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Post Reply ~HELL~
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Posted 4/2/13
I have discovered a fundamental flaw in the whole trust Jesus/God/whatever or you're going to Hell thing.
Those of us who don't beleive such a thing as any hell exists tend to have a nagging prerequisite before trusting in unlikely things, ie. to have some sort of evidence presented to us. If the incentive to simply believe in something possibly fictional is also something possibly fictional, then the incentive becomes moot no matter how harsh it is. Essentially some of us are compelled to disbelieve simply because that is core of our being, how we were created.

But wait, you may ask, if we don't believe in God why would I suggest we are created?

Because it's is also possible God does exist. But if that is true wouldn't that make him far more EVIL than Satan to create humans who are compelled to ask for evidence that God seems to insist he is not going to provide? In other words those people are esentially created to be doomed to hellfire.

Therefore why make Hell so extremely terrifying? How about a compromise for those of us who are unfairly doomed to go there no matter what, maybe more like a not-quite-Heaven instead. Or I was thinking perhaps maybe you'll spend eternity in a small white cell forced to listen to Bee-Gees songs constantly. Oh wait, on second thought that would be worse than the Lake of Fire.
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19 / M / CA
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Posted 4/2/13
Have you ever experienced an overwhelming sence of love before? Not somthing humans are capable of, but a feeling of pure innocence and joy? It's moments like that when i truly connect with god that i feel this. I will break down and cry my eyes out feeling his beautifull presance and feeling so ashamed of myself for all the horrible things i have done. I don't limit myself to a label, i don't claim to christian or muslum etc. I just seek pure spiritual guidence.

I guess what i'm trying to say (Since i have a bad habit of being missunderstood) is that you'll know he's there when you feel it, not see it. Stop worying about all these meaningless theorys that will hold you back. Just admit that you're a pile of shit, humble yourself and open your mind up. Else it will be very hard for you to connect with him. But i guess that might not be persuading enough either. :/

Anyways i hope you will not stop worying about the material world so much, that's your first problem.
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Posted 4/2/13
I believe there is one god that rules the entire universe. Hes unseen and is a spirit. Thats what I believe. Rather than believe...I strongly know.

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Posted 4/2/13 , edited 4/2/13

MarshDiamond wrote:

I believe there is one god that rules the entire universe. Hes unseen and is a spirit. Thats what I believe. Rather than believe...I strongly know.

But ALL knowledge requires a certain degree of proof. I believe that it is impossible to know anything unless you've observed some sort of information related to that knowledge. To explain this take this analogy: suppose you wanted to know the last time a tree fell. But how would you know that without ever seeing a tree fall in your life? If you lived in a city all your life and no one ever told you about a place like the Amazon Rain Forest, you'd be convinced that trees rarely fall, they have to be chopped down carefully so they don't damage property. But most people do learn about the Amazon Rain Forest and how big it is, and how loggers are felling trees constantly. Probably at least one every second.

You can't see that, you can't hear them falling but you know it's happening, because of general knowledge you may have gained. It's not called belief for something you cant see, hear or feel, it's associated knowledge that makes you infer things about the world. But this doesn't happen with God. There is no knowledge available that can lead us to infer that he exists. You are required to rely only on belief, you can't know with either seeable or inferable knowledge and without either of those it cant be called knowledge.

Anyway that wasn't really what the topic of my thread was, I want to explore the possibility of an alternative form of hell existing that isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. And if it has to be completely torturous and horrible, why?

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27 / M / United States
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Posted 4/2/13
Think this topic seems a little unclear to me, but if your talking about why does hell have to be so bad. Then I think you might be misunderstanding their idea of hell, they don't determine what hell is, it's determined by their scriptures. So it can't be changed because all religions believe what their version of hell is, is what it will always be.

Also religions sometimes have 2 different versions, a physical hell you go to and a current living hell if you commit sin.
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Posted 4/2/13
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/ noah's Ark

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/chariots-in-red-sea-irrefutable-evidence/ Chariots under the Red sea where Moses split the water.

is this enough proof for you? you shouldnt need proof on something like this, its something ur just supposed to believe. but hey everybody thinks differently.
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Posted 4/2/13

Urboistar wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/ noah's Ark

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/chariots-in-red-sea-irrefutable-evidence/ Chariots under the Red sea where Moses split the water.

is this enough proof for you? you shouldnt need proof on something like this, its something ur just supposed to believe. but hey everybody thinks differently.


you do realize that your first link has an update link that says the arc turned out to be hoax right?

Also finding chariot wheels that was commonly crossed by sea doesn't prove anything other than someone lost their chariot's wheels a long time ago.

My biggest problem with you just need to believe is that believing doesn't prove or disprove anything; I can jump around believing different religions does that mean each religion suddenly becomes true as soon as I believe in it?

A lot of people like to find something to create a foundation for their beliefs outside of just believing.
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Posted 4/2/13

Karnrage wrote:


Urboistar wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/27/noahs-ark-found-turkey-ararat/ noah's Ark

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/chariots-in-red-sea-irrefutable-evidence/ Chariots under the Red sea where Moses split the water.

is this enough proof for you? you shouldnt need proof on something like this, its something ur just supposed to believe. but hey everybody thinks differently.


you do realize that your first link has an update link that says the arc turned out to be hoax right?

Also finding chariot wheels that was commonly crossed by sea doesn't prove anything other than someone lost their chariot's wheels a long time ago.

