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Post Reply Evangelion: 3.33 You Can (Not) Redo Discussion
mipegg 
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Posted 4/25/13 , edited 4/25/13

Man_Of_Leisure wrote:

I was disappointed to be honest. It's like a movie made by someone who watched the series and didn't understand it. All the basic elements are there but none of the nuance. I had the same gripe with the 2nd movie, but too a much lesser to degree. For example Asuka is all ass kicking in this because that's what people want from her. She was very vulnerable in the series though. I also get the feeling that they're having way to much fun with the huge budget. All the weird 3D shots don't add anything extra, and some of the action was unintelligible, although thats probably because I watched a shitty streaming version. The TV series had a cinemetic quality that made everything seem epic. I hate using that word since since it became such a buzz phrase, but that's the truth of it, the scale of it was huge and it didn't require 3d or shit loads of CGI or super complex angel designs. They embraced the mech aspect of it and disregarded the complex emotional relationships of the characters.

They could still turn it around of course. It has all the makings of a fine second act in terms of setup, but I was disappointed compared to the first and second movies which were pretty amazing.



In relation to Kaoru:



I would agree with you on the story aspect though, far too much just introduced without explanation or even a basis in the previous films/series, eg the wunder, WTF is with that thing? And I do agree that the whole plot seems a little convoluted, just things such as



I'm hoping that most of these odd inconsistancies are because eva 3 and eva 4 were intended to come out together so eva 4 will have all the explanations we want, but Im not looking forward for the wait!

I would say that the second film was just a masterpiece though, brilliantly voice acted and animated, great plot which doesnt have the usual eva trappings of bullshit and zero explanations but still gives a great cliffhanger and all the nuance you expect from NGE, and that scene at the end with the kids song just sticks in my head so much
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Posted 4/25/13 , edited 4/25/13
Here are some things from that thread I posted a link to on the second page of this one:




neeka-desu wrote:


UltraOtaku wrote:

I'm still really enjoying the rebuild but I have a lot of complaints about this movie. It felt rather sluggish to me. Also, a lot of stuff appears and then disappears without much insight.
As you said, most of the movie is just Shinji. Most of the other characters only get a couple minutes with a handful of dialogue. I felt Kaworu was the worst offender since I was really looking forward to seeing more of him (one of the major highlights of the remake movies for me is Kaworu from start to finish). But as it turns out he didn't do very much and he looses most of his "otherworldly insight". I mean, in the other two movies it seemed like he knew everything that there was to know. But in this movie he couldn't see an obvious trap from a mile away. What's worse, once he DOES see whats going on he just kinda clams up and doesn't actively try to stop it.
I also kinda take issue with the information we are given in this movie. It's exceptionally blunt. Characters literally just tell Shinji flat out what's going on and why. It seems to me like these movies lack the subtlety of the original series. I understand that's why some people are enjoying the rebuild more than the original...but it's just a big turnoff in my book.
But, I think most of my complaints will be exclusive to this movie. This was kind of the "middle" of the series and the first movie where practically everything was different. I'm really hopeful that the fourth movie will correct many of the mistakes this movie made by giving us the insight and character interactions this movie lacked.


Yes I know what you mean! And I know! Why didn't Kaworu put more of an effort and stop Shinji?! Well we know from Kaworu:
But I can see why you were put off from it, I was too at first but after thinking about it (and watching it again), I can see why Hideki Anno might have went in this direction. I think when 4.0 comes around I think it'll be more similar to the anime series again.

Thanks for you input! :D


It won't be similar, it'll be 100% new content. Ok.. 90%. Anyway, here's some replies from the other thread I posted.


Nioos wrote:

Let's just say it's far from what most would expect even for the reputation the Evangelion franchise has. But in my opinion, the entire plotline was a bit shaky since everything easily could have been resolved if:



Yeah that was a flaw. You'd think Misato would think of that. She probably did, but knowing her she wouldn't act on it. It'll probably all get better in the fourth installment though. Hopefully. I want a happy ShinjixAsuka pairing unlike in the TV series and EoE movie. No jacking off to your love interest's comatose body and no pushing any attempts at intimate connection away. I like the time skip in the third film in that it creates a lot more contrast and new understanding to the characters. When you peel all the surface identities though you see they haven't really changed at all.


Nioos wrote:

Actually, I'd disagree on the characters not changed at all. From 3.0, I'd say Asuka's more mature and actually seems to want to save everyone not for her selfish reasons, but for everyone's sake.


