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Post Reply I give up, I *don't* get the Guilty Crown hate...*spoilers*
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Posted 4/28/13 , edited 6/19/13


Okay. *breaths*. First I warn with utmost sincerity that there is major spoilers here, if you haven't seen the show, do not even bother reading further.

This is not meant to be a lead in to a flame war. A "fanboys vs haters" type battle. I went through this anime rather late (like, in the past week, and then I marathon-ed it once more through entirely). Usually when I finish an anime that I utterly enjoyed to the core of my bones, I generally like to google it and see how others felt impacted in the same way. It's not something that changes how I feel about the series, or affects my personal opinion, nor does it bother me that others have differing ones...but this is truly something else.

What I come to find simply searching google for reception, reviews, blogs, what have you is a gigantic wave of hatred, with very little sympathy nor flexibility to any of GC's shortcomings (of which surely exist, but that's beyond the point here). Essentially, I have become utterly confused by this. As someone who radically enjoyed the series to the point of putting it near the top of my viewing history as one of my favorites (which is a huge deal with the catalog I've been through), I am shocked to read in so many ways that my taste was suck, or that I am easily entertained, or that I'm simply complacent with mediocre anime, plot, characters, whatever. Of course, intellectuals like to speak their mind (ones that prefer to make a difference), so this is honestly how I feel about Guilty Crown, in detail, and why I love this show. I have a few rules however, going in to this, that I will follow, and I hope responding posters will adhere to as well...this is meant to be an intelligent back and forth (if any choose to partake), not an epic showdown to take down the powers that be which have a lot of people unhappy with the show. That being said I understand this show is now old news, so this post may slip in to the nether, or may not even be read seriously. It, in a nutshell, serves as a good discourse for me. Expression is my cure for frustration, I suppose.

- Thou shalt not mention "cliches" in a genre of entertainment unabashedly riddled with them. Good show or not.
- Thou shalt not compare Guilty Crown to other "similar" shows in an effort to undermine Guilty Crown based on "lack of originality", for originality's existence is debatable in the first place (barring the bizarre).
- Thou shalt not flame for anothers' contrary opinion.

Phew. With that out of the way. Let me get this hike rolling. I think I'd like to start by attacking the two major faults pointed out by the vocal "majority" of the internet as reasons for why the series "failed". I'll outline my research as such...

First, that the plot doesn't/ends up not making any sense.

Secondly, that many bland characters are not developed enough in contrast to their potential. Characters with development lack realistic development, and remain unlike-able throughout the series (Ouma as my front and center example).

Let's go with number one. My bland, boring, and succinct synopsis of all the important stuff is something like this...Shu meets Inori who is part of a mysterious underground group who believes their purpose is to take back Japan from the oppressing powers that be, Shu is in-advertantly involved and is accidentally thrust right in to the heat of importance by empowering himself with the void drawing ability. I once heard that with great power comes great responsibility (kekekeke). Shu is a bit of self-proclaimed wimp, couldn't lead a band march, doesn't really have a way with words either so he gets tossed around, barely making it out of all of the scandalous situations he is put in simply because he's blessed with this new power that tends to miraculously save his behind pretty reliably. He spends the first half of the series surviving instead of doing. The first half of the series in a semi-finale resulting in the death of Gai and the supposed temporary halting of the viral spread (or so we thought...).

Then things change a little bit. Inori is captured and the virus is set abound Japan once more in an attempt to re-enact the "Lost Christmas" to its completion. Shu having manifested quite a cereal bowl of feelings for her, is obviously motivated to save her. We're introduced to all the little back story bits about Shu, Mana, Gai, his step-mommy Haruka, Kurosou. All put together we have a childhood memory that envisions Mana as being the very first infected human, and it did more than turn her to crystal, it also sort of messed with her head. She became a glorfied symbol for eyes from above to begin their "purge" of humanity in an effort to recreate (by natural selection as Daath might say) a new, better, more superior race. This obviously doesn't sit well with the current humanity so there is lots of fighting and explosions. Inori is recovered and Shu settles back in to the now cut off Ward 24. In the middle of all this, Shu is locked up at his school with all of his classmates, who soon become aware of his awesome powers, and naturally elect him to lead their survival. This turns sour when one of his close friends bite it in a situation Shu blames on his kindness and lack of order. Gai returns to life (eeeeeeeeh), redeems the kings power from Shu (albeit in a rather morbid way), and many of the students either escape or are killed in the battle resulting from Shu's ultimate plan to escape Ward 24. This is after he is utterly backstabbed as a result of his "mean-ness" as a leader.

