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Would you buy anime if the U.S. anime localization industry shifted to a business/sales model like the Japanese anime ma
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42 / M / Canada
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Posted 4/19/13

Man_Of_Leisure wrote:

And stay off his lawn!


I don't give a hoot about my lawn, just keep your mitts off my anime LOL
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31 / M / South of sanity.
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Posted 4/19/13
Haha, nice
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41 / M / Canada
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Posted 4/19/13
I don't think I could justify paying what I pay now if I was just getting 2 episodes a disc. At the very least I expect 4 or 5.

Mostly now I wait for the full season box sets, a few like Madoka I get by the volume as they are released but I still consider the fact that I am paying more than I should simply because my "want" for the series exceeds my common sense.

I forked more than $40 for the first 2 episodes of FLCL when it first came out in North America. Could never bring myself to buy the rest cause as much as I loved it, the price was just too high and I already had the Torrents on my computer.

I can now get the entire series for just over $35, which I did because that's a much more reasonable price and I do still love the series.


Simply put there is a Line

once the price for something goes over that Line you stop being willing to pay for it and look for other ways to get it.

I might be willing to pay a bit more for Music CDs and some cool extras but mostly I want the series itself.

I am really hoping there is a release of Symphogear with a music CD. I'll gladly pay extra for that because I loved the music of that series

but I more than anything I expect to get at least 5 episodes a disc when I buy it, if not a full series box set.

bhl88 
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26 / M / USA
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Posted 4/19/13
I just buy a little a month.
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27 / M / London, UK
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Posted 4/19/13 , edited 4/19/13

hpulley wrote:

Manga publishers don't have their fingers in the jar, they often are the major producers of the anime so they take a big cut of the anime profits and obviously take their manga profits as well.

I repeat, it isn't overpriced. It is priced on the supply and demand curve to pay for the making of the show. There are big hits that make big profits like the Monogatari franchise and surprise hits like Girls Und Panzer but most on average most shows hope to make a profit and many do not.

It is easy to store and swap discs, I think you are kidding yourself there. You put a series of discs on a shelf. They are labelled. You take the one off the shelf that you want, put it in the player, watch, remove disc, put back on shelf. Pull next disc off shelf... Repeat. Seems simple to me.


As established in interviews, an anime costs something similar to a low-budget cable show in america to produce ($200-300k per ep). It's also well-known that airing of an anime boosts manga sales, which was the point I was making. For the simplest hint of this, take a look at Bakuman, an anime that's meant to tell a little about the industry shows exactly this take place. Though there's plenty of evidence grounded in reality as well. Common business sense also backs this up; it's become a quick buck.

Also, I can't accept suggestions that it's not overpriced based on demand, because the very model itself prevents us from knowing the actual demand and, is so far removed from where the average price-point is elsewhere that you couldn't even drop the prices a little to see if the curve had changed, the industry has dug itself into a hole that now only the brave can attempt to escape from. Speaking personally, I know perhaps 10 people who enjoy anime as much as other media, I don't, however, know a single one that would pay the Japanese prices for said anime, even though they happily spend on Blurays for film and TV.

As for purchasing, storing and swapping discs, I again disagree. You need to dedicate shelf space and, if you've watched as much anime as I have over the years, probably dedicate a small room to the storage of the multitude of boxes with each disc containing only 4 episodes. You then have the hassle that if you've purchased a collection of DVDs you're probably going to want to replace it all with Blurays and, even though you've purchased the creative content, you have to do so all over again. You then have the concern of damaging or misplacing the goods every-time you go for another box (the XBox for example is a prolific scratcher of discs).

To place all this into context, One Piece has received the mass-market treatment and a 4 episode disc costs 3,500yen ($36), one quarter of the cost of animes in the current season. It costs $128,000 to produce an episode of One Piece, meaning the sales of the DVD compilation box sets in Japan alone recover the costs of producing the anime, let alone minor income from ads, merchandising, blurays, volume sales and the affect it has had on manga (there's 3.8 million readers in Japan alone now). And that's just Japan. More to the point, I wonder just how many more of those 3.8 million readers might purchase a disc if the prices had been lower? Right now they're achieving a manga to boxset conversion rate of only 0.8%, significantly below the conversion rate found in most industries from a potential consumer pool.

