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Post Reply RWBY (Volume 1, 2, and 3)
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24 / M / Shadows of Califo...
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Posted 8/23/16 , edited 8/23/16

Colonel_Gerdauf wrote:
I honestly do not believe that Cinder is as simple as you are explaining her. If it was a cut close case, then perhaps you may have a point. There are simply too many loose stings and hanging questions, some deliberately planted by RT, about Cinder's actions for me to even entertain this notion.


Going to requote something I wrote from above since it's basically the same thing.


tasti_man_LH wrote:That most of the discussion around Cinder is what she MIGHT do and what she MIGHT be. Because the show has given us very little. And what they have shown is...barely much.

Even though we're 3 volumes in and about to enter the 4th.

And I frankly don't buy the Anarchist theory either. Since she flat out stated herself that she wants to be the one on top running things, I doubt she wants to tear everything down for the sake of chaos. And on top of all of it, it definitely seems like her goals are personal to her and not because she wants to prove a point.

The Joker she is not.



As for the Grimm, we have never seen them attack outside the premises of huntsman, huntresses and students in training, so there might be some justification for their "incompetence".


They have a whole professional field devoted to fighting Grimm and we're told over and over throughout the show how dangerous are...and the way how they're depicted, it makes the Hunters seem like glorified pest control.


The fact that they casually ignore Weiss and Blake while they are on a discussion is a bit annoying, but that is already an entrenched trope.


A trope that not only needs to die in a fire in the trash where it belongs, but a trope that was actually used incorrectly.

When you stop to have a discussion in the middle of a monster attack, it's usually played up for laughs. Here...I'm pretty sure it wasn't RT's intent to have us laughing at that particular scene.


With how emotional the fans got over the events involving Adam in the former Beacon cafeteria, I doubt that the sight of Grimm openly tearing the citizens to pieces would be such a bright idea.


It would solidify the stakes and tensions if they did.

It would allow me to buy the idea of the Grimm being an actual threat.
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Posted 8/24/16 , edited 8/24/16





They weren't negated by her death, they served to show her character and the weight she was being asked to carry. She chose to give up a potentially normal but fulfilling life with Jaune twice over actually. Once by choosing to be become the next Fall maiden, which in a sense carried the same potential death sentence just on a mental level; and secondly by choosing to go after Cinder to try to save the day (this sounds condescending but its the only way I can think of to describe it but I get why she went back and respect it).

That's really murky water honestly, I really get both sides on this point though I will point out that her death also served to push the idea that even the mighty fall and that the RWBY world isn't a safe place. I think from a certain vantage point her story did get a sort of resolution in that she embraced her role as a so called "hero" and met a hero's end because of it; especially considering one aspect of her story has been her always feeling burdened by being so skilled and certain expectations being placed on her to be this great hero. That being said the idea of her death being used to push Jaune forward really does irk me.




What they came up with imo was a fitting ending to him, not to mention potentially setting things up for Neo due to what happened.

And yet it fits for a character like him, its not really mood whiplash because he's always been more of a comedic slanted character. Even when he was being racist at the Faunus rally, it was given a comedic slant, because that's how that character is.




I have to assume that her back story will eventually come out, and honestly I don't mind sitting back and waiting for it. She's already defying/avoiding several female villain cliches/stereotypes, which is a good foundation for me.

She's been shown as having issues with authorities and political structures, her entire speech after Penny's death was revolving around that. I personally see her as more of a revolutionist, but I've seen others put forth anarchist too so meh. She's been on the side of being powerless against the political structures and corruptness therein, thus she's aiming to tear it down and give take away the power from those that misuse it.

Rather than The Joker (specifically Heath Ledger's) [anarchist], she's more like Elliot (if you've gotten to see Mr. Robot) [revolutionist].




The story from the way its going needed the shift, and honestly it opens the door to them tackling more mature subjects (legit mature, not the b.s. peddled by certain things as mature; ie sex, nudity, gore, etc). Like now they have the opportunity to tackle Yang having to recover from losing her arm and for now Blake. Blake and Yang talking, having words, and mending their relationship (either platonic or romantic) being another thing opened by how the story developed; then there's the entire Blake and Adam situation which is going into emotionally & physically abusive relationships; and Ruby having to move past friends dying and her maintaining her positive outlook.

Its easy enough to assume that violence and gore were happening outside of what we were seeing, that we were getting the view of the non-gorefest side of things. And I'd much rather they stick with that.

