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She Was Asking For It - Abuse in Shoujo
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19 / M / Ljubljana SI, EU
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Posted 4/8/13
After reading this thred I came to conclusion that girls are masochists
It's not my opinion but according those posts above I made this statement . . .
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25 / M / Massachusetts
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Posted 4/8/13 , edited 4/8/13
For some reason this thread reminded me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9qmY6TiiCs starting at around 40 seconds in.
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47 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 4/8/13

magicuser360 wrote:


When I say "abuse is okay when it is played for laughs" I mean things like comically getting angry, hitting the other person with giant hammers, giving them flying punches...Like Tom and Jerry kind of abuse, or the whacking that is featured in shows like Spongebob for instance.

Would you call that abuse? Or just comedy?


Honestly I think it's in the eye the beholder. Technically any of that is assualt, and if between persons who have some sort of fiduciary or filial relationship, abuse. Weather or not it's comedy...

Love Hina is supposed to be played for laughs. no human should be capable of punching another down a school hallway let alone into orbit. Keitaro experiencing no lasting harm from being punched to the moon, threatened with katana's and chased by laser weilding flying turtles should be funny, but like you, I don't find it so.

On the other hand Horror based god like entities like Nyarlathotep, Cthuga and Hastur being brought to a cringing halt by a human weilding a fork IS funny to me.

Posted 4/8/13

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


magicuser360 wrote:


When I say "abuse is okay when it is played for laughs" I mean things like comically getting angry, hitting the other person with giant hammers, giving them flying punches...Like Tom and Jerry kind of abuse, or the whacking that is featured in shows like Spongebob for instance.

Would you call that abuse? Or just comedy?


Honestly I think it's in the eye the beholder. Technically any of that is assualt, and if between persons who have some sort of fiduciary or filial relationship, abuse. Weather or not it's comedy...

Love Hina is supposed to be played for laughs. no human should be capable of punching another down a school hallway let alone into orbit. Keitaro experiencing no lasting harm from being punched to the moon, threatened with katana's and chased by laser weilding flying turtles should be funny, but like you, I don't find it so.

On the other hand Horror based god like entities like Nyarlathotep, Cthuga and Hastur being brought to a cringing halt by a human weilding a fork IS funny to me.



I guess in the end, how I feel about it is that I'm usually fine when the abuse is played for laughs/comedy/slapstick. When it is not, I'm not okay with it (and for any gender etc.).
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21 / M / Canada
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Posted 4/8/13
I believe in equality here so if the bitch gets out of line she needs a smack, same with the guy.
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Posted 4/8/13
I think that this thread was intended to address was not so much physical violence, but the "Rape = Love" theme underlying shoujo manga. It's not just shoujo, but yaoi and yuri as well, so basically all kinds of smex written by Japanese women. Even non-rape smex has obligatory protests of "no, you can't", "not there", etc. Smexless shoujo romances have the same themes, just with less penetration.

Apparently the smex universe has different rules from 3D, such as:
1) It's always your loved one's "first time"
2) No means yes
3) Yes means yes
4) If you love someone, you must rape them to prove your love
5) The more you love someone, the more you must rape them
6) The better you are at raping them, the more they will love you back
7) Abduction and sexual torture = marriage proposal

I don't understand the obsession with assaulting the one you love (or loving the one who assaults you), but apparently chicks dig it. If there was no demand, there would be no supply.

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23 / F / Sexual Chocolate
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Posted 4/8/13

kritter09 wrote:

Hello, that's why some are labeled as mature. Most shojo ends with a happy ending with the douche getting the Girl and overtaking a whole personality change. get over it. you don't have to read it. If you think about it, most boys are like that nowadays. Now they are targeting my favorite manga subject. People need to get a life and keep their opinions to themselves. Ok I'm getting out of this forum before I go into full on rant mode...


So it would be your opinion that people need to keep their opinions to themselves?

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47 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 4/8/13

magicuser360 wrote:



I guess in the end, how I feel about it is that I'm usually fine when the abuse is played for laughs/comedy/slapstick. When it is not, I'm not okay with it (and for any gender etc.).


I think we are on the same page. I had love Hina in mind when I thought of anime where it was 'played for laughs' but I wasn't laughing.

That said, I don't think IEDs are funny.

but Lina Inverse and Naga dropping magical nukes on every town they visit is hilarious.

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16 / F / somewhere on mars
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Posted 4/8/13
I've always hated smut mangas. I tend to keep away from them.
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47 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 4/8/13 , edited 4/8/13

mhibicke wrote:

I think that this thread was intended to address was not so much physical violence, but the "Rape = Love" theme underlying shoujo manga. It's not just shoujo, but yaoi and yuri as well, so basically all kinds of smex written by Japanese women. Even non-rape smex has obligatory protests of "no, you can't", "not there", etc. Smexless shoujo romances have the same themes, just with less penetration.

