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Post Reply Flowers of Evil Discussions
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Posted 4/9/13

runec wrote:


kitsuneshoujo wrote:

I think the underlying hatred of this show is because its not a pretty feel-good romance. It's unsettling, creepy and real. Reactions seem to also be similar to the French people of Baudelaire's time. He got prosecuted and his poetry was banned because it was so shocking and ugly.


I don't think so. Again, its not that this is some revolutionary art style or that people are turned off by the story. It doesn't look creepy and exotic. It's looks cheap and lazy. That impression is formed instantly before we even know the story. It's a terrible move as it turns people away before they even get into your story.

Why should I care about your story when you didn't care about its presentation?


That argument can be made in the opposite way as well. Therefore, it holds no basis here.
runec 
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Posted 4/9/13

cdmillions wrote:

That argument can be made in the opposite way as well. Therefore, it holds no basis here.


Meaning what? They shouldn't care about their audience's opinion?

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Posted 4/9/13

hgibson88 wrote:

Today my copy of Volume I of the manga arrived, I've read it, and I stand fully by my observations that the anime is an excellent adaption.
It sets the tone and atmosphere of the story so much better than the manga does, it makes it better. The manga opens and there's literally a 2 inch horizontal slice in the first frame to show what the town is like, that's it, then it jumps straight into the classroom - the anime spends a few minutes to set the tone of the story, in this mundane, repetitive world where everything is rusting and decaying, and Kasuga is trapped in that world. It's all about the mise en scene, which the anime develops wonderfully.
People are just mad that Nakamura is no longer pretty, but that's not what is SUPPOSED to be attractive about her; it's about her darker, primal inside, which Kasuga will eventually relate to, because he feels it too, through his love of Baudelaire.
I'm glad to see that more people are enjoying the anime!


I actually agree with this. I read the first chapter alone, and the difference was huge. they pretty much just throw you into the story. the anime does a very good job of making setting and tone. I actually forced myself to sit and watch the whole first episode, and despite how much I hated the art style, I found it captivating. it definitely does it's best to make you feel uncomfortable, and I think that it works for the story's sake, if it's as fucked up as people are making it out to be.
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Posted 4/9/13

aidenraine wrote:
I actually forced myself to sit and watch the whole first episode, and despite how much I hated the art style, I found it captivating. it definitely does it's best to make you feel uncomfortable, and I think that it works for the story's sake, if it's as fucked up as people are making it out to be.


I really think that if the rest of the episodes continue to build on this first one and that the story is as good as they say, then this will be the critically acclaimed series for this year. This show is really pushing the bounds for anime, which I greatly welcome.
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Posted 4/9/13

runec wrote:


kitsuneshoujo wrote:

I think the underlying hatred of this show is because its not a pretty feel-good romance. It's unsettling, creepy and real. Reactions seem to also be similar to the French people of Baudelaire's time. He got prosecuted and his poetry was banned because it was so shocking and ugly.


I don't think so. Again, its not that this is some revolutionary art style or that people are turned off by the story. It doesn't look creepy and exotic. It's looks cheap and lazy. That impression is formed instantly before we even know the story. It's a terrible move as it turns people away before they even get into your story.

Why should I care about your story when you didn't care about its presentation?


I think you should go and watch who rotoscope is done, it's not lazy or cheap.

--

Anyway, if you don't want to watch the show because you dont like the art style they went with, then it's your loss. And just so I am clear, by "you" I do not mean the person I quoted.

I enjoyed this show, the art, and the characterizations, and will continue to watch it.
runec 
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Posted 4/9/13 , edited 4/9/13

kitsuneshoujo wrote:

I think you should go and watch who rotoscope is done, it's not lazy or cheap.


Rotoscoping was invented to easily animate things you did not have the time/money or skill to animate by hand. That's the entire point of it. Also, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, this isn't even good rotoscoping. Good rotoscoping is something like Snow White or Heavy Metal. Hell even that animated Lord of the Rings from the 70s. They could have used rotoscoping as an stylistic change had they done it well.

This however is bargain bin rotoscoping that any of us here could do. When I watch this, it just looks like someone ruined a good J-drama or I'm watching a student film.

