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Firearm Legislation in the United States
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20 / M / Delaware
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Posted 3/31/13

lordseth23 wrote:


tehstud wrote:

lol, you can't cure mental disorders, merely treat or stabilize them.


Then we treat or stabilize them until there is a way to prevent genetic mutations.


No, again you are mistaken. One, it is still largely unknown what causes most mental disorders. Two, the causes vary for each individual; there is no panacea for a mental disorder. Three, genetics are but a single factor that can contribute to the development of a mental disorder. If you do not know, they have been generalized into three categories: biological, psychological, and environmental. Genetic mutations are but a factor of the larger, broader group, biological. And before you start typing, ''Then we need to focus on the biological, psychological and environmental factors that cause these mental illnesses.'' I ask that you read the third sentence, except this time, read for comprehension.
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Posted 3/31/13

tehstud wrote:

No, again you are mistaken. One, it is still largely unknown what causes most mental disorders. Two, the causes vary for each individual; there is no panacea for a mental disorder. Three, genetics are but a single factor that can contribute to the development of a mental disorder. If you do not know, they have been generalized into three categories: biological, psychological, and environmental. Genetic mutations are but a factor of the larger, broader group, biological. And before you start typing, ''Then we need to focus on the biological, psychological and environmental factors that cause these mental illnesses.'' I ask that you read the third sentence, except this time, read for comprehension.


Then we need to find out what the causes are for all mental disorders so we can find a way to prevent them.
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Posted 3/31/13 , edited 3/31/13

lordseth23 wrote:


tehstud wrote:

No, again you are mistaken. One, it is still largely unknown what causes most mental disorders. Two, the causes vary for each individual; there is no panacea for a mental disorder. Three, genetics are but a single factor that can contribute to the development of a mental disorder. If you do not know, they have been generalized into three categories: biological, psychological, and environmental. Genetic mutations are but a factor of the larger, broader group, biological. And before you start typing, ''Then we need to focus on the biological, psychological and environmental factors that cause these mental illnesses.'' I ask that you read the third sentence, except this time, read for comprehension.


Then we need to find out what the causes are for all mental disorders so we can find a way to prevent them.


Read the third sentence... again

EDIT: the one in red
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Posted 3/31/13

tehstud wrote:



Read the third sentence... again

EDIT: the one in red


Then we need to find each specific cause in order to find ways to prevent them all.
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Posted 3/31/13

lordseth23 wrote:


tehstud wrote:



Read the third sentence... again

EDIT: the one in red


Then we need to find each specific cause in order to find ways to prevent them all.


As expected.
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Posted 4/1/13

tehstud wrote:



As expected.


What is your objective for this conversation?
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Posted 4/2/13

lordseth23 wrote:

Guns should be legal, the real issue is the psychological problems of people that cause them to misuse guns. We should focus all of our effort on curing these problems.


So those people should be allowed guns as well? Even though they are the most prevalent means of suicide, domestic violence death, and armed robbery we should give mentally unstable people access to weapons they may use to harm themselves or others?
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Posted 4/2/13

marmondesu wrote:


lordseth23 wrote:

Guns should be legal, the real issue is the psychological problems of people that cause them to misuse guns. We should focus all of our effort on curing these problems.


So those people should be allowed guns as well? Even though they are the most prevalent means of suicide, domestic violence death, and armed robbery we should give mentally unstable people access to weapons they may use to harm themselves or others?


People with extreme mental instability aren't allowed to have guns in places where guns are legal either.

I could just as easily kill myself with a knife, a noose, or even just drowning myself.

I could just as easily kill someone else with a knife, or a multitude of other things.

If I'm going to rob a store, I'll buy a gun illegally. Like most armed robbers do already. They're not traceable, and you don't need a gun license to get one.
__________________________________

Legalizing guns would cause a crash in the "underground gun economy".

Plus, if a criminal robs a store, he'll have a gun either way. If law abiding citizens have guns as well, they could easily prevent the robbery.
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Posted 4/2/13 , edited 4/2/13
Legalizing guns? The only guns not legally available for purchase are fully automatic machine guns and anti aircraft munitions. The loopholes we have are what generates an underground economy. It is illegal to purchase a gun if you have a felony conviction. However it isn't required to run a background check if you are a private gun seller or you are purchasing a gun at a gun show. It is not even a federal crime to engage in gun trafficking or straw purchasing for felons. These are all things that would change with this present legislation. Ninetey percent of Americans polled support these provisions.