My biggest problem with you just need to believe is that believing doesn't prove or disprove anything; I can jump around believing different religions does that mean each religion suddenly becomes true as soon as I believe in it?

A lot of people like to find something to create a foundation for their beliefs outside of just believing.


Really? lol i just looked for shit on google.

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23 / F / USA
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Posted 4/2/13
Im not being rude and please don't take offence to this but trust me Im way ahead on many thoughts about god you can think of and I understand exactly what you mean. I want to make my own explaination for what you are talking about for you but I just don't feel like it lol. Theres so much I could explain to you in my own way but Im just one human and we all think differently eventhough all our minds do think alike.

For starters let me began with telling you that I grew up in a very religious pentacostle family where I wasn't aloud to cut my hair, perice my ears, wear makeup pr any other type of clothing for woman other than dresses that had to be past the knees. Also I could not wear jewlery of any type because it was considered of the devil to do any of them things and if I did I was told I would go to hell.

I got older and things changed. I came to the conclusion that it was all BS! I also decided that I would believe what I felt and like you said you can't believe in something you never saw or experienced. Thats why people worship many different things and objects. They want an image that they will never have sadly. Im not trying to throw the bible or my belief in your face but the bible even says that god is a spirit. What people get confused about is the whole story of Jesus being born as a human. It was god himslef that decided to be born as a human in human form to understand his creation. He realized how terrible it felt to be human and all of or human way which he created so he died on the cross to forgive us all for our sins so we would have a chance to live in paridise and not all go to hell for one sin.

Another thing that I want to note is that their are different religions that believe the same bible in different ways. Such as the Trinity which I also think is BS. They believe it because the bible says the son of god. I for one believe that it was just god himself. He had to explain what he was to us in some way so thats how it came to be. So yes religion is a mixed and very confusing, contriversal, argumentive subject because their are so many people who simply believe what their taught. So for example I can't tell someone that they are going to hell because they believe in buddism because who am I as one human to condem their belief. If your taught that your taught that. Well you might ask than what religion..........I can't answer that Im not a god. No human has the answer you just have to believe. What is God if their is no belief?? Nothing. And if you don't believe in him then whats the point of even thinking of not believing in him. Theres not reason to say I don't believe in god. Simply don't speak his name if you truely don't believe.

Also about hell. There are many different perspectives on it and as far as I no. I don't want to go to that place. I mean have you heard of the 7 heavens or the body of hell thats shaped as a humans form. Its super confusing. You just have to study into it your self and come to your own conclusion. Believe if you want and don't if you don't want to. Im going to stop here because I can keep going. Thats how strong this topic can get. Im only one human and I truely don't know all.......

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Posted 4/2/13


I think you bring up good point that he should look for himself to find his answer, but I'd like to add on that you should look for the answer that you think is right not the answer you want.



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Posted 4/2/13
That wasn't my intentions to be straight forward with ya. I believe what I believe from what I was taught in the bible. I was just trying to not sound pushy.
Wihl 
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Posted 4/3/13
The concept of hell is not very christian-like is it?

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Posted 4/3/13
Even for those who believe in God, there has to be more to it then just belief (or love as some say) to avoid hell. If God is a all-knowing as they say than he's going to know if your just claiming to love him so you can snag a place in heaven and will send you hell as punishment for being a smart-arse. I know some believersdo this, anyone who says 'You'll die screaming for a priest' for example.

It's all very unfair for the poor lost tribe on some island who have never heard of Jesus or God. Would they go straight to hell despite never knowing.

Isn't the compromise Purgatory or Limbo? The inbetween bit where un-baptised babies end up or has that been taken out of church teachings? (I certainly don't hear that much about it these days).

I've read a few accounts of people who've claimed to have visited Hell and it's usually the old 'Fire and Brimstone' stereotypical view most of us have.

And if Hell is just a name for a feeling you get while alive than I must always been in it, as I've never felt 'true love' or 'over-whelming joy'. I feel happy sometimes of course but nothing major. So if that's the case then hell's not so bad.
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Posted 4/3/13
blah blah blah religion blah blah blah
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Posted 4/3/13

JustineKo2 wrote:

I have discovered a fundamental flaw in the whole trust Jesus/God/whatever or you're going to Hell thing.
Those of us who don't beleive such a thing as any hell exists tend to have a nagging prerequisite before trusting in unlikely things, ie. to have some sort of evidence presented to us. If the incentive to simply believe in something possibly fictional is also something possibly fictional, then the incentive becomes moot no matter how harsh it is. Essentially some of us are compelled to disbelieve simply because that is core of our being, how we were created.

But wait, you may ask, if we don't believe in God why would I suggest we are created?

Because it's is also possible God does exist. But if that is true wouldn't that make him far more EVIL than Satan to create humans who are compelled to ask for evidence that God seems to insist he is not going to provide? In other words those people are esentially created to be doomed to hellfire.

Therefore why make Hell so extremely terrifying? How about a compromise for those of us who are unfairly doomed to go there no matter what, maybe more like a not-quite-Heaven instead. Or I was thinking perhaps maybe you'll spend eternity in a small white cell forced to listen to Bee-Gees songs constantly. Oh wait, on second thought that would be worse than the Lake of Fire.


When you were a child, did you believe in the Easter bunny, Santa Claus, monsters under the bed, and all those fictional beings? Because I did. Being skeptical is not innate and not predetermined. I believe this is due to science and our, relatively, comprehensive understanding of the fabric from which we are made.

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