Attack on Titan shows multiple times people being eaten, having limbs bitten off, and corpses after the fact. I don't want that kind of thing in RWBY and it wouldn't fit with the style of the show. AoT after a while easily slips into the "Darkness Induced Audience Apathy" where you stop caring, I don't want that for RWBY.

The scene with Yang was one big contained event in a plethora of other events and the silhouette was a great way to do it to avoid going edgelord territory, while also showing how much danger is out there. What you're suggesting however would just send it into the aforementioned "Darkness Induced Audience Apathy" territory, because it'd be everywhere instead of in one contained event. I'd rather have the "contained meaningful darkness" than the "abundant shock value darkness".
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24 / M / Shadows of Califo...
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Posted 8/26/16 , edited 8/26/16
Crimson, it's at this point where I start to wonder if you actually read my post at all since now it's feeling like you skimmed over what I wrote without noticing any of the finer details


xCrimsonEX wrote:
That's really murky water honestly, I really get both sides on this point though I will point out that her death also served to push the idea that even the mighty fall and that the RWBY world isn't a safe place. I think from a certain vantage point her story did get a sort of resolution in that she embraced her role as a so called "hero" and met a hero's end because of it; especially considering one aspect of her story has been her always feeling burdened by being so skilled and certain expectations being placed on her to be this great hero.


There was nothing at all heroic about Pyhrra's final fight.

Not only did it not like a fair fight: it looked as if Pyhrra could barely give Cinder a challenge at all. Not once does Pyhrra give Cinder a good blow to cause a serious injury to cause Cinder any worry. And it ends with Cinder immolating Pyhrra until she's ash, just to add insult to death, so there can't be a body to be buried.

That's not a "heroic" death. That was a Mortal Kombat-esque Fatality. You know, the kind used to humiliate your opponent after they've lost?

Nothing heroic about it. More like a sheep trying to fight a bloodthirsty wolf, thinking that it can win.


That being said the idea of her death being used to push Jaune forward really does irk me.


At least we agree on that.

Speaking of, if Shane Newville's "Open Letter" was any indication, it was the original plan to have Jaune be the the witness to Pyhrra's death and spurring him on to vengeance against Cinder...needless to say, what we got was at least better then that.


I have to assume that her back story will eventually come out, and honestly I don't mind sitting back and waiting for it. She's already defying/avoiding several female villain cliches/stereotypes, which is a good foundation for me.


A foundation that has literally nothing else to support it because RT has decided not to tell us within 3 seasons.

And again, you're betting on speculation and theories that might not even come true.


She's been shown as having issues with authorities and political structures, her entire speech after Penny's death was revolving around that. I personally see her as more of a revolutionist, but I've seen others put forth anarchist too so meh. She's been on the side of being powerless against the political structures and corruptness therein, thus she's aiming to tear it down and give take away the power from those that misuse it.


"Revolutionist" would suggest that she's out to do what she wants for the people. Or that she's doing it for some cause bigger then herself. However, it sounds more and more like she's out for herself. She does not care what the Faunus want, we have been given nothing to suggest there is any normal humans who considers life in the various kingdoms to be crappy. It seems apparent that she's in for destroying the kingdoms all for power to herself, and that there's no other higher goal aside from being a power-hungry warlord.

So that leaves the Grimm? I wouldn't really call helping out the Grimm a "revolution". More like "assisted genocide". And the show has made it clear that yes, the Grimm are evil, and want nothing more to eliminate humanity. Which last I check...that's pretty freaking evil.

And yes, the ending suggested that she's actually working for Salem...but even then, everything suggests that she's doing it because she's getting something out of toppling the kingdoms.


The story from the way its going needed the shift,


That's not the point I'm getting at. Unless if I'm still not clear:

It's not that I object to them going dark, or that I thought them going dark came from nowhere. It's that I think they executed going dark BADLY:


-They made the wrong decision going as dark as they did.

-That the results of them going dark are VERY half-assed.


There's a difference.


Attack on Titan shows multiple times people being eaten, having limbs bitten off, and corpses after the fact. I don't want that kind of thing in RWBY and it wouldn't fit with the style of the show. AoT after a while easily slips into the "Darkness Induced Audience Apathy" where you stop caring, I don't want that for RWBY.

The scene with Yang was one big contained event in a plethora of other events and the silhouette was a great way to do it to avoid going edgelord territory, while also showing how much danger is out there. What you're suggesting however would just send it into the aforementioned "Darkness Induced Audience Apathy" territory, because it'd be everywhere instead of in one contained event. I'd rather have the "contained meaningful darkness" than the "abundant shock value darkness".