Well of course they changed, but their base characters still exist. Of course Asuka's more mature - she's had 14 more years to develop as an individual than Shinji has. In that though, she still has her reasons. She's still selfish, she just doesn't show it directly. Like when she confronts Shinji for the first time in 14 years, she slams her fist on a window letting her anger get the best of her. She avoids his questions with criticism and vague excuses. Later, she expresses to Mari her feelings about it, about Shinji, although not directly. This can also be seen through hints and other clues over the course of the movie and definitely at the end. As for Misato, she may be more aggressive than before, but she still runs away from her problems. She neglects to tell Shinji anything and threatens to kill him if he tries anything but when the time comes she hesitates both times. This can be viewed as a sign of guilt from what happened at the end of 2.0 or something similar. Maybe she is disheartened over the fact that she almost helped in starting Third Impact when she encouraged Shinji and is hiding from that fact. You have to read past the actions of the characters to get to their cores and deduce them.


jaxems wrote:

Honestly, I enjoyed Evangelion. I would buy it and watch it again. Definitely a great show, but I have a few problems with it. It's by no means perfect like some people seem to think. The still frames nearing the end of the series. The religious symbolism that was just crammed into the show to give it an "exotic" feel. The less than likable cast of characters. Shinji's revelation at the end that pretty much amounts to "I hate myself, but if I didn't hate myself I could be happy. THAT'S IT! I'm gonna stop hating myself." to me anyways. That's what I got out of it. The movie being a "f*ck you" to the fans, and Anno pretty much telling people that the show means what you can get out of it since I don't even think he can make sense out of it.

That being said, it's still a classic and one of the most influential series I can think of


The religious symbolism was mostly unintentional, it was put there to look cool. Budget constraints such as still frames and hiding character's mouths with things like coffee cups so they don't have to animate the lip flaps (that goes for the TV series also). Yeah, the movie was pretty much a big 'Fuck you' because of all the whining and death threats Anno had gotten regarding the TV series ending. Death and Rebirth isn't even worth mentioning, watching End of Evangelion gets you the same thing with more to it. If it was perfect, it wouldn't be as widely known as it is. Anyway, regardless of anything it is still a classic and very influential. For me, I would have to say I liked the characters, just for their more realistic personalities. I liked how damaged all of them were, no sunshine and rainbows here. The anime Gunbuster (also directed by Anno) has similarly conflicted characters, they are actually regarded as prototypes for some of the Eva characters. What I draw from Evangelion is that you should learn to accept yourself and who you are, that being hurt is a part of growing up, connections with others are necessary for development, amongst other things. But yeah, Anno basically says to interpret Eva as you want, whether he understands it fully himself hasn't been directly stated. Being the creator he does offer his own insight into it though. In contrast to the anime itself, the manga version illustrated and written by Yoshiyuki Sadamoto (character designer for Evangelion) has a bit more likable versions of the characters among other things. For example, Shinji in the manga adaptation is much more violent (sometimes physically) and troubled than his anime counterpart as well as more of a smart-ass and cynical towards other characters like Asuka, who he isn't afraid to show hatred for and call an ungrateful bitch. He still views Rei in the same light, not in a romantic sense but more of a platonic sense. Asuka, in turn, is also different than her anime counterpart. Her origins are changed significantly and she is a bit tamer towards others but is slightly more physically violent and has a better relationship with Shinji as time goes on. With Rei, she responds to human contact more openly and comes off warmer than her anime counterpart; it is also strongly implied that she develops romantic feelings for Shinji and her desire to not be viewed as a doll makes her stand out more as an actual person.


jaxems wrote:

You're right, if it weren't for it's flaws the show wouldn't be nearly as talked about as it is. I really respect the show, which is why I'll buy it. I never bothered with Death and Rebirth, I heard it was pretty much a recap of the series. I might check out the Evangelion movies sooner or later, but I am pretty interested in the manga. So I'll be reading that once I catch up on the manga I just bought.


