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Post Reply Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet Discussion
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18 / M / North town
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Posted 4/22/13
I like this anime. I love Chamber! <3333
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26 / M / Shirley, NY
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Posted 4/22/13
What I really like is how the earthlings keep talking about "getting rid of him" when they clearly have absolutely no power over him. Even after he showed that he's capable of just flying off whenever he feels like it and blasting everyone into dust, they still make comments like that. I'm like" uh...no."
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23 / M / Incoming Air Stomp
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Posted 4/22/13
I am impressed that after death raying the last bunch pirates. Ledo and Chamber just use the the out right physical power to disable the situation with minimal contact and injury. So we have seen Max power of Chamber(full burn out of all weapons vs aliens) and low power too. Nice contrast really.
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42 / M
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Posted 4/22/13

tommythecat wrote:

I'm convinced after the big discussion thread about the last episode on reddit that the majority of people watching Gargatina don't understand there are consequences to your actions and obliterating the pirates is not some black and white decision.

Pirates seem willing to take hostages and slaves so is it okay to annihilate them as well? All we know about the pirates at this point is they attack small convoys to steal what other fleets try to salvage. If they got their jollies off on attacking fleets directly why would the Empress make the decision to teach the fleet commander of Gargatina a lessen for being so bold to completely destroy her raiding party. Ledo upset the status quo and while people might not understand the idea of letting the pirates attack Gargantia's people indirectly, what resulted from a successful assault against pirates and not allowing for them to retreat was a direct attack against a ship full of civilians.


The consequences argument works both ways. There are consequences to allowing pirates to continue to attack your convoys and kill your personnel with near impunity. There was nothing indirect about it. Unless Bellows, her crew, and escort suddenly don't count as Gargantians when they are out salvaging.

I'll concede that part of my opinion is colored by my having read a little bit about real world pirates. So I know that historically there was damn good reason why maritime law used to allow the execution of pirates on the spot if caught in the act. Perhaps such influences don't belong in an analysis of a fictional story.

That being said the second episode clearly showed the pirates murdering Gargantian security personnel, threatening physical abuse including possible rape, and stealing valuable supplies. I felt the Gargantian response to their destruction to be naively self-righteous and a trifle hypocritical. As I recall early in the second episode Pinion suggests attacking Ledo and Chamber and dumping Ledo overboard. The commander objects not because of the sanctity of life or because Ledo hasn't actually hurt anyone but because it might generate a hostile response from any hypothetical comrades Ledo has. Way to hold the moral high ground commander. At least Ledo killed people in your defense who were obviously murderers.
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M / 七十七 / ミシガン
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Posted 4/22/13 , edited 4/22/13

theguzzz wrote:

What I really like is how the earthlings keep talking about "getting rid of him" when they clearly have absolutely no power over him. Even after he showed that he's capable of just flying off whenever he feels like it and blasting everyone into dust, they still make comments like that. I'm like" uh...no."

Haha, yeah, at least it seems they figured out how powerless they are against Ledo when they posed him the question if he could possibly destroy them too, and he responds with "Affirmative. This machine alone can wipe out this entire fleet." lol. I laughed when he said that!
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28 / M / Bay Area CA
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Posted 4/22/13


Gargantia doesn't have the luxury of high ideals, until now they have nowhere to run to, there is no safe harbor. Not being compliant with the pirates or showing to much force means a direct assault on the entire population of Gargatina. This world they live in is one born of necessity not one of choosing to be at the mercy of powerful military armada. The fleet commanders are extremely cautious with their actions because the consequences mean putting thousands at risk.
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26 / M / Shirley, NY
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Posted 4/22/13

tommythecat wrote:



Gargantia doesn't have the luxury of high ideals, until now they have nowhere to run to, there is no safe harbor. Not being compliant with the pirates or showing to much force means a direct assault on the entire population of Gargatina. This world they live in is one born of necessity not one of choosing to be at the mercy of powerful military armada. The fleet commanders are extremely cautious with their actions because the consequences mean putting thousands at risk.


That necessity is what makes them hypocrites, though. Telling Ledo that killing is wrong and yet saving the option for themselves is very hypocritical. As Arondell1 already said, the commander objects to Pinions idea because he's afraid of possible retaliation. So what does that mean? If the possibility of retaliation wasn't present, he would agree to throwing Ledo overboard? What does that mean to their whole "no killing" garbage? Seems like a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black to me.
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22 / In my own little...
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Posted 4/22/13
Its refreshing. the little bits that make it believable like not knowing the language, someone raised as a soldier killing without a second thought. It's really nice to have a hero that doesn't whine and just decides to go out there and kill em all.
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42 / M
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Posted 4/22/13

tommythecat wrote:

Gargantia doesn't have the luxury of high ideals, until now they have nowhere to run to, there is no safe harbor. Not being compliant with the pirates or showing to much force means a direct assault on the entire population of Gargatina. This world they live in is one born of necessity not one of choosing to be at the mercy of powerful military armada. The fleet commanders are extremely cautious with their actions because the consequences mean putting thousands at risk.


This is actually the best interpretation of the Gargantian's motivations. It is not in fact entirely unreasonable. Though I obviously disagree on the extremity their of caution in some respects. I feel it caused them to make sub-optimal decisions during the 3rd episode conflict if nothing else. It could be argued that they had been cautious for so long that when a golden opportunity to break the status quo in their favor fell into their lap they couldn't see it for what it was. Except for perhaps Bellows. Simply put they took to much counsel of their fears.
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23 / M / This Dying World
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Posted 4/22/13
hmm.... it took 3 episodes for fans to make naked fanart a bit slow, it just shows how much time, detail and respect people have for the anime.