...you didn't read what I put up.


Back to Attack on Titan, the thing about that show is that there honestly isn't that much on-screen gore. Anything that was there was either implied or obscured, or the camera cuts away at the last moment. Why? Because an audience member's imagination is far more vivid and visceral then what any artwork an animator can put up. It works.


You know, if you're confused about what I'm writing about, you can always ask for me to clarify.
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30 / M / The Abyss of Time
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Posted 8/26/16 , edited 8/26/16

tasti_man_LH wrote:

Crimson, it's at this point where I start to wonder if you actually read my post at all since now it's feeling like you skimmed over what I wrote without noticing any of the finer details


And yet I responded directly to what I read as I read it.




"Fighting against a foe you know will be possibly be impossible to take down in the hopes of stopping their plans, even with your life on the line" = incredibly heroic, its idea in 90% of stories.

Undoubtedly we watched two different fights, because while Pyrrha wasn't completely overpowering Cinder she also wasn't getting trounced either. If it wasn't for the trick arrow the fight could've gone on for a while more since they were about on par w/ Cinder having a slight advantage.

Or a Viking funeral where the body is burned as its sent off with honor.

A sheep would be someone like Jaune, not Pyrrha.




A foundation that has literally nothing else to support it because RT has decided not to tell us within 3 seasons.

And again, you're betting on speculation and theories that might not even come true.


The "foundation" doesn't need a support, its the base of what is built on top of it; hence her defying/avoiding multiple female and female villain cliches/stereotypes/tropes serves as enough of a reason for her to have some amount of respect. Everything that's added to that only serves as more reasons that back it up. She's not one of the MC's, hell she's not even really the true big bad so ofc her story is going to be "breadcrumbed" out to us. She also serves as a good counter to Pyrrha, Cinder was seemingly born at the bottom and sought power to get away from that; while Pyrrha was born with power and sought to be normal.

The overall story is more about the RWBY team and their maturation/journey; its the same reason Roman/Neo/Adam/Emerald/Mercury/Salem also haven't been elaborated on. Now that the story is seemingly going into more heavy areas where perspectives matter, the door for some of these is opened.

As for the defying/avoiding female villain stereotypes/cliches/tropes aspect, which what I assume you're saying is "based on speculation", no its based on things in the actual show as presented.





A revolutionist is someone who wants to change the world — not just sitting around talking about it, but actually doing something to bring about change.
- Google search

There's plenty shown that implies she wants to create a change in the world and she definitely has done something to cause change to happen, thus she already technically fits the definition for "revolutionist". Her reasons for wanting power and to be feared haven't been elaborated on, so it could be that she's felt what its like to be powerless and to be in constant fear by those above you; thus her seeking power and wanting to make those seeing themselves as better than others have fear of her. Not out of cheap selfishness but because she never wants to be a victim again, also trying to get others to free themselves as well. I think Emerald would disagree on the aspect of whether life in other areas is "crappy" or not and possibly even Mercury. As for people outside of that, we haven't really seen "normal" people of the other kingdoms and honestly even if we did who's to say the ones we saw weren't the section unaffected by the "underside" of certain political types.




That's not the point I'm getting at. Unless if I'm still not clear:

It's not that I object to them going dark, or that I thought them going dark came from nowhere. It's that I think they executed going dark BADLY:


I'll break this down to individual responses, then come back to this ^:


-They made the wrong decision going as dark as they did.


They eased into a darker tone which they needed for certain story routes to open.


-That the results of them going dark are VERY half-assed.

They didn't come across as half-assed, they came across as not going into edgelord territory. Instead of doing whatever "dark" you're trying to explain, they went with a psychological/ideological/philosophical aspects; which is a better fit for RWBY.


There's a difference.


You seem to see it as dark or not dark, whereas this is a grey territory; the issue isn't with the writing then since the way they handled it fits with RWBY's general style.


...you didn't read what I put up.



Back to Attack on Titan, the thing about that show is that there honestly isn't that much on-screen gore. Anything that was there was either implied or obscured, or the camera cuts away at the last moment. Why? Because an audience member's imagination is far more vivid and visceral then what any artwork an animator can put up. It works.


You know, if you're confused about what I'm writing about, you can always ask for me to clarify.


