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Post Reply Attack on Titan Discussions (Spoilers)
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Posted 10/27/13 , edited 10/27/13

Shukuchi wrote:

and some of you guys are REALLY over thinking and over analyzing this show, it doesn't contain half the themes you guys are claiming it has.

This sentiment seems to be a recurring one on the forums this season.

Without meaning to single you out, I'd like to take the opportunity to give it a swift kick in the teeth. If that's ok.

☐ Beauty of simplicity
☑ Capitalism – effect on the individual
☐ Change of power - necessity
☑ Change versus tradition
☑ Chaos and order
☑ Character – destruction, building up
☐ Circle of life
☑ Coming of age
☐ Communication – verbal and nonverbal
☑ Companionship as salvation
☐ Convention and rebellion
☑ Dangers of ignorance
☐ Darkness and light
☑ Death – inevitable or tragedy
☑ Desire to escape
☑ Destruction of beauty
☑ Disillusionment and dreams
☑ Displacement
☑ Empowerment
☐ Emptiness of attaining false dream
☑ Everlasting love
☐ Evils of racism
☑ Facing darkness
☑ Facing reality
☐ Fading beauty
☑ Faith versus doubt
☑ Family – blessing or curse
☐ Fate and free will
☑ Fear of failure
☑ Female roles
☑ Fulfillment
☑ Good versus bad
☑ Greed as downfall
☑ Growing up – pain or pleasure
☑ Hazards of passing judgment
☑ Heartbreak of betrayal
☑ Heroism – real and perceived
☑ Hierarchy in nature
☑ Identity crisis
☑ Illusion of power
☐ Immortality
☑ Individual versus society
☑ Inner versus outer strength
☑ Injustice
☑ Isolation
☑ Isolationism - hazards
☑ Knowledge versus ignorance
☑ Loneliness as destructive force
☑ Losing hope
☑ Loss of innocence
☑ Lost honor
☐ Lost love
☑ Love and sacrifice
☐ Man against nature
☐ Manipulation
☑ Materialism as downfall
☑ Motherhood
☐ Names – power and significance
☐ Nationalism – complications
☑ Nature as beauty
☑ Necessity of work
☐ Oppression of women
☑ Optimism – power or folly
☑ Overcoming – fear, weakness, vice
☑ Patriotism – positive side or complications
☑ Power and corruption
☐ Power of silence
☐ Power of tradition
☑ Power of wealth
☑ Power of words
☑ Pride and downfall
☑ Progress – real or illusion
☑ Quest for discovery
☑ Quest for power
☑ Rebirth
☑ Reunion
☐ Role of men
☑ Role of Religion – virtue or hypocrisy
☑ Role of women
☐ Self – inner and outer
☑ Self-awareness
☑ Self-preservation
☑ Self-reliance
☑ Social mobility
☑ Technology in society – good or bad
☐ Temporary nature of physical beauty
☑ Temptation and destruction
☐ Totalitarianism
☐ Vanity as downfall
☑ Vulnerability of the meek
☑ Vulnerability of the strong
☑ War – glory, necessity, pain, tragedy
☑ Will to survive
☑ Wisdom of experience
☑ Working class struggles
☑ Youth and beauty

(From an About.com list of common literary themes).

There's a lot missing from this list (like the corruption of the Military Police corps), but this works as an example.
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Posted 10/27/13

qualeshia3 wrote:


Nogara-san wrote:

Can someone explain to me what Levi's appeal is?

He's a badass for sure....but I'm mean because everytime I see a picture/fanart of him, all I keep thinking is how goddamn SHORT he is.....

and to be honest? He's kind of a dick.

Or do people like him because he's voiced by Hiroshi Kamiya?



Hes' a mysterious one indeed.
Yes, the man is badass and short but he doesn't need to feel tall to let others know who he is. His height doesn't really stand in his way on who he is. Even if he were taller he would still be himself.

Rivaille is a blunt person and intimidating in the eyes of others. He does care about people but has that strange way of showing it. "Rivaille is nothing more than a prick and doesn't care about anyone." The problem is he does care about others and really does have hope for humanity.

I really didn't want to be one of those people with comments like he is so badass, how can you not like him?, Rivaille is so boss.. He's obviously cliche/Gary Stu but I still like him though.

Thats' all I can say in my opinion of him.