There were two potential audiences for this show: Fans of the manga and fans of anime.

Fans of the manga get confronted with an art style change from the style of the manga. But they know there's a good story to be had here so some will stick with it. Most anime fans on the other hand will likely ditch the show cause its not actually anime or because it looks terrible or cheap. So what will inevitably happen ( and likely is across the interwebs ) is you'll get a majority of detractors vs a group of people who think they "get" it. The former will get increasingly trollish and the latter will get increasingly snobbish an elitist.

From a purely pragmatic standpoint there's three possibilities:
The creators of the show tried something different and its backfiring.
They were intentionally trying to troll up controversy as a form of buzz.
They don't care what people think and did this for themselves.

I can respect #1. But I resent #2 as a cheap ploy and #3 smacks of egotism.

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Posted 4/9/13
Egotism? Ha, get off your high horse, this is their creation, they're not forcing you or anybody else to watch it.
Also, your description of 'fans of anime' is trite and ridiculous, anime is just a form of animation - it comes in many styles and different forms, this is simply one of them. It's unconventional and abstract but to suggest it's not 'anime' or not what 'fans of anime' would want to watch is disrespectful to both the show and those of us who are watching it. Just because the characters don't have brightly coloured hair or humongous eyes or any other number of overwrought trope or archetype that CR is brimming to burst with, doesn't make it bad. Maybe you should read the thread a little more and see that both the mangaka and the animation director chose to create the animation as it was for very specific reasons, and maybe you should respect that.
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Posted 4/9/13

I love how creepy and unsettling this show is. I am putting it on my top favorites for this season. I was growing tired of all of the cutsy anime, and this is a nice break from the whole 'cute girls going cute s**t' genre. It's refreshing to have a mature, dark anime on here for a change.

Btw... I love the scenery in this anime. It really reminds me of when I was in Japan last June.
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Posted 4/9/13

hgibson88 wrote:

Egotism? Ha, get off your high horse, this is their creation, they're not forcing you or anybody else to watch it.
Also, your description of 'fans of anime' is trite and ridiculous, anime is just a form of animation - it comes in many styles and different forms, this is simply one of them. It's unconventional and abstract but to suggest it's not 'anime' or not what 'fans of anime' would want to watch is disrespectful to both the show and those of us who are watching it. Just because the characters don't have brightly coloured hair or humongous eyes or any other number of overwrought trope or archetype that CR is brimming to burst with, doesn't make it bad. Maybe you should read the thread a little more and see that both the mangaka and the animation director chose to create the animation as it was for very specific reasons, and maybe you should respect that.


I'm sorry to whom is this post directed to?

~~~

rule 1 of flame wars

flame the person and proceed to mock his or her grammar while having very poor grammar yourself

just fyi, because between most people (well at least myself ) find flame wars very fun to watch

I'm not advertising to start a flame war. I'm just saying that is how it goes.

~~~

back to the thread

The rotoscoping idea paired with (what seems to be) drawn backgrounds seems counter intuitive, why not draw the characters. I the direction the anime is taking seems to want to make the characters as human as possible (ie rotoscope) and not for a stylistic approach but because this style yields the most human aspect.
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Posted 4/9/13

AnimeKami wrote:


hgibson88 wrote:

Egotism? Ha, get off your high horse, this is their creation, they're not forcing you or anybody else to watch it.
Also, your description of 'fans of anime' is trite and ridiculous, anime is just a form of animation - it comes in many styles and different forms, this is simply one of them. It's unconventional and abstract but to suggest it's not 'anime' or not what 'fans of anime' would want to watch is disrespectful to both the show and those of us who are watching it. Just because the characters don't have brightly coloured hair or humongous eyes or any other number of overwrought trope or archetype that CR is brimming to burst with, doesn't make it bad. Maybe you should read the thread a little more and see that both the mangaka and the animation director chose to create the animation as it was for very specific reasons, and maybe you should respect that.


