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Post Reply Disappoint with the service in Latin America
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Posted 4/16/13
PLEASE!!!!


STOP USING GOOGLE TRANSLATE



- The subtitle of many series are terrible, Or the translations are wrong and a few series have a good translation...



Anyway about the series.


At least is possible to release more serie for North America?

(Canada, USA and Mexico)

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Posted 4/16/13 , edited 4/16/13

Ardilla_del_mal wrote: PLEASE!!!!

STOP USING GOOGLE TRANSLATE

- The subtitle of many series are terrible, Or the translations are wrong and a few series have a good translation...

Pretty sure Crunchyroll themselves don't use Google Translate, but who knows what shortcuts some of their translators might take. Be sure to use the video reporting to report badly translated subtitles ~ its likely that few people at Crunchyroll speak Spanish well enough to double check for themselves, and only reports can tell them which of their translators are doing a good job and which are not doing a good job.


Anyway about the series.

At least is possible to release more series for North America?

(Canada, USA and Mexico)


In international licensing, "North America" means DVD Region 1, not the actual physical North America.



Just like Greenland is part of Europe for licensing, not part of "North America", even though according to the Alexa figures, Mexico is the strongest streaming market in Latin America for Crunchyroll by a large margin, the way that licensing is normally done, its fate is tied with the rest of Latin America.

Blu Ray regions are better in one way, because all of the Americas are in one region, but much worse in a second way, because Japan is in the same region, so the Japanese are reluctant to license for Blu Ray in the Americas for fear of backward importation back to Japan.
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Posted 4/16/13

agila61 wrote:



And CR put this as the wallpaper of our page (a anime i cant see in my area)

That's not wallpaper, that's an ad. That's what pays for the bandwidth for the web pages. Pretty silly of them to buy an ad for a series that probably 30% to 40% of subscribers can't see, but not as silly as some things advertisers have done over the years.


About this, would be possible advertise shows dependig of the users region? It's a bit annoying see shows advertisement that you can't watch (and less effective too).
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Posted 4/16/13

akai_ryu wrote: About this, would be possible advertise shows dependig of the users region? It's a bit annoying see shows advertisement that you can't watch (and less effective too).

I don't know whether the ad revenue that could be made from the second side of a US&Canada / Rest of the World split would be worth the extra programming of the site, and how that would affect the way that Crunchyroll markets the front page background ads.

At present they are sold on the basis of all site visiters, whether guests, free members or subscribers. I think they just sell the ad and let the advertiser worry about how much of the audience is part of the target audience for the ad.

In a way, its kind of like the ads for a game coming out on a specific console ~ non-gamers don't care, and gamers that don't have that console might just be annoyed that the game is not coming out for them, but if the game company was willing to pay for the ad, they get the ad put up. If only 10% of site visitors are interested, I guess they wanted to get to that 10% of the site visitors enough to give the other 90% a free ride.
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Posted 4/16/13 , edited 4/16/13

Ardilla_del_mal wrote:

PLEASE!!!!


STOP USING GOOGLE TRANSLATE



- The subtitle of many series are terrible, Or the translations are wrong and a few series have a good translation...



The Spanish Support team has been saying the very same thing from the beginning: Report any error or bad translated episodes/shows. I do that and they fix them, but It's impossible for them knowing which translators are doing a good job and which ones not without feedback.

agila61, you've said that the simulcasts improved if you compare it with last year's data. BUT, compare it with I don't know... Sweden, they have almost the same lineup as the US, and as far as I know, CR is not officially "open" there, so It's ironic... There is a CR branch on LA but we get less shows than a country where there isn't any CR branch...

And Bjaker, I have a list of shows available that I want translated to spanish, but we should get ALL available shows translated, I think it's the least that CR should do due to the fact that we don't get the same number of simulcast as the US and that we also pay for our premium subscription.