I view the manga, TV series (along with End Of Evangelion), and Rebuild of Evangelion all as separate incarnations of the same thing and as their own stories. I think you'll enjoy the Rebuild films, they're definitely action-packed and a breath of fresh air. I have hopes that the relationship between Shinji and Asuka won't end as badly as in the TV series, what with both of them drawing deeper into their own depressions and abandoning their self-worth. The Re-Take doujin is a nice rendering of their pairing, an overall happier one, after all is said and done that is. I think in all of them Shinji and Asuka have at least developed a mutual friendship with one another, if nothing else.





neeka-desu wrote:



Basically everything neeka-desu said. Most of the workers at Wille are probably all younger than Shinji, Asuka, Misato, Ritsuko, Maya, Mari, and the others on the previous NERV staff. 14 years ago most were just little kids and after Shinji unwittingly instigated Third Impact they had to live in a world populated by even less people and practically every life-bearing environment destroyed. It doesn't really surprise me that they'd resent him. It doesn't surprise me that Shinji felt he was a useless waste of space after treatment like that from practically everyone he previously knew before. Remember, for him, its at the most only been a couple of days since the end of 2.0. For everyone else its been 14 years. I would also have to agree of no further character development from the main cast to an extent, but I also believe all of that is under the surface. For example, Misato is probably haunted by guilt and Asuka is battling her repressed feelings towards Shinji, Mari is still Mari, and this new Rei is basically back to square 1. Asuka commented how this Rei is from an early batch of Ayanami clones but if there's any significance to that it hasn't been shown. Also, Asuka uses the term Lilin, instead of humans, and again any significance to that has yet to be shown. Kaworu had to die because he was the First and Last Angel, he said it himself. Fourth Impact would only stop if the catalyst was stopped and that happened to be mainly Kaworu with Shinji as a back-up measure. The whole point Gendo and Fuyutsuki lead them to believe the Spears would prevent Fourth Impact was so they would actually start it. As for the two spears, one is the Lance of Longinus and the other is probably the Lance of Cassius (I believe the new Lance seen in 2.0). Kaworu believed both were down there, which they probably were at some point, but breaching Central Dogma could have triggered something to turn them both into Lances of Longinus. In the flashback of Misato and Second Impact there were four Lances of Longinus present wielded by the Adam-like Angels. They tell you where Rei II went, she's still inside Eva Unit 01 with Yui Ikari. It's probably a similar state of existence like Shinji had when he got sucked into Leliel (12th Angel) in ep 16 and after Eva Unit 01 consumed Zeruel's (14th Angel) S2 Engine and he was stuck inside an Inner Universe dimension inside Unit 01 in ep 20 of the TV series. I think what they meant to do was give you a seemingly steady new plot in 1.0 and 2.0 then throw everything at you incoherently in 3.0. If you watch Final without watching 3.0 that would be taking away from the experience plus I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make sense. At the very least some significant information would be missing.




neeka-desu wrote:


lol she probably www. I missed her saying "anta baka" in the movie. I mean she did kinda say it but not like how she normally does


I think she mostly says 'gaki' or 'warugaki', which means an immature person or a brat. Of course, she uses it to mean brat and that basically replaces all of her anta baka phrases in the movie except for a few. It shows that she's matured because she looks down on him as an immature child but still uses anta baka, showing how much she cares for him (in her own way) and that she still isn't quite that mature yet.



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Posted 4/25/13 , edited 4/25/13

mipegg wrote:


In relation to Kaoru:



mipegg 
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Posted 4/26/13

Man_Of_Leisure wrote:


mipegg wrote:


In relation to Kaoru:





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Posted 4/26/13
Well I just finished watching it.

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Posted 4/27/13 , edited 4/27/13
hey check out a new 3.33 movie review! thoughts?

http://www.troowear.com/project/troo-review-evangelion-3-33-not-redo/

also note it's spoiler heavy!

I was really confused about the series of events...a lot of questions in this review sum up my own.
Posted 4/27/13
BD rips are out there now. As for the enjoyment factor, it seemed like a decent setup to the final film.
fermix 
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Posted 4/27/13
Is there any news on when 3.33 will be released in the US?
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Posted 4/27/13 , edited 4/27/13
Here's my basic thoughts on the franchise:

Neon Genesis Evangelion showed a lot of potential but failed to live up to my expectations because of the unnecessary overload of angst, the poorly written characters (With the exception of Asuka) and the infamous ending. 5/10

End of Evangelion had some great action scenes and was a wonderfully surreal mindfuck. Although in retrospect, it still wasn't a good way to end the series even if it was a Hell of a lot better than the show's ending. 8/10

Evangelion 1.0 does a great job of recapping the first 6 episodes with some new animation. I give it an 8/10 since my main beef with the series came from the later episodes.

Evangelion 2.0 was absolutely amazing. Easily the highlight of the entirety of Evangelion. Mari is introduced, the story takes a more logical direction (As opposed to angst and 2deep4u symbolism in the show) and Shinji finally mans up and learns to stop being such a insufferable douche. It dragged a bit at the start, but overall it was a fantastic movie that blows the TV series right out of the water. 9/10

So what did I think Evangelion 3.0? Well about that...