From a disc point of view, had I been collecting in volumes, I'd have 150 boxes for this anime alone racking up a total of $5,400 for standard DVD quality.

Regards box art, it's for some, it's not for me, I'm interested in the core product, typically this is what limited editions exist for.
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27 / M / Atlanta, GA, USA
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Posted 4/19/13
I only own a few anime DVDs and definitely wouldn't have bought those if they were even a little more expensive. It's already a tough choice whether or not to just pick up a random swords & sorcery novel instead.
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Posted 4/19/13
I'm kind of a penny pincher, so I'm going to have to decline. I might make an exception if it was a show that I HAD to have, but otherwise I just can't justify the prices. The only import I have is the Time of Eve blu-ray, and that's only because Directions was awesome enough to make it available to North America and for a decent price. I do respect those who do import though.
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24 / F / Jus sitting at th...
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Posted 4/19/13 , edited 4/19/13
Well I would only buy shows that I really REALLY love cause I am not spending no $300 on shit.

I don't really like how Aniplex does things with their imports cause they go OOP in like a day after the release. Its just easier to buy it from CD Japan or Amazon Japan its cheaper and there will always be copies...well not always. Although I see Aniplex being the only distributor around in the US in the future cause of their imports and insane pricing models.

So I think its just better if the R1 companies should just stick to their current model imo besides I'm already planning to import Gundam AGE, Gundam Unicorn, Code Geass: Akito, and Gundam SEED Remaster when I finall get a job cause its on bluray and I don't want to pay $100 for OOP sets from Bandai USA with no extras and SD quality. xD

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20 / M / Free World Jail
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Posted 4/19/13

hpulley wrote:


Man_Of_Leisure wrote:


hpulley wrote:
It is easy to store and swap discs, I think you are kidding yourself there. You put a series of discs on a shelf. They are labelled. You take the one off the shelf that you want, put it in the player, watch, remove disc, put back on shelf. Pull next disc off shelf... Repeat. Seems simple to me.


This guy gets off his couch


I'm over 40 years old, I remember when we had to get up off the couch to CHANGE THE CHANNEL! And the convenience of our first WIRED remote... at least you never lost it in amongst the couch cushions.

Having multiple disks means multiple covers with beautiful artwork! For us, opening each box, looking at the art every time we view the discs... this is part of the fun. Multiple booklets with wonderful art, character pages, storyboards, interviews of cast and staff, multiple bonus CDs, sometimes posters, bedsheets, cards, cell phone dangly thingy mabobs that don't even go on my phone because we don't hang crap off our phones here, figures and other goodies. You can say they are overpriced junk but one man's garbage is another man's treasure and I treasure the artwork and bonus CDs.

And the extras like event footage, seiyuu interviews, bonus OVA episodes. All worth it to me! If the discs were nothing more than the TV episodes packed together in TV quality I wouldn't buy them. When I buy an anime movie sometimes that's all they are, the movie on a disc with no booklet and I do feel ripped off. But anime TV series makers understand their buyers: we want the exclusives, we live for them. A disc in a box is NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Not for the price they charge.

For Bakemonogatari I got the boxed set which only has 3 disc boxes and 3 little booklets with no bonus CDs. It was cheaper than getting the individual Limited Editions but you know what... it wasn't worth it! I can't justify owning the boxed set and scrounging eBay for the LEs too but now I wish I'd bought the LEs so it is LE only for me for now on. If I'm going to own it, I'm going to own it right.

But if all you want is a TV season in a box... by all means get your cheap boxed set.


dat commitment
The Wise Wizard
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54 / M / U.S.A.
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Posted 4/19/13

Man_Of_Leisure wrote:

It's kind of bizarre how the industry works. They have a model in japan which apparently works but it doesn't fit how the U.S and many other countries function in the slightest.