Gai starts going with the new world order plan because he believes it coincides with the greater good, Shu wants to save Inori as the princess has now been moved to another castle. Another genome is procured by Haruka which ends up in Shu's hands. He re-infects himself and finally draws his own void which is to take on the weight of everything else. The good guys amass, attack the big scary tower head on, lots of epic final fights happen, the good guy wins, but low and behold, the chick has to die because she actually isn't real, just a copy of the original. We have all these human themes of how one can discover feeling love, etc etc, and in the end Inori defies Shu's thirst for sacrifice and pulls some kind of haymaker that allows Shu to survive...blind and with an auto-mail arm.

The plot is a bit convoluted. This is certainly not deniable. The show also suffers from the age-old "memory-heavy" fillers weighted on to the last few episodes in order to properly dictate the back story, and sometimes it can feel very contrived if we're just learning a bunch of information we wish we could have discerned for ourselves over the course of the series, especially with as much random foreshadowing as GC does. All that being, as convoluted as it may be, I think it's fair to say that it at least makes sense, per se. Obviously not from a realistic point of view, this is sci-fi fantasy at work, it doesn't need logic to explain away its story elements. We are given enough pieces of the story to properly understand what happened, and how it all came together. Sure, some of it is tough to swallow and waaaaay out there but...I believe to say the story doesn't make sense at all is false. It wouldn't make sense if Shu gave Inori a lapdance the moment he met her. It wouldn't make sense if Gai decided to quit his totalitarian ways coming up to the finale, and take a skii trip to Alaska. None of that would make sense. What happened, made sense in the universe which it was described to happen (the show). Everything has an answer, and the scarce question that doesn't can be validly retaliated with "Well, just because". It's an anime. So many things happen "just because".

Here's the mention that has both incredible truth to it, and is probably the strongest point. Character development.

This word sort of gets on my nerves to hear from everyone on the friggin' internet after a period of time, because let's face it, everyone interprets and assesses people differently. This goes for characters in an anime. It's perfectly possible that one can think Shu remains unlike-able throughout the entire series, but that doesn't make another who finds joy in cheering for Shu, an idiot, nor wrong. You won't like everyone you meet, and I think anime characters are not exempt from this fact of life. I think more often than not when someone refers to "character development", what they mean to say is "the way I interpreted the character". All this being said...I will talk about what I feel is Guilty Crown's true flaw.

It bites off more than it can completely chew by the end of the series. It dips its foot in to so many different ideas, side-stories, and character intrigue away from Shu, and never gives itself time to flesh them out. This goes Inori especially. The implied Tsugimi x Daryl is probably the biggest culprit to mention here. Shu & Haruka is almost non-existent despite Haruka's incredible role in the main events that transpire and her relation to the main character. Funeral Parlor x Arise's Grandpa is played with but we're given little until they (grandpa included) start dying near the end. Arise starts as a character with huge potential but ends up flopping personalities like a pancake and so at the end you're left simply confused as to who she really is. Yahiro is the proverbial "Roussiou", and that's about it. Souta...probably wasn't worth the money it took to animate him. Daryl never makes it past psycho until he becomes a student for a day, and he's all the sudden a typical fartsy rom-com type character temporarily.

Things I think were given decent light aside from Shu...

Hare.
Segaii.
Voids. How they work and what it means (the dangers) to wield that power
Gai x Mana

So essentially...Guilty Crown takes the huge undertaking of making you invest in a smorgasbord of character intricacies and relationships, and to its dismay ends up only delivering in one. Shu x Inori (though I'd argue Shu x Hare got some good light). It's 100% understandable that this incites rage from many viewers, because this is something that is akin to a writers sin, not "completing" a character you introduce and create to be like-able or interesting at first pass. In the end the only thing that matters is Shu.

My interpretation? I find it actually impressive and admirable that Guilty Crown tried to do what it did with so many characters. The main thing you'll notice in my summary of the entire plot is that many prevelant and important characters aren't even mentioned. Did I say Ayase's name once? Tsugimi? Arise? Nope. Yet folks have valiantly and in the most vulgar ways expressed their distraught over the lack of their character development even as simply supporting characters. Their existence was simply arbitrary for the series overall, they were simply there to be a means for Shu to move forward with his own development, and yet everyone wants more of them. This to me, tells me that all of these characters are actually great characters. You want to know more. You want to see more of what Ayase thinks of Shu. You *want* to explore the odd chemistry Daryl feels for Tsugimi. This means as characters that they drew you in and had you demanding and wanting more from them. That's precisely what defines an intriguing character. I won't really touch on Shu's development because to say he had none is to simply admit you didn't watch the show (or at the least closed your eyes and ears the whole way through).