Oh, and sorry for my poor grammar.
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Posted 4/16/13 , edited 4/16/13

Pretty sure Crunchyroll themselves don't use Google Translate, but who knows what shortcuts some of their translators might take. Be sure to use the video reporting to report badly translated subtitles ~ its likely that few people at Crunchyroll speak Spanish well enough to double check for themselves, and only reports can tell them which of their translators are doing a good job and which are not doing a good job




The Spanish Support team has been saying the very same thing from the beginning: Report any error or bad translated episodes/shows. I do that and they fix them, but It's impossible for them knowing which translators are doing a good job and which ones not without feedback.



It's easy to say, all series had bad subs.


And yes, I have reported and seen only slight improvements...



In international licensing, "North America" means DVD Region 1, not the actual physical North America.


Mmm interesting...
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Posted 4/16/13 , edited 4/16/13

edwarx wrote: agila61, you've said that the simulcasts improved if you compare it with last year's data. BUT, compare it with I don't know... Sweden, they have almost the same lineup as the US, and as far as I know, CR is not officially "open" there, so It's ironic... There is a CR branch on LA but we get less shows than a country where there isn't any CR branch...

First, I've erased the apology for the poor grammar, since there's nothing wrong with your grammar.

Second, Crunchyroll is losing ground in most of the world ~ Southeast Asia, mainland Asia, the Middle East, most of Africa, most of Europe ~ so just focusing on the Nordic countries is a little misleading. Plus its a bit misleading to say they don't have a branch ~ the UK site is, in effect, the EU branch site. The only time I've seen the Nordic countries get access that the UK missed out on were when Anime-On-Demand outbid Crunchyroll for UK rights.

Third, for Latin America, what I'm saying is that "year-on-year", Latin America is making progress with free streaming licenses directed to Latin America. EACH season for the past year has been better than the same season the year before, for free streaming (note some of those are off by one for Brasil):

Summer 2011: 5/12
Summer 2012: 9/19. +4

Fall 2011: 3/13
Fall 2012: 5/17, +2

Winter 2011: 6/11
Winter 2012: 11/18, +5

Spring2012: 5/20
Spring 2013: 7/20, +2

The drop for premium members is mostly a case of the "premium members worldwide outside of Japan" and "premium members outside of Asia" licenses not being granted anymore. Where in Spring 2012, it was 5/20 free, 10/20 premium, this spring the new licenses were 7/20 free, 8/20 premium.

However, as long as the free streams keep making progress, year on year, it will eventually catch up to the levels of access that premium members used to get with those "premium worldwide outside Asia/Japan" licenses.

And that +2 this season is not just more series from publishers that already published to Latin America.

After years of never licensing for Latin America, this is the first season that Aniplex included Latin America for one of its licenses. So there is the first sign of publishers that were not on board the Latin American strategy at first starting to get on board.

Indeed, just Showgate alone makes 11 series over the past four seasons that locked out Latin America. Convincing Showgate to start including Latin America in its international streaming licensing would add from two to four series per season.


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Posted 4/16/13 , edited 4/16/13
Again Sorry for the English

Well in conclusion we need to wait and be patients, after reading the answers, i'm sure the CR team is working for give us a better service.
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Posted 4/16/13
"Branch" wasn't the most appropriate word to describe my point... my apologies.

What I meant is that CR is not translating anime to swedish for swedish users, yet they get access to most simulcasts. CR Latin America has a department that translates shows to spanish and they even offer premium memberships in different currencies for our different countries, that makes me think that CR LA should be more important than Sweden, therefore my opinion is that the licesing staff should make an extra effort to get shows licensed for our region.
On the other hand, yes, this season we have 2 more shows than last year's spring season, but we don't have "THE" show of the season "Shingeki no Kyojin" and that pissed off many users (I personally wanted My Teen Romantic Comedy...). The same happened in the past, we didn't get SS Omega (SS is very popular in this region) on 2012 or Hunter x Hunter...

