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Post Reply Valvrave the Liberator Discussions (Seasons 1 and 2)
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Posted 6/21/13 , edited 6/21/13

botogamer wrote:

Anyways thanks for reading bro, you sir are a trooper! Haha

Anytime; and you got it right.

I mostly asked because Valvrave started as camp before moving on to deconstruction, and both those angles are aimed more or less at people who are already fans of a specific genre. It feels a lot like Ichiro Okouchi (the writer of Valvrave, and of Code Geass as it happens) watched Guilty Crown and went "That looks like fun, but I think I can do it better."

So I was a bit curious if the show just wasn't cut out for you to begin with, since pretty much everything you've listed as a favorite anime in your profile that I recognize leans much more towards heavier seinen, which is in a very different league (Fate/Zero, Berserk, Samurai X, etc.). And if that was the case discussing it further would be kind of pointless.

As it stands though, my understanding of Valvrave is basically that someone made up a huge list of generic tropes and cliches from the mecha genre, and then played an intense game of corrupt-a-wish with that list. So if you already object to the list, it's unlikely the show will interest you. But if not, seeing how those tropes are subverted can be fun.

For example,

Most of these kinds of shows tend to drag out their subplots and pick and choose between the others.
Most of these kinds of shows are averse to sex or in any way really taking on romantic relationships.
Most of these kinds of shows have protagonists who wallow in self-depreciation and psychological trauma.
Most of these kinds of shows say "the good guys will win so long as they believe in themselves."
Most of these kinds of shows reward characters for acting on spur of the moment feelings.

Valvrave races through its subplots with tropes and cliches at a crazy pace.
Valvrave included sex and has already followed it up with a marriage proposal.
Valvrave has a protagonist who had the opportunity to self-destruct but didn't.
Valvrave has a bunch of naive students who can't survive without relying on L-Elf.
Valvrave continually punishes or nay-says such behavior (Haruto, Shoko).

But they twist every one they touch in some way.
But it was a rape (including two main characters).
But his trust in whats right might backfire on him.
But L-Elf is mostly just using them for his own ends.
But rewards those who work through it (Kyuma).

What you said about believability is interesting because that's the thing I hated second most about Code Geass, but I think in both our cases it might be that the spell of the show was broken early and that left us unable to buy into its internal logic. For my part I watched the first 6 episodes to make fun of them, but 7-11 have made perfect sense to me.

There was a very strange shift there from camp to deconstruction where, like you said, the audience was expected to take things more seriously. But not really in a realistic or "seinen" sense, I think. More like "this is going to be a serious show among its genre." So not like Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica, for example, which transcended its genre.

(By transcended I just mean it left literal mahou shoujo pretty far behind and became its own thing).

(And I don't really expect Valvrave the Liberator to do that by any means).

So far I've kind of liked seeing a shounen-like knock-about anime take itself a bit more seriously in an ironic/satirical sense. I thought seriousness hurt Code Geass a lot, and that Guilty Crown's shaky plot didn't adequately support the aim of its content, but so far Valvrave has taken off surprisingly well for me; at least after episode 7.

But planes are better when you're inside them, instead of chasing one across the tarmac trying to get on.

In any case, it might be that your seat is just on a different plane.

Edit: I'm also chalking up the festival to referencing the one in Guilty Crown (and it'll probably subvert it in some way).
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Posted 6/21/13
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Posted 6/22/13 , edited 6/22/13

Rito2Ru wrote:


maffayoo wrote:

just caught up from 1-11 very interested in this anime :)


And here I thought you weren't gonna watch this from what you posted last page


its a good anime overall i love romance and the romance seems strong with this one

also i'm not sure it was "rape" as some people say if the girl is willingly then its not.. she pretty much opened up and then after she isn't letting him talk about it because she doesn't need an apology. she totally wanted the D


I may get some hate for saying it's not but its totally debatable
Posted 6/22/13
what did Haruto actually mean by saying .. Marry me to rukino ...!! lol
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Posted 6/22/13
The plot line to this show is just bonkers at this point. I honestly can't take anything seriously. Not a character death, not a rape, not even whatever happened this episode. It seems so dead set on ruining Shoko it's a bit depressing to watch. "How is Shoko going to get screwed this week?" almost seems to be the going thing at this point.
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Posted 6/22/13
This anime is just a joke. The expression 'jump the shark' was made for plotlines like this.