The one not reading is you:

Attack on Titan shows multiple times people being eaten, having limbs bitten off, and corpses after the fact.
You specifically say how it doesn't have "much on-screen gore" and you're wrong or you have a really skewed idea of gore. They did a shade of grey instead of going full-throttle dark, which I see as a good thing since they aren't AoT and shouldn't try to be. So far RWBY so good it defies several usual anime tropes/cliches (especially in regards to female characters), this is just another one where they chose to avoid going the "edgelord fantasy" route. Not to mention its not that hard to imagine that there may be deaths happening off-screen in RWBY as well, they just don't capitalize on it instead leaving it as something that viewers can think for themselves instead pushing it into people that don't want to see it's faces (like they do in AoT).
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Posted 26 days ago
Alright, sorry for derailing discussion, but has anyone here been watching RWBY Chibi?

All the skits are so cute and funny ^_^
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30 / M / The Abyss of Time
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Posted 26 days ago , edited 26 days ago

jkphantom wrote:

Alright, sorry for derailing discussion, but has anyone here been watching RWBY Chibi?

All the skits are so cute and funny ^_^


Yup! I don't think its actually possible for me to not watch/read anything RWBY-related xD I'm actually really hyped cause I saw who shows up in ep. 18
.
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Posted 25 days ago

xCrimsonEX wrote:


jkphantom wrote:

Alright, sorry for derailing discussion, but has anyone here been watching RWBY Chibi?

All the skits are so cute and funny ^_^


Yup! I don't think its actually possible for me to not watch/read anything RWBY-related xD I'm actually really hyped cause I saw who shows up in ep. 18
.


wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. I can't wait for that.
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Posted 25 days ago
I haven't been watching RWBY chibi it's the only thing im not on top of thats RWBY related....Who here gonna buy RWBY books once viz publishes them?!
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Posted 25 days ago

xCrimsonEX wrote:
Yup! I don't think its actually possible for me to not watch/read anything RWBY-related xD I'm actually really hyped cause I saw who shows up in ep. 18
.


I am not going to spoil anything about that particular skit (maybe a mini-spoiler below), but I will say that the particular skit was hilariously stupid.


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Posted 19 days ago

Colonel_Gerdauf wrote:

I am not going to spoil anything about that particular skit (maybe a mini-spoiler below), but I will say that the particular skit was hilariously stupid.




Saw it and its fitting for Chibi, I actually liked the skit myself.
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Posted 18 days ago , edited 18 days ago

xCrimsonEX wrote:
Saw it and its fitting for Chibi, I actually liked the skit myself.

Cinder Fall ends up being a terrible (almost Ruby-level) liar.
Emerald Sustrai seems to be the only remotely sane person of the room.
Mercury Black certainly gets the gold medal for The Worst Timing Ever (a joke on Vol.3 Ch.8, I assume).
Ruby Rose cannot see the obvious in front of her (Which actually happened multiple times, particular on Vol.2 Ch.2).
Nora Valkyrie cannot shut up for a total of ten seconds (a running gag on the original series).

Yep, a nice skit and good episode overall. The next one though (Ep.19) is a bit weird for my liking IMO.
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Posted 18 days ago

Colonel_Gerdauf wrote:


I was actually more talking about the scenario being "silly-fied" (totally think that should be a word now) to fit with Chibi's light-hearted and comedic tone. In the main series Cinder is a high tier manipulator that caused large/huge amounts of destruction vs Chibi where she's a playful schemer that has no real chance of succeeding.
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Posted 17 days ago

xCrimsonEX wrote:
I was actually more talking about the scenario being "silly-fied" (totally think that should be a word now) to fit with Chibi's light-hearted and comedic tone. In the main series Cinder is a high tier manipulator that caused large/huge amounts of destruction vs Chibi where she's a playful schemer that has no real chance of succeeding.


Yep, I can see that, particularly with Weiss and Nora. That does make you wonder how the remaining characters will be portrayed, such as Roman, Neo, Qrow, Nightclub Staff, Beacon Staff, Ironwood, and Penny.
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Posted 14 days ago , edited 14 days ago

Colonel_Gerdauf wrote:

Yep, I can see that, particularly with Weiss and Nora. That does make you wonder how the remaining characters will be portrayed, such as Roman, Neo, Qrow, Nightclub Staff, Beacon Staff, Ironwood, and Penny.


You'd just need to imagine the sillier version of how they're characters are done. Roman is probably the easiest to imagine since he was already close to the comedic tone villainy anyway.
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Posted 13 days ago , edited 13 days ago
THE GREAT ROMAN IS GONNA SHOW UP IN RWBY CHIBI



https://twitter.com/graymartigan/status/776777851873861632
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