In my opinion the REAL problem is that, if you take a look at the spanish forums, most users think that CR is not taking LA users seriously. The simulcast thing is one problem, the lack of old titles from the catalog (we have like a third or less than US members) is another and the lack of support for the apps to watch anime on other devices (Android, PS3, XBOX, etc) is yet another problem.
Those three problems combined make us feel like they don't care about us... I know for a fact that the guys who manage CR Latin America do their best to solve these problems, but it seems to me that the "big bosses" in the US do not listen.

So... even if we "improved" in simulcasts numbers compared to last year, when you take in consideration the other problems I listed in the previous paragraph, not having X show simulcasted for our region makes some of us want to complain in the english forum instead of the spanish one.


@Ardilla_del_mal The first shows simulcasted have bad subtitles but the latest ones have decent subtitles, so if you're going to complain AT LEAST name the shows you're referring to, I've watched 7 of the new simulcasts and I don't have any complains, and trust me, I'm very picky with that stuff.
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Posted 4/17/13 , edited 4/17/13

edwarx wrote:

"Branch" wasn't the most appropriate word to describe my point... my apologies.

What I meant is that CR is not translating anime to swedish for swedish users, yet they get access to most simulcasts.


Given the high share of the population with reading knowledge of English and the small media markets for content in Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Finnish, and the substantial early roll-out of 1.5MBs DSL speed internet access, the Scandinavians were an appreciable share of Crunchyroll's early subscriber base, before Crunchyroll went legit. And with Naruto coming out worldwide outside Japan, a number of them stayed around when Crunchyroll went legit.

And of course in 2009, every time a new license was announced that was North American only, they were vocal in complaining about it in the forums.

And remember the costs of the lawyers, because a licensor cannot take the legal risk of signing a contract without having the lawyers vet the contract. A couple of hundred viewers might be worth it, if it takes ten or twenty additional minutes for a lawyer to vet the contract. 5,000 viewers would not be worth it if it requires a lawyer to go wading through contracts all day to make sure there are no rights conflicts.

Except for a handful of broadcast licenses, the Japanese licensors almost never license to Scandinavia, so depending on the way their existing European contracts are written, for many of them Scandinavia was a blank hole with no need to change contract language to add it to their standard UK & Ireland contract region.

So for those licensors that (1) already cut R2-European rights into language areas, and (2) didn't have any Scandinavian rights outstanding in any contracts, adding Scandinavia to their standard UK & Ireland streaming terms does not cost very much lawyer time, so its easy to do. We know that they don't always add Scandinavia to UK rights, so it seems likely there are some licensors that have written contract language with language like "All of Europe except ..." and Scandinavia has been blocked out of some licenses because of that conflict.


CR Latin America has a department that translates shows to spanish and they even offer premium memberships in different currencies for our different countries, that makes me think that CR LA should be more important than Sweden, therefore my opinion is that the licesing staff should make an extra effort to get shows licensed for our region.


But that ignores the fact that it may not take as much effort to get shows licenses in Scandinavia. Plus the upgrade in Scandinavian access took place over a year ago, and there hasn't been any much progress for Scandinavia since then. The only thing was some of the series where Anime-On-Demand outbid Crunchyroll for the UK, Crunchyroll got Scandinavia independent of the UK, but without Anime-On-Demand, those would have just been regular UK+Scandinavia licenses.

In fact, every time you see an announcement with "US and Canada" at the front of the region list and Latin America near the end, there is a chance you are seeing the result of Crunchyroll spending extra effort to get Latin America added to a license. So for Gargantia, its:

U.S.A., Canada, United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Netherlands, Spain, South Africa, Turkey, Central & South America, and Portugal.

That means that the original agreement was probably the English Speaking Countries plus Northern Europe, and they then went back and were able to add Spain, Turkey, Central and South America and Portugal. That's especially likely to be a second round of negotiations on their part because the announcement originally left out Latin America, so Latin America might even have been added in a rider that was signed after the original contract was signed (with Portugal coming along for the ride along with Brasil).


