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Post Reply Flowers of Evil Discussions
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Posted 6/3/13
This show is a perfect balance of fucked up and satisfying c:<
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42 / M / Canada
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Posted 6/3/13 , edited 6/3/13

asharka wrote:
...On another note, is this an intentional play on words and translations, do you suppose? Shouldn't it be Ready, Set, 5 (go)! instead of 3 (san).



I can't think of any other reason for the "3", unless maybe he's hinting at a triangle? Nah, couldn't be.


I would say a bit of a mis-translation. いっせーのーせ means "on the count of three" so the only funny thing is they skipped 1 and 2... Like someone said, "On the count of three...THREE!!!"

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57 / M / Uberwald
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Posted 6/3/13

hpulley wrote:
I would say a bit of a mis-translation. いっせーのーせ means "on the count of three" so the only funny thing is they skipped 1 and 2... Like someone said, "On the count of three...THREE!!!"
Thanks, that makes so much more sense than what I was thinking...

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Posted 6/3/13 , edited 6/3/13
So I just watched ep8 (not a member) and here are my thoughts:

The funeral marches from and to school were crazy. Imagine how long it actually took them to walk that distance (if it were in real life), and the thoughts running through Kasuga's head. The holding hands was like... it was like Nakamura was the only thing holding him together, as they shuffle slowly along home. The music on their way FROM school at night suggested a feeling of elation, maybe even calm. Like Kasuga was happy/relieved that he got those feelings out of his system, and that his classmates would FINALLY know the truth. However, god damn, he just had to paint over his name, his classmates are still in the dark, and thus perpetuating Kasuga's role as a "closet-pervert" for Nakamura to exploit. It's a vicious cycle where a person gets stuck in a particular way of living, a particular mindset or personality.

I don't know whether to classify this story as a tragedy yet, or what Kasuga's tragic flaw would be. Maybe it's Kasuga's attitude toward others.. he did refer to his classmates as "dumb slovenly seals" at one point. I guess if his attitude doesn't change by the end of the series, this story might end up a tragedy as Nakamura continues to exploit Kasuga's role as a "pervert" and Kasuga increasingly feels like he has no one to turn to except Nakamura.
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21 / M / florida
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Posted 6/3/13
They ended it at the craziest parts this ep...I was legit thinking will we get to the craziness or not!! at 15 min in
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22 / M / Sembach AFB, Germany
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Posted 6/3/13
HAHAHA, what is this? I'm looking at the manga's art and the animation and thinking to myself "Where did it all go wrong"

Chyort, man
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25 / M / Sydney, Australia
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Posted 6/3/13
After watching episode 9, man, this anime's the real deal, it's the awesome-sauce anime of the year.

Every aspect of this anime is a perfect 10/10.

Nakamura is awesome.
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33 / M / Planet Sanno
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Posted 6/4/13
It feels like the pace is accelerating, like all the dominoes are starting to fall.

And I still cannot guess where it is all going – the mark of a genuinely good show, IMO.
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24 / M / California
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Posted 6/4/13 , edited 6/4/13
Loving it so far, but I do find the main character's choices to be confusing and illogical. I mean, geez, the kid is smart for his age. Baudelair is a very tough read.

He didn't ditch the gym clothes right after the made-up story about the thief was announced to the class. If I were him, I would have gotten rid of the clothes at that point and forgotten about them. With the general stigma against Nakamura, people would easily believe what he has to say, dismissing Nakamura's words as the ravings of a lunatic. Nakamura is a psycho ***** who'd probably get mad, but I would have rather dealt with that while having the 'advantage' of the people around me loathing her.

Then, after Saeki found out and still accepted him, he didn't spill the beans and talk to her properly. At that point, it's already too late to be trying to hide the theft and classroom-wrecking. I would've just come clean and taken Saeki seriously, telling her everything and apologizing with my heart. Boom. Sins forgiven. Especially since Kasuga idolized her so much, it would be the most sensible thing to do.

Also, after wrecking the classroom, it should have been instinctive to hide the ink-stained clothing. Even at his age, I knew ink was almost impossible to wash off and that if I just tossed it in the washer, I risked having my family see it. I would have worn those clothes up to my room and hid them somewhere so that I could dispose of them later. Throwing them in the washer instantly struck me as a bad move when he did it, and I've never read the manga or any spoilers.

Then again, the kid is trying too hard to be so pure in both manner and intention, and we see that he is falling so gloriously to the darkness. And he isn't me and this is probably one of his first experiences with girls as well as the dirty human conscience within himself. It's still a really interesting anime regardless. It's a nice concept, that he who is so white has the most difficult struggle against all that is impure. Sort of like how the whiter the cloth, the more easily stained it is. The brighter the light, the darker the shadow it casts. A brilliant anime.
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20 / M / The Netherlands,...
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Posted 6/5/13
What can I say, episode 9, amazing.
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Posted 6/5/13
@Morbidhanson,

The evidence wasn't necessary for Nakamura to blackmail Kasuga. His own guilty conscience was enough. (Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if Nakamura was the one who tipped off the teachers with the made-up thief sighting. )

He couldn't face Saeki even though she said she forgave him because he felt too shameful and undeserving of her. The fact that she didn't mind all that horrible stuff he had done probably made him feel even worse about himself.