So he's a tsundere? He and that one girl in his squad look like they got something going on...


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Posted 10/27/13

Shukuchi wrote:

and some of you guys are REALLY over thinking and over analyzing this show, it doesn't contain half the themes you guys are claiming it has.


I'm only bringing it up because I had just started it.

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Posted 10/27/13




No. Which girl are you referring to? Petra? or Zoe?
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31 / F / In a van down by...
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Posted 10/27/13
Petra. Not that weirdo scientist
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Posted 10/27/13 , edited 10/27/13

Nogara-san wrote:

Petra. Not that weirdo scientist :lol:


Rivaille isn't in love with anyone/he isn't focused on romance.
Petra has feelings for him but he doesn't have any feelings for her.......or anyone.
Rivaille focuses on trying to helping humanity, spending time with his comrades, cleaning, and other things than romance. He only seen Petra as a fellow soldier/friend...thats' it.

Petra is sweet though.
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Posted 10/27/13

Nogara-san wrote:

Can someone explain to me what Levi's appeal is?

He's a badass for sure....but I'm mean because everytime I see a picture/fanart of him, all I keep thinking is how goddamn SHORT he is.....

and to be honest? He's kind of a dick.

Or do people like him because he's voiced by Hiroshi Kamiya?


I don't understand the appeal for him is either. When he started beating up Eren I truly wanted Mikasa to barge in and kick his ass. Maybe if he gets slightly more open I would like him more.
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Posted 10/27/13

Nogara-san wrote:


Shukuchi wrote:

and some of you guys are REALLY over thinking and over analyzing this show, it doesn't contain half the themes you guys are claiming it has.


I'm only bringing it up because I had just started it.



I disagree with half of those tbh, most of those themes also were hinted at once and never touched on again or just interpreted by the fans to have some of those properties due to a fans personal experience of the show.
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Posted 10/27/13 , edited 10/27/13

Shukuchi wrote:

I disagree with half of those tbh, most of those themes also were hinted at once and never touched on again or just interpreted by the fans to have some of those properties due to a fans personal experience of the show.

I wondered if you would. But even if you disagree with half, that means you still agree with plenty just from that shortlist.

My point was that it only dawns on people that an anime has a theme when it's drilled into their skulls for the show's duration (NGE, Texhnolyze, Princess Mononoke, Ghost in the Shell, etc.). Of course there ARE shows that do that, and we notice them for it. But saying those are the only themes that matter is like saying the only structures worth being called buildings are skyscrapers. AoT has a great set of themes that make the story stronger for their presence, and it's not absurd for those who are interested to set a few moments aside to discuss and appreciate them.

Again, I don't mean to single you out. I've just been seeing this come up over and over now for weeks. Which I don't get. Who actually goes: "I like this show a lot, but I think it's dumber than you're making it out to be"? Very intelligent people spend their entire careers striving to craft stories that will resonate with an audience, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that themes are a very important element in doing so, just as much as the plot, pacing, characters, and all the rest. Some themes are for the whole series, some for characters, some for arcs, or even single scenes.

But no matter what, they're important. Because stories like AoT would be like chewing cardboard without them.

/dismounts soapbox and goes back to eating dinner
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Posted 10/27/13

Insomnist wrote:


Shukuchi wrote:

I disagree with half of those tbh, most of those themes also were hinted at once and never touched on again or just interpreted by the fans to have some of those properties due to a fans personal experience of the show.

I wondered if you would. But even if you disagree with half, that means you still agree with plenty just from that shortlist.

My point was that it only dawns on people that an anime has a theme when it's drilled into their skulls for the show's duration (NGE, Texhnolyze, Princess Mononoke, Ghost in the Shell, etc.). Of course there ARE shows that do that, and we notice them for it. But saying those are the only themes that matter is like saying the only structures worth being called buildings are skyscrapers. AoT has a great set of themes that make the story stronger for their presence, and it's not absurd for those who are interested to set a few moments aside to discuss and appreciate them.

Again, I don't mean to single you out. I've just been seeing this come up over and over now for weeks. Which I don't get. Who actually goes: "I like this show a lot, but I think it's dumber than you're making it out to be"? Very intelligent people spend their entire careers striving to craft stories that will resonate with an audience, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that themes are a very important element in doing so, just as much as the plot, pacing, characters, and all the rest. Some themes are for the whole series, some for characters, some for arcs, or even single scenes.