On the other hand, yes, this season we have 2 more shows than last year's spring season, but we don't have "THE" show of the season "Shingeki no Kyojin" and that pissed off many users (I personally wanted My Teen Romantic Comedy...). The same happened in the past, we didn't get SS Omega (SS is very popular in this region) on 2012 or Hunter x Hunter...

In my opinion the REAL problem is that, if you take a look at the spanish forums, most users think that CR is not taking LA users seriously. The simulcast thing is one problem, the lack of old titles from the catalog (we have like a third or less than US members) is another and the lack of support for the apps to watch anime on other devices (Android, PS3, XBOX, etc) is yet another problem.
Those three problems combined make us feel like they don't care about us... I know for a fact that the guys who manage CR Latin America do their best to solve these problems, but it seems to me that the "big bosses" in the US do not listen.


But its a 30 person company! Whomever is the top of the LA department would be exactly one step below the top boss.

In bad news to good news order ...

(1) The lack of old titles just is not going to change anytime soon. Catalog titles get a lot fewer views. That means that most catalog titles on the site are either promotional streams by R1 DVD distributors. or simulcasts with licenses that "roll over" until the licensor has another licensee for the streaming rights.

The R1 DVD distributors only have "North American" (so-called) streaming rights, so they cannot grant Latin American rights. With so few Latin American DVD distributors, and none of them using Crunchyroll to stream their catalog titles, the promotional streams are not going to be able to get Latin American rights added until there are a lot more Latin American members, so the minority that will watch a particular catalog title are enough viewers to pay the lawyers costs plus something extra to the Japanese rights owners.

And there is an unfortunate accident for the "rollover" licenses. A lot of the Latin American simulcasts in 2010-2011 were from Kadokawa. And it seems like they did not have the rollover deal in all of their contracts, because a lot of the Kadokawa series from that period have been taken down. So fewer Latin American rights in the rollover series from 2009-2012 than for the average country.

Unless there is a breakthrough, maybe from the Daisuki joint venture in Japan, that hole in the Latin American catalog titles will be there for long time.

And remember ~ don't just compare to Scandinavia when they do better than Latin America. Scandinavia has the same shortfall in promotional catalog titles as Latin America.

(2) Its normally the high profile series that have the worst regions. For the titles that are not getting any interest from North American and European DVD distributors or from the international broadcasters (Animax, Southeast Asian TV, etc.), getting their series on Crunchyroll is the only available way to get some international rights income, and the best way to try to get the attention of the DVD distributors. For titles that have DVD distributors and/or broadcasters talking to them, Crunchyroll is an after thought, and if the regions have been sliced up six different ways, the only one that Crunchyroll can afford the contract (lawyer) cost for is the one that includes North America.

The "big titles" are probably going to see progress more slowly, but Japanese business involves a lot of personal relationships, and as licensors make more and more money from Crunchyroll licenses on series where Crunchyroll is the only source of international income, they are going to get more and more consideration on the high profile titles. So the more licensors have written Crunchyroll contracts including Latin America for lower profile titles, the more likely they will bundle North and South America together for simulcast streaming rights with higher profile titles.

Attack on Titan might be direct bad news for Latin America, but its indirect good news. Its almost sure to be Crunchyroll licensing in parallel with Funimation, which means that the Crunchyroll license agent was talking directly to the Japanese rights owner. That is much better than Crunchyroll sub-licensing from DVD distributor, because Crunchyroll can say, "if we can get Latin American rights, we can add this much to our Minimum Guarantee," directly to the Japanese licensor.

Improved simulcast access in each season from Summer 2012 to Spring 2013 means progress in getting higher profile titles is coming. It may take another two or three years before its the normal thing, but its coming.