Most states are not in compliance with background check laws. Whether it is not adding known abusers to the rolls or those like the Virginia Tech shooter who would have qualified but Virginia wasn't in compliance in terms of including mental health records on their background check database. The legislation being considered would change that and make those records mandatory and offer funds to help shore up the national database.

There isn't any state, county, or city in America where there are total gun prohibitions. This has been the case since the Heller decision in the Supreme Court where handgun bans were struck down. In that same ruling it was show that there is legal standing for gun regulation at a federal and state level even from the most conservative justice, Antonin Scalia.

The point of this legislation is that yes guns used in crimes are often acquired illegally at present 40 percent of all gun sales are done without a background check and are not purchased in areas with strict gun laws where the crimes are being committed. It would be a crime for the seller as well as the purchaser to attempt to circumvent a background check. It will not prevent all criminals from acquiring guns but it would stop the unthinking nature in which this is considered the norm. Making it harder for criminals to get guns should be gun policy 101 it is the basic goal of all law enforcement. It is also of benefit to licensed responsible gun dealers where all transactions will now need to take place. Not a worry for almost anyone as there are more gun dealers in America than there are Wallmarts or Starbucks. (that isn't an overstatement, Marketplace Money found that the number of licensed gun dealers at over 58,000 in the U.S.) There is a massive underground market accounting for as much as 40 percent of the sales of guns in this country. Taxing these transactions and requiring they be conducted with a background check in person at a licensed gun dealer would crater that illegal market and be a boon to gun dealers and states.

Methods matter. Suicide by gun has the highest fatality rate of all attempted methods it is over 90 percent. Nooses are used far less in America though they are the preferred means of suicide in many other industrialized nations where guns are less prevalent. It has a much lower fatality rating. Many people are stopped or survive the act simply because it is a less immediately lethal means of suicide. For adolescents its simply that the family gun was available. It makes what is an emotionally wrought decision one that goes from contemplation to action quicker than any other method. Just as with background checks it wouldn't prevent all gun deaths but the goal isn't total prevention that may not be something achievable by public policy. But if it saves a few thousand lives each year that is a monumental impact to those thousands of families.

Again on the note of lethality, Newtown was committed with an assault rifle in less than five minutes. The same day 20 children were stabbed in China, they all survived. The Tuscon shooter had an extended magazine easily concealed and enough to deal death in quick succession and was only stopped when he went to reload. There was a legal gun owner there who drew his gun and very nearly shot at the man tackling the shooter to the ground. Gabby Gifford and her Husband Mark Kelley are legal gun owners as well. In fact most shooting victims are themselves legal gun owners. Guns are more likely to be used against the gun owner themselves than they are to be used in self defense in so called justifiable homicides. That came to the for during the debate over Floridas controversial stand your ground law.


I honestly don't expect these facts to sway your opinion. The gun debate is almost wholly irrational in America. However public policy discussions should never be irrational and thats why I offer these facts. No one should claim that legislation with stop these gun massacres completely. What is being argued is that as a matter of policy they will save lives with relative little inconvenience. I don't really see the counterargument to that?





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Posted 4/3/13

marmondesu wrote:

So those people should be allowed guns as well? Even though they are the most prevalent means of suicide, domestic violence death, and armed robbery we should give mentally unstable people access to weapons they may use to harm themselves or others?


Yes, they should be allowed to own guns once their mental instability is fixed.
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Posted 4/3/13
That's ridiculous. Who would decide when a person is cured? Most of the reporting data is voluntary and many states are still not in compliance. This is how the Virginia Tech shooter legally acquired a firearm despite having qualified for being added to the states mental health background check rolls. The idea of this legislation is to reduce gun violence both in homicide and suicide and giving mentally ill people guns isn't going to improve either of those. That being said I do believe mental health parity should be of paramount public health importance.
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Posted 4/4/13

marmondesu wrote:

That's ridiculous. Who would decide when a person is cured? Most of the reporting data is voluntary and many states are still not in compliance. This is how the Virginia Tech shooter legally acquired a firearm despite having qualified for being added to the states mental health background check rolls. The idea of this legislation is to reduce gun violence both in homicide and suicide and giving mentally ill people guns isn't going to improve either of those. That being said I do believe mental health parity should be of paramount public health importance.


Everyone would decide when the person is cured.
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Posted 4/5/13
No need to have a gun in this day and age
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Posted 4/5/13
Lordseth I am not saying this to be insulting but your response shows a lack of understanding of public policy, mental health, and societal norms.
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Posted 4/5/13

marmondesu wrote:

Lordseth I am not saying this to be insulting but your response shows a lack of understanding of public policy, mental health, and societal norms.


Then teach me, O Great One.
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