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Would you buy anime if the U.S. anime localization industry shifted to a business/sales model like the Japanese anime ma
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42 / M / Canada
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Posted 4/20/13

tommythecat wrote:


hpulley wrote:


I am not convincing anyone to buy imports here so I will just have to agree to disagree with the rest of you. I have justified the cost to myself. I enjoy the 8GB 1080p files, no subs and physical media. If you do not want to buy imports or local releases that are expensive, then do as you please and justify it as you will...


I feel like you're taking people with a converse opinion of the anime industry as a slight against you. The problem with the cost is it far and beyond that of any other media I can think of and there is no choice but to pay those prices besides CR, pirate, or waiting for someone to license it and slap a reasonable price on it. The extremely high barrier of entry is very easily to blame for the low sales of less popular titles and that most of them are rehashed garbage doesn't help, but just take a look at extremely popular series selling 20k-50k+ like SAO and *monogatari's it's not as though there isn't demand for anime while those are outliers the point remains the same. There are plenty of people out there that would likely buy more of it if it didn't mean 50k yen per 12 episodes.

I love anime but no one will ever convince me that the Madoka movie bluray is worth 120 dollars and just because people are willing to pay it doesn't make the price reasonable. I pay comcast $70 for crappy internet because I have no other choice, give me a choice and I'd gladly switch. That sort of thinking wont happen though in the anime industry because they all are hoping for that next SAO at current prices so they can laugh all the way to the bank.


I had hoped to find more like minded individuals but it seems there are few to none.

Personal slight? No but we are certainly not understanding or even believing one another. Hence, the agreeing to disagree. Posted too much on this and all else already so... I should really stop.
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Posted 4/20/13 , edited 4/20/13

tommythecat wrote:

just because people are willing to pay it doesn't make the price reasonable.


I'll agree that it's very probably better and more reasonable for the companies to lower their prices, but really, the only actions I can affect are my own, and if that's the case, then being willing to pay a price means that I believe it is reasonable to pay the price which means, by definition, that the price is reasonable.

Of course, just because the price is reasonable for my share of the market, doesn't mean that it's reasonable for the entire market, and I think that's where we'd probably agree. While I'm fine with buying series that I really like at those prices, I stay completely away from shows that I just simply find "good" because it's not worth that price. I feel like either way, I'm going to buy the premiums for shows I like, but if there's a show that's on the borderline of purchase, I might buy it if it were cheaper, and I feel like there's a lot of people that are the same. If they offered a premium set and a bare-bones set for cheaper, then at least for me, they'd definitely make more money. I'd spend the same on the best shows, and I'd spend more on just the good ones. I feel like a lot of people are similar. Plus, It seems like right now, they're only concentrating on the part of the market that wants the more premium set, and I feel like they'd buy premium either way, whereas with two versions, they can break into the more casual market. Of course, it's not as though I don't understand why they do it the way they do currently. If the people that spend the money now begin spending less, then you're losing money given that those people are the entire market, which is pretty fair to say for something as niche (even in Japan) as anime. I don't think there's any data to say that more money would be made at lower prices. But that's more because there's just no data at all on the alternative. I don't know.

All I can do is make decisions for myself, and I find the pricing reasonable, so I'll spend my money that way. Whether it's good for the companies to lower the prices though, is beyond my capacity to determine. I'm just ignorant.
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29 / M
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Posted 4/20/13
Buy anime? Not happening.
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33 / M / Planet Sanno
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Posted 4/20/13
This is a good discussion.


Things are worth as much as people are willing to pay for them but if that low amount that US folks are willing to pay won't finance a show that doesn't get much if any ad revenue then it will eventually stop being made. Is that what you want?


That is not what I want, but that is what already happened. Most of the localizers who made the industry big in the U.S. back in the late '90s and early '00s are gone nowadays. (Sentai Filmworks is the exception, since I understand they are essentially ADV Films under a new name.) The business is now adapting to a niche that is of reduced size and financial capacity, hence streaming services like this. People like to own things on disc, but the prices have always been high (by U.S. standards), and the idea of them going higher is a no-win situation for our niche. Yes, it supports the industry, but only a relatively small niche of people had that kind of money back before the recession. ($30 for a VHS tape? I remember.) Nowadays? That niche is much, much smaller.


They are expensive indeed but it is all about choices. You have to choose what to spend your money on and I'm choosing anime and manga. Other people like to spend thousands on vacations or fancy clothes but I would rather not.