My understanding is that the publishers in Japan stumbled across this model by accident.

As existed in the days of VHS here in the United States, early anime video releases were "priced for rental". The difference was otaku were actually paying those prices to own the series. One reason for this was that in many cases, no later release at pricing for home ownership was planned. (I get the impression that regardless of price, fewer Japanese purchased video as opposed to renting, perhaps due to the smaller average size of Japanese homes and apartments putting a premium on storage space for same).




hpulley wrote:
It is easy to store and swap discs, I think you are kidding yourself there. You put a series of discs on a shelf. They are labelled. You take the one off the shelf that you want, put it in the player, watch, remove disc, put back on shelf. Pull next disc off shelf... Repeat. Seems simple to me.

If one is willing to thumb their nose at the DMCA, you can have discs on the shelf and never have to touch them to view a series...even for Blu-ray.




hpulley wrote:
I'm over 40 years old, I remember when we had to get up off the couch to CHANGE THE CHANNEL! And the convenience of our first WIRED remote... at least you never lost it in amongst the couch cushions.

LOL.

I had forgotten that most people here are young enough they likely have never experienced a TV without a remote control. I remember the first one I had day to day experience with was an roommate's old model that used the Zenith remote that worked off sound (i.e., it had a literal "clicker") instead of infra-red...and that was in the mid-80's.



Back on topic, I'm not much of a buyer of physical anime, which is one reason I can honestly say I that over the past few years, I've imported more than I've purchased domestically. That is because I've imported two discs to date, and those are the only discs (not even limited to just anime) that I have purchased in years.

The prized discs in question? Discs 8 & 9 of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS. This was a test purchase, as since the series never shipped with English subtitles, unless I can add them, the value will be limited to me. If I find a way to do that which isn't terribly time consuming, then I plan to purchase the remainder of the series a few discs at a time (after which some company in the U.S. will no doubt finally license the series).

I did economize in one aspect; As the region for DVDs for the U.S. and Japan is different, and the Japanese R2 discs had no English subtitles, I purchased the licensed Taiwan R3 discs instead. These still were not cheap (an average of around $24 per disc), but were quite a savings over the cost of the discs from Japan (around $70 each).

To be honest, if the Japanese discs had included English subtitles, it is very likely I would have paid the almost 3 times greater price.

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Posted 4/19/13
My dvd collection is in the 300-400 disc range.... at japanese prices for entire seasons I doubt I'd own 10disc. $700 for an entire series is way too much.
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21 / M / Ohio
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Posted 4/19/13
if i had the money sure id buy some anime if i dont have money ill jsut get it the free way unitl i can afford it
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42 / M / Canada
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Posted 4/20/13 , edited 4/20/13

TheAncientOne wrote:
...

hpulley wrote:
It is easy to store and swap discs, I think you are kidding yourself there. You put a series of discs on a shelf. They are labelled. You take the one off the shelf that you want, put it in the player, watch, remove disc, put back on shelf. Pull next disc off shelf... Repeat. Seems simple to me.

If one is willing to thumb their nose at the DMCA, you can have discs on the shelf and never have to touch them to view a series...even for Blu-ray.
...

I'm in Canada and can't even remember the name of our equivalent of the DCMA and whether ripping to my personal media center is allowed or not. Doesn't matter to me, this isn't what I want anyway.

As I said, checking out the covers, booklets, cards, etc. every time I open the box is much of the fun. If I was going to rip them to my personal media center and watch them with my butt cheeks firmly attached to the couch, leaving the boxes on the shelf... if I didn't enjoy touching the physical media then I might as well just pirate the darn things and download them. Once you've ripped them, what is the point of putting them on a shelf? Display of some sort I suppose but if you are never going to open them you might as well box them and put them in the attic... The physical media is the fun for me.

