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Post Reply Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai Discussions
Posted 8/18/13
Sigh honestly, I feel as angry as I do when I finished School Days. The two shouldn't be compared, but my reactions can.

I'm shocked. I understand the whole reason behind the 3 OVAs & the ending, but was it worth pissing off/leaving us with this unfulfilled desire for an Oreimo ending? Even if he couldn't get the true wincest ending, why make it so nothing is resolved in the end & we're left back at square 1 with a really bad romcom general ending?

I honestly feel like I shouldn't have watched these, the OVAs single-handedly ruined my whole impression of the show

P.S. This is similar to my reaction with the ending of School Days just because it isn't apparent that it set out to be a deconstruction of the harem genre from the get go, but slowly irritates you & thrills up the characters motives and feelings.
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Posted 8/18/13 , edited 8/18/13
I really loved the anime overall. I really did. I was also pretty invested in Kyousuke's choice, and I was rooting for it.

However, I just couldn't fully get myself to feel moved by it...because...

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Posted 8/18/13

haimoniquex3 wrote:


runec wrote:



But Kirino is the best dere.....jk lol






she is the best
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Posted 8/18/13

runec wrote:

Yeah, from what I can drudge up in Japanese interviews, he wanted a full on wincest ending right from the get go but his publisher wouldn't let him. The series was too main stream and they weren't that kind of publisher. So this ending was all he could get away with and it was too late for him to use a non-blood related/cousins twist because he thought it would look like a cope out coming so late in the story. He also hated Kirino as much as everyone else through most of the story and only came to like her towards the end.



I'm pretty sure you're right about this, based on what I've read. At the same time...well, let's be honest here. As far as "forbidden relationships" go, brother/sister incest is probably among the least socially unacceptable. And beyond that, Kirino has a somewhat public career (she's a model, and she's written novels). I think it would be very difficult to write an ending where they stayed together, Kirino had a normal high school life, they still hung out with their friends, their parents didn't shun them, etc. To make it even a little bit believable for them to stay together, the story would, by necessity, become about them dealing with the repercussions of their relationship. Which could be interesting, but probably not the sort of story people reading the series would want. So, the story needs to end before they get too far.

Still, there's nothing in there to keep the audience from extrapolating the ending they want out of it. I have an idea of how I think things turned out; maybe (probably) its not the same as you, but the ending is open enough where it can exist.
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Posted 8/18/13 , edited 8/18/13

imaginarycreatures wrote:


runec wrote:

Yeah, from what I can drudge up in Japanese interviews, he wanted a full on wincest ending right from the get go but his publisher wouldn't let him. The series was too main stream and they weren't that kind of publisher. So this ending was all he could get away with and it was too late for him to use a non-blood related/cousins twist because he thought it would look like a cope out coming so late in the story. He also hated Kirino as much as everyone else through most of the story and only came to like her towards the end.



I'm pretty sure you're right about this, based on what I've read. At the same time...well, let's be honest here. As far as "forbidden relationships" go, brother/sister incest is probably among the least socially unacceptable. And beyond that, Kirino has a somewhat public career (she's a model, and she's written novels). I think it would be very difficult to write an ending where they stayed together, Kirino had a normal high school life, they still hung out with their friends, their parents didn't shun them, etc. To make it even a little bit believable for them to stay together, the story would, by necessity, become about them dealing with the repercussions of their relationship. Which could be interesting, but probably not the sort of story people reading the series would want. So, the story needs to end before they get too far.

Still, there's nothing in there to keep the audience from extrapolating the ending they want out of it. I have an idea of how I think things turned out; maybe (probably) its not the same as you, but the ending is open enough where it can exist.


This is exactly what I meant by a story like this likely having the potential (or is likely) to be much more complex or gritty, even.

It's more like a sesame street skit on Brother-Sister relations.
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Posted 8/18/13 , edited 8/18/13

zipzo wrote:
...
This is exactly what I meant by a story like this likely having the potential (or is likely) to be much more complex or gritty, even.

It's more like a sesame street skit on Brother-Sister relations.

Again to me the ending is sort of a nudge, nudge, wink, wink, we had our secret wedding, she gave the ring back, we go back to our normal lives, but.... he rejected all the other girls. So... is he going to live alone all his life? Or... are they going to have a secret relationship so that it doesn't ruin their lives legally and professionally? I think the Sesame-Street version they show is just the public version. In private it may be different but Dengeki Bunko novels can't write about that.
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Posted 8/18/13 , edited 8/18/13
That's sort of why people are finding this ending un-fulfilling though...