I'm sorry to whom is this post directed to?

~~~

rule 1 of flame wars

flame the person and proceed to mock his or her grammar while having very poor grammar yourself

just fyi, because between most people (well at least myself ) find flame wars very fun to watch

I'm not advertising to start a flame war. I'm just saying that is how it goes.

~~~

back to the thread

The rotoscoping idea paired with (what seems to be) drawn backgrounds seems counter intuitive, why not draw the characters. I the direction the anime is taking seems to want to make the characters as human as possible (ie rotoscope) and not for a stylistic approach but because this style yields the most human aspect.


It was directed to runec - not sure what you're getting at mentioning flame wars, or grammar, or anything - I was calling him out for making sweeping generalizations that were ridiculous.

And if that's a question you're asking, you answer it yourself right there - Yeah they use rotoscope to reflect the naturalistic nuance of actual people because the themes of the story are very human and are grounded in human emotion. It is a stylistic approach but it's done with a purpose instead of just to differentiate it from the manga (which was also the intention.)
runec 
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Posted 4/9/13

hgibson88 wrote:

Egotism? Ha, get off your high horse, this is their creation, they're not forcing you or anybody else to watch it.


That's proving my point. Yes, they are the creators, but did they make the show for the audience or themselves. Also, that was just one of three possible general scenarios. I did not say it was the truth.



Also, your description of 'fans of anime' is trite and ridiculous, anime is just a form of animation - it comes in many styles and different forms,


Trite and ridiculous how? People ARE fans of anime/ We here on CR are fans of anime. Sure some of us may be fans of ALL forms of animation and styles. But that's unlikely. You're the one generalizing here, not me. You're also still declaring things I listed as likely scenarios or possiilities as if I made declarations of absolute truth.

You are reading what you want to be angry and and responding to that. You're bordering on pulling a straw man here.



It's unconventional and abstract but to suggest it's not 'anime' or not what 'fans of anime' would want to watch is disrespectful to both the show and those of us who are watching it.


When someone says anime, what do you envision? Are you going to claim that anime does not have stylistic techniques and focuses that are unique to its country of origin? Despite all blatant evidence to the contrary? Rotoscoping is an American technique and style. You can see it in many old American cartoons, including Disney and Loony Tunes.

I also only said that it is likely the majority of anime fans will be turned off by the show's choice of animation. The sheet storm surrounding the show is evidence enough of that.



Just because the characters don't have brightly coloured hair or humongous eyes or any other number of overwrought trope or archetype that CR is brimming to burst with, doesn't make it bad.


So now you're generalizing anime moments after saying anime isn't homogenized?



Maybe you should read the thread a little more and see that both the mangaka and the animation director chose to create the animation as it was for very specific reasons, and maybe you should respect that.


Maybe you should read the thread and note that I literally said that verbatim in the exact post you're responding too.




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Posted 4/9/13
On an entirely different note: the funniest thing I took from the first episode? That "Army of Darkness" is called "Captain Supermarket" in Japan. That really cracked me up.
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Posted 4/9/13 , edited 4/10/13

deadpanditto wrote:

On an entirely different note: the funniest thing I took from the first episode? That "Army of Darkness" is called "Captain Supermarket" in Japan. That really cracked me up.


Overpriced milk cartons are an Army of Darkness, and Captain Supermarket takes to the Dairy Produce Section to combat the dastardly foes! Nevermind, forget I said anything.

Anyway, back on topic: I like it (the style, that is). It fits. Though, to me it looks as more of a high school age range in contrast to the manga, which is in middle school, probably because of the way they did it, and it is probably intended purpose. I find the manga to be really funny, despite it not supposed to being (at least, that's what I assumed, anyway), and the anime adaptation gives off a different vibe; again, I like it.

Think like Nakamura, or better yet, like Saeki. The world is a cesspool of grey and ugliness, look past the shitheads and the bullshit to see the truth underneath.
Posted 4/10/13
Watched the trailer just now, the art is not so bad, the background setting reminds me of Wolf Rain, will watch when i get some time to.
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Posted 4/10/13
classic breaking up the argument and addressing every detail haven't seen this in a while (seriously)

anyways back to the thread i have been reading the manga it's pretty good btw he grew some courage downstairs
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