Yes, I just used nudity as a medium to form a argument for describing this series.
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28 / M / Bay Area CA
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Posted 4/22/13

theguzzz wrote:
That necessity is what makes them hypocrites, though. Telling Ledo that killing is wrong and yet saving the option for themselves is very hypocritical. As Arondell1 already said, the commander objects to Pinions idea because he's afraid of possible retaliation. So what does that mean? If the possibility of retaliation wasn't present, he would agree to throwing Ledo overboard? What does that mean to their whole "no killing" garbage? Seems like a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black to me.


Their ace in the hole is not a part of their crew and in fact has his own selfish reasons for being there as he explained to them. Suppose they wipe out the pirate fleet(which again could mean killing of innocents such as forced laborers and slaves), Ledo at this point has no ties with Gargantia meaning he could up and leave for space at any moment or switch to a different fleet that will meet his needs better. Gargantia becomes a giant target for not only pirates in other areas but of other relatively peaceful fleets wanting this superweapon tech for themselves.

There is reason and logic to the commanders being overly cautious and decide against annihilation and perhaps some of that is the fact that human lives are in short supply so they are precious on a water planet earth. However even beyond that, how is systematic genocide of an entire "nation-state" armada a choice that is okay to make on a whim? The commanders not only face direct consequences but unforeseen ones as well if they make rash decisions outside the scope of what amounts to political posturing and minor skirmishes between different nations.
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28 / M
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Posted 4/22/13
Watching the latest episode right now, and I'm feeling, I knew Last Exile did not ended there.
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36 / M
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Posted 4/22/13 , edited 4/22/13

Arondell1 wrote:



That being said the second episode clearly showed the pirates murdering Gargantian security personnel, threatening physical abuse including possible rape, and stealing valuable supplies. I felt the Gargantian response to their destruction to be naively self-righteous and a trifle hypocritical. As I recall early in the second episode Pinion suggests attacking Ledo and Chamber and dumping Ledo overboard. The commander objects not because of the sanctity of life or because Ledo hasn't actually hurt anyone but because it might generate a hostile response from any hypothetical comrades Ledo has. Way to hold the moral high ground commander. At least Ledo killed people in your defense who were obviously murderers.


I agree completely. It is clear that the fleet is acting out of its own self-interest, not out of human ideals. This is well and good... Amy and Bellows' reactions were inconsistent with this idea though imo... especially Bellows. He saved you from being raped and killed.... and you're upset he killed the pirates?

Also, one important aspect was left out completely. Ledo didn't act alone. He only moved after Amy asked him for help. It really was her fault.

There is a "Dances with Wolves" tone to the series... I truly hope I'm wrong. But I'm getting the feeling it's going to turn into Ledo thinking how wise and noble these natives are... That would be a terrible cliche.

One thing they could have done... they could have had at least 1 person among the fleet agree with Ledo's actions of killing the pirates. It would have given some more depth to the fleet characters.
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21 / M / With Lucina
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Posted 4/22/13

AnimeKami wrote:

hmm.... it took 3 episodes for fans to make naked fanart a bit slow, it just shows how much time, detail and respect people have for the anime.

Yes, I just used nudity as a medium to form a argument for describing this series.


whoa whoa whoa...WHOA

brb
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26 / M / Shirley, NY
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Posted 4/22/13 , edited 4/22/13

tommythecat wrote:


theguzzz wrote:
That necessity is what makes them hypocrites, though. Telling Ledo that killing is wrong and yet saving the option for themselves is very hypocritical. As Arondell1 already said, the commander objects to Pinions idea because he's afraid of possible retaliation. So what does that mean? If the possibility of retaliation wasn't present, he would agree to throwing Ledo overboard? What does that mean to their whole "no killing" garbage? Seems like a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black to me.


Their ace in the hole is not a part of their crew and in fact has his own selfish reasons for being there as he explained to them. Suppose they wipe out the pirate fleet(which again could mean killing of innocents such as forced laborers and slaves), Ledo at this point has no ties with Gargantia meaning he could up and leave for space at any moment or switch to a different fleet that will meet his needs better. Gargantia becomes a giant target for not only pirates in other areas but of other relatively peaceful fleets wanting this superweapon tech for themselves.

There is reason and logic to the commanders being overly cautious and decide against annihilation and perhaps some of that is the fact that human lives are in short supply so they are precious on a water planet earth. However even beyond that, how is systematic genocide of an entire "nation-state" armada a choice that is okay to make on a whim? The commanders not only face direct consequences but unforeseen ones as well if they make rash decisions outside the scope of what amounts to political posturing and minor skirmishes between different nations.


Except this isn't a battle between nations, its a fight against pirates. Does a fleet of pirates count as a "nation-state" armada? I can understand the concept of making decisions with consequences in mind, but allowing the pirates to ransack them has its own set of consequences. The pirates attacked because Ledo fought back, right? If he hadn't killed them, but still fought back anyway, wouldn't they still come after them to show them "who's the boss"? It doesn't even seem like killing the pirates matters because they pretty much established they don't like others fighting against them. Actually, thinking about that, it kinda makes the whole "no killing" theme a little pointless since just fighting back would bring about the same consequences.
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