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Posted 8/18/13
You just have to know how to read what is not written and how to ignore what is written only because it has to be written... Japanese manga is like this too, in their censorship they just... don't... draw some things. You have to use your imagination to fill it in. It is completely obvious what it is, they just can't draw it. Sometimes instead they will draw things there so they don't have to draw nothing. Novels are the same but of course they can't draw everything else around it to imply what isn't there or draw steam in front of it so it is more subtle.
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Posted 8/18/13
It was a fun ride.
runec 
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Posted 8/18/13 , edited 8/18/13
Yeah, thats what I meant by it feeling like I was watching Bizzarro world and the only sane person was Manami.

There was zilch consequences to their forbidden relationship. Everyone is perfectly fine with it like it isn't a problem at all and despite having Kyou going around emotionally destroying each character in turn ( and frankly not having much in the way of remorse about it either ). Yet everyone is okay afterwards and still friends and no one thinks its horrifying that they got dumped in favour of the guy's sister. Never mind turn around and help him get it on with his sister the next day. Frankly it cheapens the rest of the cast by just making them all on board the SS Wincest to avoid any problematic questions or scenes the author didn't feel like dealing with.

Manami is the only one in the whole show that reacted somewhat realistically to the situation ( and my god was Kirino an absolutely TERRIBLE person yet again in that scene. Even Kyou was pissed with her. ) but it felt like she was just there serve as a last minute mouth piece to go over the checklist of problems in order to justify the almost wincest ending. While other major obstacles and emotional shitstorms, such as the parents, have just conveniently disappeared rather than be dealt with.

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Posted 8/18/13 , edited 8/18/13

hpulley wrote:

You just have to know how to read what is not written and how to ignore what is written only because it has to be written... Japanese manga is like this too, in their censorship they just... don't... draw some things. You have to use your imagination to fill it in. It is completely obvious what it is, they just can't draw it. Sometimes instead they will draw things there so they don't have to draw nothing. Novels are the same but of course they can't draw everything else around it to imply what isn't there or draw steam in front of it so it is more subtle.


I refuse to accept your generalization of Japanese manga being limited by some kind of censorship for why the ending is lacking.

Everybody here has seen an anime that's either way more inappropriate, or way more violent, or way more deep and emotionally involving than Oreimo.

Oreimo was simply trying to make a questionable concept "moe".
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Posted 8/18/13 , edited 8/18/13

zipzo
Everybody here has seen an anime that's either way more inappropriate, or way more violent, or way more deep and emotionally involving than Oreimo.

Oreimo was simply trying to make a questionable concept "moe".


That's pretty much in a nutshell. He inexplicably wanted to write Koi Kaze as a harem romcom and got in over his head. This isn't really a subject you can just fluff over as a moe rom com anime. Its too complex a scenario that's pretty much a social/emotional minefield for everyone involved. Hence the show ultimately fails by having to glaze over the complexity and depth yet at the same time being unable to follow through on his original objective. All the while trying to make a seriously taboo social subject into comedy moe.

It works to a point as comedy right up until you realize he's serious about it, then its just uncomfortable and odd that he's really going that route in a show of this nature.
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Posted 8/18/13

zipzo wrote:
I refuse to accept your generalization of Japanese manga being limited by some kind of censorship for why the ending is lacking.

Everybody here has seen an anime that's either way more inappropriate, or way more violent, or way more deep and emotionally involving than Oreimo.

Oreimo was simply trying to make a questionable concept "moe".


Censorship isn't consistent. You can show people getting slaughtered on-screen in an American movie and not go above PG-13, but drop a couple of F-bombs and it's an instant R no matter how wholesome the rest of it is. If it ends up on TV, they're forced to edit out the profanity, but not the in-your-face murder. Doesn't make any sense, but that's the way it works.

Incest is a pretty touchy thing in Japan, from the looks of things.
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Posted 8/18/13
Just trying to illustrate how the concept of truth is not universal. I see much more there than the moe-ification of brocon/siscon relationships.
runec 
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Posted 8/18/13
Its not as if that sort of show/manga doesn't exist in Japan. Its just that he's trying to bring Koi Kaze to the audience of a publisher that normally does stuff like Strawberry Panic, Index and Shakugan no Shana. Not exactly the right label or audience for the sort of subject he was die hard about writing about.
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