"Shu had no character development? WHAT?"

Guilty Crown had a huge budget and a fair bit of hype, and this created that evil little lemming we all know as expectation. Unfortunately expectation comes with a huge responsibility that falls on the weight of the creators to meet every single last one or they will be considered a flop. Guilty Crown is a massive spectacle, almost post modern in its attempt to be entertaining (the back to back Shu & Ayase give after defeating the endlave). The soundtrack is spectacular, and the animation is utterly some of the best we've ever seen in anime. This leaves folks to toil away and pick apart the story in every way that they can in an effort to bring it down if they didn't enjoy it personally. Is Guilty Crown perfect? Of course not, nothing is. Is Guilty Crown terrible? Are you crazy?

It doesn't take a high grade kind of taste in entertainment to simply sit back and enjoy the ride Guilty Crown gives you. Though you're forced to accept a few story details that you might find hard to swallow, and you may not ever get to hear your favorite side character say whatever it is you were hoping they might say, from start to finish it's a wild ride. That's why you finished watching it. If you didn't...well then you have no opinion anyway, right? As entertainment, I propose that Guilty Crown fantastically succeeded in its effort to be a wam-bam fantastical adventure full of explosions and emotion. Sure, to many it is not a finely tuned wine, and there's always going to someone who simply just does not enjoy a show because they just don't. Don't try to bring down Guilty Crown though. They took on a massive challenge, or for what it's worth they did a pretty damn good job providing the best entertainment that they could muster with the pressure that every viewer was putting on them.


"Some of the best artwork in modern anime..."

In Conclusion...

All in all, the flaws of Guilty Crown (which I've named many, if you didn't read this and you were searching for the TLDR) are not even near close enough to devoid it of its entertainment value. Which is the entire point, in my opinion. Guilty Crown isn't meant to change the way you view life, nor is it meant to make you cry (but...you know...it's okay if...*ahem*...did...*looks away). There's no point dissecting the plot and story short-comings to the point of ad-nauseam, because if you had to do that, you probably don't realize that you actually did enjoy the series to care enough to try. The plot, in the end ties itself up. The action is top notch. The main character goes through some good times, and some unbelievably bad times, supported by a cast of characters you all want to know more about.

Nothing about this anime makes it a "failure". Anyways...to answer your question, yes, I feel better...and thanks for reading/discussing.
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Posted 4/28/13
I think that anime... was to promote a band called supercell..
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Posted 4/28/13

DeckardXLeah wrote:

I think that anime... was to promote a band called supercell..


Supercell needs no promotion. Supercell is awesome.
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Posted 4/28/13
I guess I'll be the first to jump on the easy answer, everyone has their own tastes. Look at SAO for example. You tend to either have people who love it, or hate it (for the most part). Personally I watched about the first 6 episodes of GC when it was airing and rather enjoyed it (went on a trip and when I got back it fell off my radar unfortunately).
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Posted 4/28/13

zipzo wrote:


DeckardXLeah wrote:

I think that anime... was to promote a band called supercell..


Supercell needs no promotion. Supercell is awesome.



No, I think at the time they had a new/part time musician joining their band or something and no they are not awesome. They SUCK ass they are a rip off of older bands.
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Posted 4/28/13
Guilty Crown? Hmm I know the name, but I forget what is it about again.
In other words if I can not even remember it, then it must not been something very good or bad just mmhee. Look worm same old same old.
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Posted 4/28/13

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

Guilty Crown? Hmm I know the name, but I forget what is it about again.
In other words if I can not even remember it, then it must not been something very good or bad just mmhee. Look worm same old same old.


You might give it a look-see. If you know of no other way it's on Hulu. It starts off with a pretty big bang right at episode 1 so it's not difficult to get in to like other great anime with slow start-ups.

Just because you simply haven't heard of it or haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't or wasn't great. There is plenty of amazing anime in my catalog of "watched" that was great before I caught wind of it. Me watching it didn't change what it was.
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Posted 4/28/13

zipzo wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

Guilty Crown? Hmm I know the name, but I forget what is it about again.
In other words if I can not even remember it, then it must not been something very good or bad just mmhee. Look worm same old same old.


You might give it a look-see. If you know of no other way it's on Hulu. It starts off with a pretty big bang right at episode 1 so it's not difficult to get in to like other great anime with slow start-ups.

Just because you simply haven't heard of it or haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't or wasn't great. There is plenty of amazing anime in my catalog of "watched" that was great before I caught wind of it. Me watching it didn't change what it was.


If I know its name then most likely I have seen more than 8 or so episodes of it. Its just that I watch any and every anime that comes out, so I am always busy keeping up with what's new. in 25yead of watching anime I have seen over 4000 series.