Wrecking the classroom was supposed to expose Kasuga of his crimes. (Unexpectedly to him but not to Nakamura apparently, his name was painted over...) When he got home, he was bracing himself for scorn from everyone including his parents. No point in discarding your murder weapon when you've basically turned yourself in, right?

I agree that he's trying too hard to be pure, which is probably why Nakamura is trying to get him forsake that facade.
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Posted 6/6/13 , edited 6/6/13
Wow when Saeki was like "I'm happy about what you did to my uniform, that's how guys are right?" It's unfortunate that the same line of thought is being used to perpetuate rape culture. The same thinking that goes "oh it's not the guys fault, it's normal for them to be horny perverts and flirt with women". Well guess what, no it's not. Just like how it's not normal to be aroused by animated underage school girls.

After watching episode 9, my suspicions about Kasuga digging himself into a hole, isolating himself from others along with Nakamura continue to be confirmed! It's really unfortunate because this is the result of a combination of his own thinking and the environment he lives in. Someone other than Kasuga might be relieved and think "oh well, I got away with vandalism, sweet". But for Kasuga the situation is more conflicted, because he both wants to be "normal" but he also realizes that he has sinned. He wants to atone for those sins, BUT he sees no way of doing so, because he thinks there is no one he can trust. (except Nakamura at this point)

For example, both during the trip home and when he arrives home, his classmates and his mother are like "omg that crazy pervert came back to your school again" The problem is that Kasuga is that person, he feels guilty, he wants to atone for it, BUT he doesn't have any faith that anyone will understand his situation. After all it was a few episodes when Kasuga called his classmates "dumb slovenly seals". xD

Yeah, so like I said, unless Kasuga stops thinking so negatively about others, I think it's all downhill from here... or uphill if he and Nakamura actually bike up the hill. Also why do I feel that Kasuga's mother is going to get injured or become ill?
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Posted 6/8/13

snowpenguin77 wrote: I agree that he's trying too hard to be pure, which is probably why Nakamura is trying to get him forsake that facade.
I figure this whole thing is a kind-of allegory of the pain of puberty, and the loss of innocence. It's almost the Garden of Eden, with Adam played by Kasuga, Eve by Saeki, and the snake by Nakamura. Except instead of tempting Eve, the snake is essentially exposing what's already in Adam's heart, and is mocking him for his own refusal to admit it.

As adults, we may shrug and say, "what's the big deal; you like girls, that's not really a sin." But being overpowered by "impure" thoughts that one never had before can be traumatic at that time, and cause shame. In his case he clearly put Saeki on a pedestal and upholds her to be a symbol of purity. But he can't reconcile that with his "dirty" side. If he could, he'd have happily let Namamura walk away when she said "our contract is null and I'm done with you." His misery with her could have been over and he could have had the perfect happy ending with Saeki; instead, he dug his grave even deeper.

What I'm curious about now is how he'll process the fact that Saeki really isn't as "pure" as he imagined. I don't know that he really believed Nakamura when she said Saeki had told her she wanted to sleep with him (it probably just stoked in him his own lust); but now he's heard from her himself that she was OK with him having fun with her gym uniform. So I wonder if that will play a role in helping him to accept his sexuality and mature, or if it will completely break him. (Assuming it's addressed at all.)

Manga readers could probably jump in and tell me I've completely missed the point. But, the ultimate ending aside, that's part of what I love about this title: it's open to a lot of interpretations.


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Posted 6/8/13

auron570 wrote: Wow when Saeki was like "I'm happy about what you did to my uniform, that's how guys are right?" It's unfortunate that the same line of thought is being used to perpetuate rape culture. The same thinking that goes "oh it's not the guys fault, it's normal for them to be horny perverts and flirt with women". Well guess what, no it's not.
Let me guess, you just took the final for your Feminist Studies undergrad class, and now you have the appropriate academic label for every societal behavior. Let me take issue with what you said:

First, let's assume that the writers of this show are not out to promote an objectification of women, but are telling a story that involves the dynamics of coming-of-age between boys and girls. Thus, perhaps we can take Saeki's claim at face value, that she was OK with it, rather than assume she's some victim of a larger "rape-culture" where by nature she assumes the role of submissive victim.

Second, your examples of what constitutes rape-culture are absurd. Suddenly it's offensive for men to flirt with women? I'd think that flirting with a girl is a far cry from slipping her a roofie and taking advantage of her while passed out; then blaming her later by saying she was "asking for it to happen." This over-use of the idea that any kind of sexual attraction of men to women leads ultimately to rape just makes all men abusers and all women victims.

And thus my biggest complaint: the trivializing of the word "rape" to fit some larger "identity politics." Actual survivors of rape I doubt appreciate being used as a tool for someone else's socio-economic struggle.

I cringe whenever people throw these terms around as a reaction to something they see, even if it's just some random TV show from Japan. It's as if learning this stuff isn't really learning, but indoctrinating; and instead of being a critical thinker, people become reactors.
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Posted 6/8/13
@tcfenstermaker
Well close enough. You're right I didn't really define "rape culture", and even if I did, it probably wasn't helping what I wanted to say anyway. The way I used it was way too general and led to misunderstandings. No I don't see Saeki as a victim. No I don't think that every flirtatious behavior could lead to rape. I do think as a human it's important to be critical of different attitudes and behaviors toward others, whether this is seen in real life, in an anime, whether it's between children, teenagers or adults. Yes, these are my reactions, but I try to be critical.
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