And what if the choice is between anime / manga ... and keeping the pantry stocked and the bills paid? For me, for example, $6.95 (U.S.) a month is great. For the price of a (cheap) twelve-pack of beer, I can watch things that I used to have to pay $20+ a disc for. The days when I could afford anything in that price range – up to $200 for a series, perhaps less if the one-season boxes are on sale – are long gone, and there are likely to be many people in the same boat here. I am thankful for the opportunity to continue enjoying a hobby here that I thought I would have to give up.

Not saying that you are wrong on this, Pulley. I think it is great that you are going out of your way to support the industry, and I wish more of us could do the same. Sadly, we cannot, so we have to make the most of the opportunities we do have.
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44 / M / Covington, KY
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Posted 4/20/13 , edited 4/20/13
Try to rip off your customers, and formerly paying customers will turn to piracy, or just stop consuming. Corporate greed there will bankrupt companies there just as it did here. It looks like anime producers in Japan think that their customers are not only suckers, but suckers with unlimited disposable income. Even if the former is true, the latter is not.

Ultimately, entertainment is worth no more than an audience decides it is, no matter what a seller wants. Entertainment is not like food clothing and shelter. It is a frivolous thing we can and will due without if it is overpriced. Right now, a monthly subscription to Cruncyroll is about all I am willing to pay. If the price doubled, I would drop it. I would probably never do Funimation.com again, as their sit crashes all the time, and seems to have no more bandwidth than a dial-up modem.

As for buying DVD and Blu-Ray, it has to be a really great show I would want to watch again and again, not something I will watch only once. That excludes about 95% of available titles.
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M / United States
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Posted 4/20/13
Aniplex is already following this model, and I hate them for that. To get Fate/Zero, sub only, costs pretty close to a grand for the whole thing.
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21 / M / Arizona
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Posted 4/20/13
Since we are talking about Japanese DVD/Blu-ray prices. Why is it that they have remained so high when compared to US prices?? I realized we do not get all the fancy little nit-bits they get though that really does not bother me.
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27 / M / Bay Area CA
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Posted 4/20/13

Tmaxxer wrote:

Since we are talking about Japanese DVD/Blu-ray prices. Why is it that they have remained so high when compared to US prices?? I realized we do not get all the fancy little nit-bits they get though that really does not bother me.


There continues to be people willing to pay those prices, if you look at any other blurays on amazon.jp they are priced pretty normal when compared to a US release so this isn't some difference about the price of media. This is specifically an anime issue.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 4/20/13

hpulley wrote:

I'm in Canada and can't even remember the name of our equivalent of the DCMA and whether ripping to my personal media center is allowed or not. Doesn't matter to me, this isn't what I want anyway.

As I said, checking out the covers, booklets, cards, etc. every time I open the box is much of the fun. If I was going to rip them to my personal media center and watch them with my butt cheeks firmly attached to the couch, leaving the boxes on the shelf... if I didn't enjoy touching the physical media then I might as well just pirate the darn things and download them. Once you've ripped them, what is the point of putting them on a shelf? Display of some sort I suppose but if you are never going to open them you might as well box them and put them in the attic... The physical media is the fun for me.

My reply was moreso directed at those that objected to having to handle physical media, but don't you ever experience times where you want to view a specific scene? For such situations, does it seem worth the time to go get the disc, wait for the player to start up, find the scene, all just to view it?

The simple fact is ripping it gives choice. In my case it also allows overcoming the different region coding.



And having no subs! Many R1 releases have mandatory English subs when choosing Japanese audio to prevent re-importation of the cheaper north american releases. I hate the subs and love Japanese. Love reading the booklets and bundled novels in Japanese. For me much of the reason for importing Bakemonogatari and Vividred Operation was because Crunchyroll had hard subs I couldn't turn off. What a relief to see it without subs!

Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to me. While I can understand a few often used phrases, I am a long way from being able to watch anime without subs. I doubt it will happen in my lifetime.




theYchromosome wrote:
Plus, there's also the fact that I don't own a car (It's completely a side remark, but I'm pretty sure a car is one of the biggest wastes of money you can possibly own -- just by not owning a car, I save a couple hundred dollars a month, and it still only takes me 15 minutes to get to work -- a few hundred dollars a month adds up to a lot of anime, but that's a rant for another time).

