8/7/14 , edited 8/7/14

AniMatsuri wrote:

Pick one. Most countries employ some sort of single payer system that we're told is so much better than the healthcare system we used to have.


I think you're confusing single-payer systems with systems which provide universal healthcare in general. For instance, Australia's system is single payer while Germany's system is multi-payer. Let's have a tour of some countries with universal healthcare and compare their total health expenditures as a proportion of their GDPs (PPP).

Denmark - 11.2%
Finland - 9.1%
Sweden - 9.6%
Germany - 11.3%
France - 11.7%
Australia - 9.1%
Canada - 10.9%
United States - 17.9%

See what I'm getting at when I say that single-payer is cheaper? It's just shy of half the cost of the USA's private market system, and what's more it's either as cheap or cheaper than multi-payer. Would you rather buy an item of poorer quality for $5, or an item of higher quality for $2.75? That's the question you're ultimately left to ask yourself, and so far you've been gunning for the former.

Source of all data: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS


That's pretty much what it boils down to. Some faceless unelected group that write the regulations that say your too: old, young, sick, & etc. to deserve treatment. You think fighting with insurance companies are pain when trying to get care? Try fighting with "city hall".


If that's pretty much what it boils down to then you'll have ample examples to choose from. I'm only asking for one.


It's pretty much where most single payer schemes end up going. Vets make up only a small % of the population and things are going bad so, of course we need to expand this type of system on over 300 million in the rest of the U.S.?


Part of the problem the Veteran's Health Administration is facing is that it's too centralized to be able to effectively manage as much as it is expected to with the level of scrutiny which is required. Another part of the problem is that people have been falsifying data to make their figures fall into compliance with centrally established improvement goals, and the system is so big and centralized that people doing that have previously been difficult to spot.

A single payer system in the US could just as easily manifest itself as a decentralized one which is primarily managed and directed at the state and municipal levels. In effect, imagine having 50 equivalents of the Office of Management, each charged only with overseeing a single state's healthcare system administrators.
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51 / M / Hawai'i
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Posted 8/7/14

baofu wrote:


AniMatsuri wrote:

Pick one. Most countries employ some sort of single payer system that we're told is so much better than the healthcare system we used to have.


Let's see...Australia and Canada came out of the financial crisis in great shape, Britain's doing fine, Russia's (arguably) doing alright, China's a rising superpower...
They are edging away from the single payer system that the pols here are pushing us into. Britain's not doing fine if you're one of those waiting for months to get treatment(same goes for Canada). Economically and militarily, China's a rising power only after losing up and becoming more capitalistic. However, I don't see articles raving about their healthcare system.



That's pretty much what it boils down to. Some faceless unelected group that write the regulations that say your too: old, young, sick, & etc. to deserve treatment. You think fighting with insurance companies are pain when trying to get care? Try fighting with "city hall".


Those "bureaucrats" you keep railing on about? Aetna/BCBS/whichever company you care to name has those guys working for them too. The only difference is they're not accountable to their customers, just to their shareholders. "City hall" is still accountable to the folks who elected them in.
You can name companies but I dare you to name all the departments and who's in them in this ever expanding government.



It's pretty much where most single payer schemes end up going. Vets make up only a small % of the population and things are going bad so, of course we need to expand this type of system on over 300 million in the rest of the U.S.?


The VA's problems have all been because of horrible mismanagement and being unprepared to take in all the vets from the Iraq and Afghanistan, not because it's a terrible idea in and of itself. Can Robert McDonald turn it around? I think that bears watching.

The VA's had problems way before vets started coming back from the these recent wars. This just magnified what was already there.
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Posted 1/22/15
Kind of Liberal Democrat. But I'm not an obnoxious, overly liberal person who loves everything my party does. However, I still like Republicans less than I like the idiots who're part of the Democrat and Liberal camp.
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18 / F / Hell
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Posted 1/31/15
None.
I hate politics.
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27 / M
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Posted 4/18/15
Independent.
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24 / M
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Posted 4/18/15
I like some of the Republican views so I tend to consider myself one. But lately I have been having doubts about it. It's views are unchanging which is leading to the fact it's dying. I don't like a lot of the Democratic views but if it benefits my country more then I feel that it's the best way to go regardless if it's not the party I favor.

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38 / M / Kansas
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Posted 4/18/15 , edited 4/18/15
If you look closely, the Republicans and Democrats look a lot alike these days. And the look is not a flattering one. Lobbyists represent banks, insurance companies, agricultural, pharmaceutical... all manner of corporate "special interests". This is where the true power lies in Washington. Honestly, I would prefer any politician who was a man or woman of strong conviction over one that could be bought and paid for, even were their convictions in opposition to my own.

Oh, and to anyone who thinks Green party or Libertarian is an option. If the Green party was in charge they'd tax oxygen. If the Libertarians were in charge, corporations would completely replace the government. Seriously, both those guys are bats*** crazy.
Posted 4/19/15 , edited 4/19/15
I think i signed up for Green party or w/e it was once upon a time, although i only chose it due to not really giving a care about Demos/Repubs.
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27 / M
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Posted 4/19/15 , edited 4/19/15
I refuse to staunchly support any party.

We must remember that we are making choices to benefit the country. Therefore, we must keep this goal in mind constantly when dealing with laws and politics.

I always disliked how the parties basically attack each other through voting and their lobbying and other silly schemes. They often don't do things to benefit the country but to win against other parties. The parties will be the death of this nation. They are wasteful, short-sighted, and too selfish.
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24 / M / San Francisco Bay...
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Posted 4/19/15
Non-partisan as a matter of principle; but will almost surely agree more with Democrats over Republicans on most key issues.
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24 / M
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Posted 4/19/15

Morbidhanson wrote:

I refuse to staunchly support any party.

We must remember that we are making choices to benefit the country. Therefore, we must keep this goal in mind constantly when dealing with laws and politics.

I always disliked how the parties basically attack each other through voting and their lobbying and other silly schemes. They often don't do things to benefit the country but to win against other parties. The parties will be the death of this nation. They are wasteful, short-sighted, and too selfish.


The founding fathers of America feared exactly this. Love of party before love of country.
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