But no matter what, they're important. Because stories like AoT would be like chewing cardboard without them.

/dismounts soapbox and goes back to eating dinner


You do have a point but again what I said earlier to say themes exist or not is also a matter of perspective and your personal experience of watching the show, for example "good versus bad" Not only is this point completely open to all kinds of interpretation but is the military really that good morally ? You mentioned before about the military police being corrupt that would contradict the story being about simple good vs evil since there are so many morally grey areas on each side, not to mention the "evil" side being the titans have too much mystery surrounding them to call them clear cut "evil", for all we know they could be similar to the gunmen in TTGL and that they are population control. There's many cases where good versus evil becomes more liberal versus conservative
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Posted 10/27/13

Shukuchi wrote:

You do have a point but again what I said earlier to say themes exist or not is also a matter of perspective and your personal experience of watching the show, for example "good versus bad"


Actually, often authors intentionally put themes into their works as a means to enrich the story. Whether you recognize them or not is not a matter of perspective, but one of perception. On the other hand, sometimes people see themes that were unintended. Perspective matters in that case.
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Posted 10/27/13

deadpanditto wrote:


Shukuchi wrote:

You do have a point but again what I said earlier to say themes exist or not is also a matter of perspective and your personal experience of watching the show, for example "good versus bad"


Actually, often authors intentionally put themes into their works as a means to enrich the story. Whether you recognize them or not is not a matter of perspective, but one of perception. On the other hand, sometimes people see themes that were unintended. Perspective matters in that case.


You are arguing semantics but yes that is right nonetheless
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Posted 10/27/13 , edited 10/27/13

Shukuchi wrote:


deadpanditto wrote:


Shukuchi wrote:

You do have a point but again what I said earlier to say themes exist or not is also a matter of perspective and your personal experience of watching the show, for example "good versus bad"


Actually, often authors intentionally put themes into their works as a means to enrich the story. Whether you recognize them or not is not a matter of perspective, but one of perception. On the other hand, sometimes people see themes that were unintended. Perspective matters in that case.


You are arguing semantics but yes that is right nonetheless

I wouldn't say that. Semantics is about interpretation, not presence.

I think the difference here is between recognizing the presence of a theme, and actually experiencing it within the context of the work. The first isn't subjective, you can make factual arguments about whether or not a theme exists and back it up with evidence. But what you think of how the theme was presented and used can be much more personal.

I guess what I mean is that people can be blind to themes that don't relate to them, but the themes still exist.

(It's also possible to interpret themes the author didn't consciously intend at times, but even when that happens I wonder if an argument could actually be made that the theme is only present for some people and not others. If someone sees a theme in a work, I think they should be able to back it up. Otherwise I'd argue that it's not actually there.)

(I'm not sure if I could prove that, but it'd be my inclination in all this.)
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Posted 10/27/13

Insomnist wrote:
(It's also possible to interpret themes the author didn't consciously intend at times, but even when that happens I wonder if an argument could actually be made that the theme is only present for some people and not others. If someone sees a theme in a work, I think they should be able to back it up. Otherwise I'd argue that it's not actually there.)


Flannery O'Conner once said something to the effect of saying that a good artist has themes in their work because their beliefs, thoughts and values seep into the work naturally. I'm a big proponent of that. I think a good artist always seeks to tell a story above all, and their themes are just a reflection of the artist in the work. Trying to force themes into a story almost always seems heavy handed and fake.
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Posted 10/27/13

iblessall wrote:


Insomnist wrote:
(It's also possible to interpret themes the author didn't consciously intend at times, but even when that happens I wonder if an argument could actually be made that the theme is only present for some people and not others. If someone sees a theme in a work, I think they should be able to back it up. Otherwise I'd argue that it's not actually there.)


Flannery O'Conner once said something to the effect of saying that a good artist has themes in their work because their beliefs, thoughts and values seep into the work naturally. I'm a big proponent of that. I think a good artist always seeks to tell a story above all, and their themes are just a reflection of the artist in the work. Trying to force themes into a story almost always seems heavy handed and fake.


Some themes seep in naturally, but I know that some of the better authors/artists insert themes are intentionally into their works. They do it because if it is done well, it improves the work. Good authors/artists are professions. This is their craft and they work at it. If the theme feels heavy handed and fake, well they haven't done their job very well.
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