And having no subs! Many R1 releases have mandatory English subs when choosing Japanese audio to prevent re-importation of the cheaper north american releases. I hate the subs and love Japanese. Love reading the booklets and bundled novels in Japanese. For me much of the reason for importing Bakemonogatari and Vividred Operation was because Crunchyroll had hard subs I couldn't turn off. What a relief to see it without subs!

And 1080p when Crunchyroll only offers 480p or 720p is another reason. Again, what a relief to see LoveLive! and Bakemonogatari in 1080p! But LoveLive! has the same subs as Crunchyroll so if you want you can turn them on too.

I am not convincing anyone to buy imports here so I will just have to agree to disagree with the rest of you. I have justified the cost to myself. I enjoy the 8GB 1080p files, no subs and physical media. If you do not want to buy imports or local releases that are expensive, then do as you please and justify it as you will...
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Posted 4/20/13 , edited 4/20/13
Yeah, I'd probably still buy the same amount. It's more like, right now, I just enjoy lower prices than I would be willing to pay. Actually, a switch to the Japanese model might be nice given the extra goodies there. In fact, my plan is to learn Japanese so I can import at those prices. Obviously not because of the prices, but because there's not only more of a selection, but there's also more stuff in the product. I just don't have the necessary knowledge to enjoy it yet. With that said, I'm still importing some shows with English subs, and I just started importing soundtracks and singles for shows a few months ago.

And I'm not sure why people are so convinced the prices are high. I work full-time minimum wage -- most of which goes towards rent, some of which pays for college (granted, I've got scholarships to pay for a lot of it), and some that goes toward anime. I have NO PROBLEM buying anime, and it's not even like I don't spend it on anything else. I still go out with friends, but I don't hit the bars every weekend, my clothes are fashionable, but simple and well-made, and I don't eat out all the time. Plus, there's also the fact that I don't own a car (It's completely a side remark, but I'm pretty sure a car is one of the biggest wastes of money you can possibly own -- just by not owning a car, I save a couple hundred dollars a month, and it still only takes me 15 minutes to get to work -- a few hundred dollars a month adds up to a lot of anime, but that's a rant for another time). It's really quite cheap at those prices when you consider how enjoyable the product is.

Edit: To be fair though, I am running on empty as far as money goes -- normally I've got some in savings, but I spent way too much last month. So in all fairness, perhaps my argument isn't the most valid given that, right now, I have no money. I'll be fine in a couple of months though once I can build back my buffer.

Edit 2:

hpulley wrote:

As I said, checking out the covers, booklets, cards, etc. every time I open the box is much of the fun.


One of the most underrated elements of physical media. It's almost embarrassing how much I like looking at the artwork on the disc and case before I put it in. And then I can flip through the artbook or inserts while it's loading. It's really a much more enjoyable experience than watching online or digitally.
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28 / M / Bay Area CA
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Posted 4/20/13 , edited 4/20/13

hpulley wrote:


I am not convincing anyone to buy imports here so I will just have to agree to disagree with the rest of you. I have justified the cost to myself. I enjoy the 8GB 1080p files, no subs and physical media. If you do not want to buy imports or local releases that are expensive, then do as you please and justify it as you will...


I feel like you're taking people with a converse opinion of the anime industry as a slight against you. The problem with the cost is it far and beyond that of any other media I can think of and there is no choice but to pay those prices besides CR, pirate, or waiting for someone to license it and slap a reasonable price on it. The extremely high barrier of entry is very easily to blame for the low sales of less popular titles and that most of them are rehashed garbage doesn't help, but just take a look at extremely popular series selling 20k-50k+ like SAO and *monogatari's it's not as though there isn't demand for anime while those are outliers the point remains the same. There are plenty of people out there that would likely buy more of it if it didn't mean 50k yen per 12 episodes.

I love anime but no one will ever convince me that the Madoka movie bluray is worth 120 dollars and just because people are willing to pay it doesn't make the price reasonable. I pay comcast $70 for crappy internet because I have no other choice, give me a choice and I'd gladly switch. That sort of thinking wont happen though in the anime industry because they all are hoping for that next SAO at current prices so they can laugh all the way to the bank.
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