I agree with you on that. I believe on the basis of hours of use vs. money spent, my car probably has the worst ratio by far of any of my major purchases (i.e., items that cost more than about $200). Unfortunately, in the city I live in, there really isn't a practical alternative.

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Posted 4/20/13 , edited 4/20/13

TheAncientOne wrote:


hpulley wrote:

I'm in Canada and can't even remember the name of our equivalent of the DCMA and whether ripping to my personal media center is allowed or not. Doesn't matter to me, this isn't what I want anyway.

As I said, checking out the covers, booklets, cards, etc. every time I open the box is much of the fun. If I was going to rip them to my personal media center and watch them with my butt cheeks firmly attached to the couch, leaving the boxes on the shelf... if I didn't enjoy touching the physical media then I might as well just pirate the darn things and download them. Once you've ripped them, what is the point of putting them on a shelf? Display of some sort I suppose but if you are never going to open them you might as well box them and put them in the attic... The physical media is the fun for me.

My reply was moreso directed at those that objected to having to handle physical media, but don't you ever experience times where you want to view a specific scene? For such situations, does it seem worth the time to go get the disc, wait for the player to start up, find the scene, all just to view it?

The simple fact is ripping it gives choice. In my case it also allows overcoming the different region coding.

Specific scenes? Almost never as I try to only buy series in which I love every second of the show. Chapter select and fast forward are good enough for the rare time I do want to find a particular scene. My Japanese windows laptop plays R2 DVDs which are the only other region I ever want or need so again I have no need to use ripping to avoid region coding of strange stuff like English subbed discs for the Taiwan market. I don't even have a computer BD player with which to rip so once again: I have no need for ripping, I just don't do it.

Silly me though. It is better to admit that you like the hair service and hairgasms in Crime Edge than to admit that you like import discs. Better to admit to being a LoliCon than to being a PhysicalMediaCon... An ImportCon / PhysicalMediaCon is the worst kind of fetish freak it seems. When will I learn to keep my mouth shut about my strange obsession with imported discs? Never it seems...
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M / Under your bed
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Posted 4/20/13
doubt it. americans are used to cheap prices.
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52 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
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Posted 4/20/13
Depends on income ... on a normal level of income, there are a few series I would buy, while on poverty wages I simply couldn't afford Japanese prices.

I don't buy many anyways, but I definitely buy more series at US first release prices than I would be interested in buying at Japanese first release prices.
bhl88 
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Posted 4/20/13

Tmaxxer wrote:

Since we are talking about Japanese DVD/Blu-ray prices. Why is it that they have remained so high when compared to US prices?? I realized we do not get all the fancy little nit-bits they get though that really does not bother me.


They still follow an old model in the US (rent model).

Even if they lower the prices, it doesn't guarantee that people would buy them.
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52 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
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Posted 4/20/13 , edited 4/20/13

Tmaxxer wrote: Since we are talking about Japanese DVD/Blu-ray prices. Why is it that they have remained so high when compared to US prices?? I realized we do not get all the fancy little nit-bits they get though that really does not bother me.



bhl88 wrote: They still follow an old model in the US (rent model).


Quite. That was back in the early days of VHS, but they originally priced most VHS copies of big Hollywood movies hoping to get their money from sales to video rental stores. Disney was one of the ones that started pricing their series to primarily target direct home video sales, since little kids often like watching a familiar movie over and over again.

In Japan, the anime industry in the 90's experienced a boom based, in part, on the home video rental market, and so the market of anime collectors that emerged were collectors willing to pay home video rental store prices.

Now the home video rental stores have declined, alongside TV advertising revenue, and many series rely primarily on the collectors market.


Even if they lower the prices, it doesn't guarantee that people would buy them.

Quite ~ since its less common for Japanese to collect home video ~ the anime collectors are a relatively small niche in the Japanese population ~ its quite possible that the increase in sales in Japan would fail to make up for the reduction in earnings per unit.
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26 / M / USA
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Posted 4/20/13

hpulley wrote:

I said yes but that is because I IMPORT TODAY. I only buy Japanese import anime, nothing localized for north america. So I don't mind the prices. I like supporting my shows DIRECTLY and that means I don't mind the import prices which are set up under the assumption that the disc sales are the largest contributor to recouping the cost of making the show. Buying localized discs does not directly support the show as usually a much smaller fee has been paid for home video rights.



When you import are they subbed?

I never really bothered to check, if they do what sites do you use to order :)

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