Apparently the smex universe has different rules from 3D, such as:
1) It's always your loved one's "first time"
2) No means yes
3) Yes means yes
4) If you love someone, you must rape them to prove your love
5) The more you love someone, the more you must rape them
6) The better you are at raping them, the more they will love you back
7) Abduction and sexual torture = marriage proposal

I don't understand the obsession with assaulting the one you love (or loving the one who assaults you), but apparently chicks dig it. If there was no demand, there would be no supply.



Heh.. that reminds me of a motivational poster I saw once. "Rape -it's how they say hello in Japan"

I suspect one of the reasons for (2) and perhaps (7) is the dichotomy between expected behaviour and desires. I think a minor part of the psychology fueling some of the tropes you mention is the concept of 'face' and the two - faced nature apparently forced on a lot of Japanese (judging by the themes of their anime/manga)

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Posted 4/8/13 , edited 4/8/13

magicuser360 wrote:


For example, in the ever popular Hana Yori Dango (Boys Over Flowers) manga, the "hero" of the story treats the heroine badly; bullying her, degrading her, slapping her across the face quite a number of times. STILL not to extent of other mangas, but its sickening how the heroine constantly forgives and forgives his actions, yet during the course of the series (a whopping 36 volumes) he apologizes to her about five times. We're constantly told how "strong" and "brave" she is to stand up to him and the gang of bullies that torment her; yet the bullying is downplayed and "normalized" and the heroine still runs after the aggressive male.

And don't even get started on how yaoi plays with abusive relationships. If anything, that is even worse.

Why can't there be more series that feature a normal girl going after not the bad boy, but the nice, normal one that always finishes second best or last?


Actually, she doesn't fall for him until he changes himself. And she does not "forgive," she kicks him in the face.
Posted 4/8/13

TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:


magicuser360 wrote:


For example, in the ever popular Hana Yori Dango (Boys Over Flowers) manga, the "hero" of the story treats the heroine badly; bullying her, degrading her, slapping her across the face quite a number of times. STILL not to extent of other mangas, but its sickening how the heroine constantly forgives and forgives his actions, yet during the course of the series (a whopping 36 volumes) he apologizes to her about five times. We're constantly told how "strong" and "brave" she is to stand up to him and the gang of bullies that torment her; yet the bullying is downplayed and "normalized" and the heroine still runs after the aggressive male.

And don't even get started on how yaoi plays with abusive relationships. If anything, that is even worse.

Why can't there be more series that feature a normal girl going after not the bad boy, but the nice, normal one that always finishes second best or last?


Actually, she doesn't fall for him until he changes himself. And she does not "forgive," she kicks him in the face.


He doesn't really change. He is still rude, mean, spoiled and a bad boy. She forgives him multiple times saying "I'm so sorry" or "I was wrong" or something along those lines. Never "HE was wrong and HE should apologize".

Despite this, she is not a weak, passive crybaby - but she does overlook the treatment far too easily.

If his treatment of her was comical, that would be another matter.

It isn't.
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Posted 4/8/13 , edited 4/8/13

magicuser360 wrote:

If his treatment of her was comical, that would be another matter.


So this line got me thinking, "Are there any examples of abuse of a female character (that aren't slapstick) being played off as comedy." After thinking for a moment I think i've found one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M38iRWWQmdc

Starting at around 3:40 the episode shifts focus to cosmic chew toy Sakura and her hilariously abusive childhood in which she is frequently molested and abused. The whole thing is meant to be so horrific that you can't take it seriously with Sakura even pointing out at the end that having a tragic past is really her only character trait and how by fixing it she has no character.

It's not a perfect example, but I think it illustrates what an effect the author's intent can have. Or maybe it doesn't and i'm just tired and making connections where there are none.
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Posted 4/10/13

magicuser360 wrote:


TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:


magicuser360 wrote:


For example, in the ever popular Hana Yori Dango (Boys Over Flowers) manga, the "hero" of the story treats the heroine badly; bullying her, degrading her, slapping her across the face quite a number of times. STILL not to extent of other mangas, but its sickening how the heroine constantly forgives and forgives his actions, yet during the course of the series (a whopping 36 volumes) he apologizes to her about five times. We're constantly told how "strong" and "brave" she is to stand up to him and the gang of bullies that torment her; yet the bullying is downplayed and "normalized" and the heroine still runs after the aggressive male.

And don't even get started on how yaoi plays with abusive relationships. If anything, that is even worse.

Why can't there be more series that feature a normal girl going after not the bad boy, but the nice, normal one that always finishes second best or last?


Actually, she doesn't fall for him until he changes himself. And she does not "forgive," she kicks him in the face.


He doesn't really change. He is still rude, mean, spoiled and a bad boy. She forgives him multiple times saying "I'm so sorry" or "I was wrong" or something along those lines. Never "HE was wrong and HE should apologize".

Despite this, she is not a weak, passive crybaby - but she does overlook the treatment far too easily.

If his treatment of her was comical, that would be another matter.

It isn't.


Example???
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18 / M / Stoke, England
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Posted 4/10/13
I've never seen this abusive shit in a manga before, this is all news to me.
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