(3) I heard on the premium forum that Crunchyroll's Android programmer has been on leave. Once they are able to put their complete device programming team in place, I'd bet you $10 that the transition to multiple subtitles on the apps and consoles will get started sometime this year. Now, remember I'm just a long time subscriber and outside observer of innovation in New Media companies, so this is just my gut feeling.


So... even if we "improved" in simulcasts numbers compared to last year, when you take in consideration the other problems I listed in the previous paragraph, not having X show simulcasted for our region makes some of us want to complain in the english forum instead of the spanish one.

People should complain in whatever forum they want to complain in. Being quiet and suffering is no way to find out what is going on.


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Posted 4/17/13
I fully understand what you say, and although I really hate to admit it, I know you're right.

I always like to use analogies to illustrate my thoughts, to me CR LA is like "Hey, Sony opened the PS Store for my country, but they only sell Fifa 13"... I think that pretty much that sums it. We got an international website to open bussiness in our region, but we are not gettin' almost any content and we see other regions gettin' more content than us and we feel like we're being mocked.

In response to 1, many latin american members state that if the catalog is not increased, they won't pay for a premium membership, and you're telling me the opposite, if the number of premium members doesn't increase they won't license old shows... It's a vicious circle...
LA has almost no DVD distributors, in fact, in my country (Argentina) the only anime shows that you can buy legally on dvd are Cowboy Bebop and the new Evangelion movies (and only on DVD, not on BD). (Probably some Ghibli movies too but I'm not sure). There is almost no market for anime DVDs, and that's why we see online streaming as a solution to watch anime legally.

BTW, I've always wondered why Funimation does not release their R1 DVDs/BDs with spanish subs, many american shows (Big Bang Theory, Breaking Bad, etc) support spanish language in their R1 releases...

In response to 3, It's funny and sad at the same time, months ago the Android app did not support spanish subs and many users complained. Now it does, but only the first episode of every (licensed) show is available.
Bjaker 
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Posted 4/17/13
Hey everyone!

Back now and working to catch up! I apologize for not jumping back in here until today, it was just a little crazy trying to catch up on emails from the weekend.

With older shows getting subtitles, we'll need to approach the publishers and renegotiate contracts. We have to obtain the rights to translate into Spanish before we are able to. This is why I asked for specific titles.

Just based on your requests, I'll pass the following list along to our Licensing department.

A Dark Rabbit has Seven Lives
Ano Natsu de Matteru (2)
BLASSREITER
Dear Boys
Demon King Daimo
Fairy Tail (2)
Gosick (5)
Hayate the Combat Butler! (Season 1 & 2) (4)
Japan Tourism Anime Channel
Level E (2)
Lucky Star (2)
Mizu no Kotoba
Moritasan wa Mukuchi
My Ordinary Life (2)
Pale Cocoon
Puella Magi Madoka Magica (2)
Saki
School Days (2)
Shugo Chara (3)
Skip Beat
Squid Girl
Star Driver
Super Robot Wars OG The Inspector
Tegami Bachi Letter Bee (3)
The Idol Master
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (3)
The Mystic Archives of Dantalian (3)
The Tower of Druaga, The Aegis of Uruk (4)
The Tower of Druaga, The Sword of Uruk (3)
The World God only Knows (3)
Venus to Mamoru (2)

Silent Films that can be made available with the page set as Spanish
La Maison en Petits Cubes
Traveling Daru

In regards to TBS, Showgate and Media Factory.

I understand that you are concerned and wish to direct correspondence directly to these publishers. Please know that our licensing team is working directly with them to expand the regions they license to, so that we can offer more shows to you.

Again, please remember that our service for Latin America has only just reached the end of its first year this month. We've shown a lot of growth in terms of content and users. We have more simulcasts for Latin America in its first year than we did for the English version of Crunchyroll.

We're continuing to work with all parties involved in Japan to educate and promote the strength and potential of offering content in Latin America.