It was awful. All the potential that came from the second movie was destroyed completely. The story is a complete mess and the writing is terrible. Misato becomes a huge bitch, Shinji loses the hint of badass he had in 2.0 reverting back to being a useless pussy and Rei... it's best if we don't talk about Rei. Not to mention the awkwardly executed Kaworu and Shinji scenes that take up about half of the movie. It's going to take a miracle to save this franchise. 3/10
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Posted 4/27/13
I gave the movie a 7/10 out of generosity but I definitely agree that 2.0 was presented MUCH better. There were just too many damn questions that were left without answers. Oh and Shinji is a bitch now along with Misato with her ridiculous personality in this movie.

Well, I guess some people thought was a trainwreck for the story but I just turned my brains off and watched it.
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Posted 4/27/13
At least the art was great, however; the story always ends up leaving me puzzled.
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Posted 4/28/13 , edited 4/28/13
I think I liked this movie more than I should've.

I'm usually stupidly hard to please when it comes to fiction, but 3.0 somehow managed to slip through all my nets.


At this point 3.0 is like a cute furry thing - without even knowing what it is I still want to cuddle it.

Potentially ill-advisedly.


Even so I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I plan on buying the bluray when possible. But it felt a little like Hideaki Anno was trying to out-do Hideo Kojima at being Hideo Kojima. Which seemed strange after how tame the first two Rebuilds were.


In the end I don't mind sacrificing common sense if it's to set up a sweet analogy of some kind, though. Now all that's left is to wait and see if that's actually what's happening, or if the weird was just there for the sake of being peculiar.
mipegg 
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Posted 4/28/13

Insomnist wrote:

I think I liked this movie more than I should've.

I'm usually stupidly hard to please when it comes to fiction, but 3.0 somehow managed to slip through all my nets.


At this point 3.0 is like a cute furry thing - without even knowing what it is I still want to cuddle it.

Potentially ill-advisedly.


Even so I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I plan on buying the bluray when possible. But it felt a little like Hideaki Anno was trying to out-do Hideo Kojima at being Hideo Kojima. Which seemed like a strange direction after how tame the first two Rebuilds were.


In the end I don't at all mind sacrificing common sense and realism if it's to set up a sweet analogy of some kind, though. Now all that's left is to wait and see if that's actually what's happening, or if the weird was just there for the sake of being peculiar.


Well you have to remember that 3.0 and 4.0 were intended to be released at the same time but something held 4.0 production up so they released 3.0 before 4.0 was finished, thats why 3.0 is so much stuff with no explanation in my view. I think we'll get alot of that in a conversation:



But how he can bring this to any kind of a conclusion in 2 hours is beyond me!
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Posted 4/28/13

mipegg wrote:

Well you have to remember that 3.0 and 4.0 were intended to be released at the same time but something held 4.0 production up so they released 3.0 before 4.0 was finished, thats why 3.0 is so much stuff with no explanation in my view. I think we'll get alot of that in a conversation:


But how he can bring this to any kind of a conclusion in 2 hours is beyond me!

I didn't know that - although I had heard that 3.0 was pushed back considerably since Hideaki Anno basically decided to scrap and rewrite it almost in its entirety. That might've just been hearsay, though.

I'm also really keen to see how he wraps it up in 4.0; and all the theories people will have about how he'll do it.
mipegg 
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Posted 4/28/13

Insomnist wrote:


mipegg wrote:

Well you have to remember that 3.0 and 4.0 were intended to be released at the same time but something held 4.0 production up so they released 3.0 before 4.0 was finished, thats why 3.0 is so much stuff with no explanation in my view. I think we'll get alot of that in a conversation:


But how he can bring this to any kind of a conclusion in 2 hours is beyond me!

I didn't know that - although I had heard that 3.0 was pushed back considerably since Hideaki Anno basically decided to scrap and rewrite it almost in its entirety. That might've just been hearsay, though.

I'm also really keen to see how he wraps it up in 4.0; and all the theories people will have about how he'll do it.


Im pretty sure that was hearsay, it was a rumor from the fact that not much of what was shown at the end of rebuild 2 was in rebuild 3, but that ws also the case with rebuild 1 and rebuild 2 so whatever. And 3.0 and 4.0 were intended to be together, on second watch through (in high quality with probably better quality subs) its better than I thought it was initially, but it has more of a feel of the series than of the rebuild films which makes it seem out of place in my view
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