Its just nihilistic shock value. They don't explain half of what they do. And mostly its a cheap trick to garner attention from viewers(which is working)

It reminds of one crappy anime that had a sex scene with the main characters in the first chapter and then went to your typical boring nothing happened romance manga(Anything to get serialized I know, but still pretty pathetic)

So first its True blood with robots in space. Followed by being immortals, followed by a weird dual rape, followed by murking first girls father, followed by marriage proposal to rape victim/victomizer second girl.

At this point I'm expecting giant space Orangutans to come and help them fight against Dorssia, and for L-Elf to come out and surprise everyone as an android from the future.
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Posted 6/22/13

Ohime-sama03 wrote:

what did Haruto actually mean by saying .. Marry me to rukino ...!! lol


What it says on the tin. marry me


kassler wrote:

This anime is just a joke. The expression 'jump the shark' was made for plotlines like this.

Its just nihilistic shock value. They don't explain half of what they do. And mostly its a cheap trick to garner attention from viewers(which is working)

It reminds of one crappy anime that had a sex scene with the main characters in the first chapter and then went to your typical boring nothing happened romance manga(Anything to get serialized I know, but still pretty pathetic)

So first its True blood with robots in space. Followed by being immortals, followed by a weird dual rape, followed by murking first girls father, followed by marriage proposal to rape victim/victomizer second girl.

At this point I'm expecting giant space Orangutans to come and help them fight against Dorssia, and for L-Elf to come out and surprise everyone as an android from the future.


L-Elf to come out being an android probably right there LOL..

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Posted 6/22/13 , edited 6/22/13
woohoo !!! rock and roll !!

I cant say I am not entertained
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Posted 6/22/13


Well done sir. Well done.
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Posted 6/22/13
LOL AnimeKami lol indeed
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the South Bay
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Posted 6/22/13 , edited 6/22/13
lol
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Posted 6/22/13

kassler wrote:
At this point I'm expecting giant space Orangutans to come and help them fight against Dorssia, and for L-Elf to come out and surprise everyone as an android from the future.


Yeah, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if this does happen. :)

lol @AnimKami. Nice!

So much of this is just plain silly that I try and not think about it. And I despise using rape as a poor plot point. Oh well.

The only thing I'm interested in seeing explained is how Liselotte, the princess of Dorssia, is related to the system in the Valvraves.
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Posted 6/22/13
I agree that this has gone from camp to WTF onto a full deconstruction. I don't know if it has or will go far enough to construction where I could see it as one to watch over again to look for cues and clues but the first time through I agree that it is immensely entertaining. I will certainly watch the last episode of this cour and the next cour as well. They have done what you need to do to keep me interested...

Give me questions! Leave me wondering... and leave the answers open to something fun, something good! Unlike Gargantia which may surprise me but really seems to have painted itself into a corner where the only answers are going to be unfun and bad.
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Posted 6/22/13
gargantia thread with it's speculation ruined 50% of the peoples expectations...

anyways, I wonder if it was a ploy to confuse the shit out of the audience pre ep 7 and then start to get good.

At least to me ep 7 was the turning point anyone else? if not which ep?
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Posted 6/22/13

AnimeKami wrote:

gargantia thread with it's speculation ruined 50% of the peoples expectations...

anyways, I wonder if it was a ploy to confuse the shit out of the audience pre ep 7 and then start to get good.

At least to me ep 7 was the turning point anyone else? if not which ep?


I think episode 7 was the turning point for me too, after the high school musical stuff...

But I think a good show should not only survive speculation, it should thrive on it! And Gargantia just wilts under the pressure. This show OTOH, we've been totally spoiled lately but IT DOESN'T MATTER. Knowing the proposal and attack didn't ruin it at all. AoT is like that for me too, knowing the manga, knowing how smart and yet dumb it is doesn't ruin it. Same with Valvrave. Gargantia somehow walks a very narrow path and soon as it veered off it just crashed for me.
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