I just can not recall what I watched wen it came to the anime Guilt Crown that makes me think it must have been neither good or bad just plain.

I don't even care what genera it is. I love romance, I love slice of life, and love icchi, I can even watch boy love , girl love, or hentai anime.

I can even count some of the greatest stories coming from the Hentai anime. (most people here most likely not know that there are some really good hentai's out there with top notch stories.) Sorry I start to ramble wen talking about anime.
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Posted 4/28/13 , edited 4/29/13

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


zipzo wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

Guilty Crown? Hmm I know the name, but I forget what is it about again.
In other words if I can not even remember it, then it must not been something very good or bad just mmhee. Look worm same old same old.


You might give it a look-see. If you know of no other way it's on Hulu. It starts off with a pretty big bang right at episode 1 so it's not difficult to get in to like other great anime with slow start-ups.

Just because you simply haven't heard of it or haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't or wasn't great. There is plenty of amazing anime in my catalog of "watched" that was great before I caught wind of it. Me watching it didn't change what it was.


If I know its name then most likely I have seen more than 8 or so episodes of it. Its just that I watch any and every anime that comes out, so I am always busy keeping up with what's new. in 25yead of watching anime I have seen over 4000 series.

I just can not recall what I watched wen it came to the anime Guilt Crown that makes me think it must have been neither good or bad just plain.

I don't even care what genera it is. I love romance, I love slice of life, and love icchi, I can even watch boy love , girl love, or hentai anime.

I can even count some of the greatest stories coming from the Hentai anime. (most people here most likely not know that there are some really good hentai's out there with top notch stories.) Sorry I start to ramble wen talking about anime.


Well then take this as an opportunity to expand your horizons. Just watch it. Shouldn't be a big undertaking for an apparent anime fiend such as yourself. I'm sure not all 4000 series you've seen were better than Guilty Crown.
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Posted 4/28/13

MillerTime45 wrote:

I guess I'll be the first to jump on the easy answer, everyone has their own tastes. Look at SAO for example. You tend to either have people who love it, or hate it (for the most part). Personally I watched about the first 6 episodes of GC when it was airing and rather enjoyed it (went on a trip and when I got back it fell off my radar unfortunately).


I agree, ppl have their own opinion when it comes to matters such as this, it depends on their own specific preferences of whether they'd liked the show or not.. It's better to just let people have their own opinions instead of making it into a huge argument of who's right or not.
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Posted 4/29/13 , edited 4/29/13

irtiza9169 wrote:


MillerTime45 wrote:

I guess I'll be the first to jump on the easy answer, everyone has their own tastes. Look at SAO for example. You tend to either have people who love it, or hate it (for the most part). Personally I watched about the first 6 episodes of GC when it was airing and rather enjoyed it (went on a trip and when I got back it fell off my radar unfortunately).


I agree, ppl have their own opinion when it comes to matters such as this, it depends on their own specific preferences of whether they'd liked the show or not.. It's better to just let people have their own opinions instead of making it into a huge argument of who's right or not.


I completely agree.

My jitters come from those who actually perceive this series to be a flop. A horrible, embarrassing failure. Sure, it may not have been what you wanted it to be (I'd like to honestly know what anime is in these cases, because I might even disagree with their honorable mentions in humorous irony).

To dislike it simply because it wasn't for you is wonderful. Freedom of interpretation at work. To actually suggest this series is bad, terrible, and failed is...well...it's wrong. It's contrarian. It's...dare I say...hipster. I believe the same forces are currently at work with what Sword Art Online has to deal with.
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Posted 4/29/13
Guilty Crown? That anime was awesome, but I can't really remember what it was about except for the main heroine resembling art on some of supercell's albums.

I just know that after supercell found their new vocalists (chelly and Koeda)... words cannot describe the evolution the world has begun.
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Posted 4/29/13
The episode that was released with the blu ray was awesome. Its about the first guy with the kings hand, but he can only use it on one person, every other gets the apocalypse virus. Anyways that episode was awesome, wish they would have continued the story on that. He was named Scrooge if i remember right.
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Posted 4/29/13 , edited 4/29/13
When you see the words "I" on the forum title here, that's usually a signal for a "Personal Thread" and doesn't offer much for discussion. But WOW! This is really verbose. It even beats some of my long winded comments by about four paragraphs. "LAWL"

I'll probably check out because I read all that. Thanks dude.
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Posted 4/29/13
Want to know why inori had to die? the writers actually made the plot made sense. If Inori didn't die and that Shoe and Inori's relationship developed further, they might have children with mongolian idiocy(down sydrome)
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