I'm gonna meet with our Licensing guy this afternoon to go over this list to see if I can give any immediate feedback on the requested list above & will see if he has an update on the prior mentioned bit of news.

Best,
Baker

(Sister's wedding was really great. First time I had seen my family in almost two years. Everyone was beautiful & she thought it was awesome when I said "Latin and South America say Congratulations!".)
Bjaker 
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Posted 4/17/13


Spanish language is supported on Android.

The language the app will use is based on the language that the Android device is set to.

If you could point out a show where it will only have Spanish Subs on the 1st episode, I can investigate further there.
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Posted 4/17/13 , edited 4/17/13

edwarx wrote:

I fully understand what you say, and although I really hate to admit it, I know you're right.

I always like to use analogies to illustrate my thoughts, to me CR LA is like "Hey, Sony opened the PS Store for my country, but they only sell Fifa 13"... I think that pretty much that sums it. We got an international website to open bussiness in our region, but we are not gettin' almost any content and we see other regions gettin' more content than us and we feel like we're being mocked.


But you are also only looking at regions that were already getting a substantial share of content in 2010/2011. Look at other parts of the world that were like Latin America, relying very heavily on a few licensors with broad regional license. Look at the Middle East (free streaming only):

Season: Latin America | Middle East

Summer 2011: 5 | 5 out of 12
Summer 2012: 9 | 1 out of 19

Fall 2011: 3 | 3 out of 13
Fall 2012: 5 | 2 out of 17

Winter 2012: 6 | 0 out of 11
Winter 2013: 11 | 4 out of 18

Spring 2012: 5 | 4 out of 20
Spring 2013: 7 | 2 out of 20

Not only is Latin American free streaming (slowly) moving in the right way when you look at the numbers on their own, but its also doing very well when compared to the Middle East, Africa outside of South Africa, Europe outside of the UK & Northern Europe, and all of Asia.


In response to 1, many latin american members state that if the catalog is not increased, they won't pay for a premium membership, and you're telling me the opposite, if the number of premium members doesn't increase they won't license old shows... It's a vicious circle...
LA has almost no DVD distributors, in fact, in my country (Argentina) the only anime shows that you can buy legally on dvd are Cowboy Bebop and the new Evangelion movies (and only on DVD, not on BD). (Probably some Ghibli movies too but I'm not sure). There is almost no market for anime DVDs, and that's why we see online streaming as a solution to watch anime legally.

There may be chances to work out package deals to boost the catalog ~ especially for longer running series where a single deal can add a lot of episodes at once. That is the normal way to get contracting costs down.

But just like in the UK, Scandinavia, Autralia, New Zealand and South Africa, the primary reason to subscribe is for the simulcasts and the extra features that go along with subscribing. Indeed, even in the US, there are several streaming sources that are very competitive with Crunchyroll's catalog, but nobody holds a candle to the range of Crunchyroll's simulcasts.


BTW, I've always wondered why Funimation does not release their R1 DVDs/BDs with spanish subs, many american shows (Big Bang Theory, Breaking Bad, etc) support spanish language in their R1 releases...

The broader the expected market, the more that the US Spanish speaking market justifies adding a spanish sub. Plus for titles that originate in Hollywood, there are distribution channels that want Spanish subs available, so they often have to do them anyway. And just like Japanese rights owners sometimes can sometimes include sharing an English sub in their rights, so they get an English sub to add to their Japanese release, the US rights holder to a Hollywood production might sometimes be getting the sub from a Spanish language localization.


In response to 3, It's funny and sad at the same time, months ago the Android app did not support spanish subs and many users complained. Now it does, but only the first episode of every (licensed) show is available.

When I compare how much Crunchyroll gets done on multiple fronts to the sluggishness of a company like Barnes and Noble, I'm always impressed.
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Posted 4/17/13
Thanks again, Bjaker!

So as regards as TBS, Showgate and Media Factory is concerned your anwer means that Crunchyroll don't believe it would be a good idea that we do this, right?
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