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Post Reply I give up, I *don't* get the Guilty Crown hate...*spoilers*
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23 / M / Middle of Nowhere...
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Posted 4/29/13
Honestly, does anyone understand this?
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21 / F / Under your skin.
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Posted 4/29/13


Okay I'm not reading any of that.
But I agree (lol), Guilty Crown was at least decent and I bet the haters are either
Code Geass fans who don't like the idea of a "copy" of CG, or
SAO / garbage anime fans whose taste are just plain awful.




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Posted 4/29/13
i can't really remember why i rage quit the series at 3rd episode, but i was one of the people who felt betrayed from the hype.

now that i think about it, idk what i was expecting for. i decided to try it because of the beautiful art and music.
i thought i was ready for whatever story they're gonna give us thanks to sci-fi genre, that has endless possibilities.
but.
i really wanna say the taboo word but can't. the first 3 episodes didnt cut it for me. wasn't interesting enough maybe?

idk, after reading this i feel like trying to watch it again.
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Posted 4/29/13
I enjoyed it a lot too but not because it was well written or anything. But because it was so utterly stupid that I couldn't help but enjoy it. Plus the animation and soundtrack were godly to go along with it. It was just one big, stupid, incredibly expensive thrill ride.

Although to be honest, I thought Guilty Crown was genuinely much better than Evangelion 3.33
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Posted 4/29/13 , edited 4/29/13
I don't have a very negative view of this series, but I'll start with what I didn't like and move on from there.

To start, marathoning a series can lead to a much different outlook than watching it from week to week (think of SAO after the hospital scene). Especially when there was a three week holiday gap between episodes 11 and 12, and where 12 practically felt like an episode from another show spliced into the series immediately after a three week haitus.

Daath came completely out of nowhere, and had the unfortunate effect of reminding me of Kazuhiro Mitogawa from Ga-Rei Zero (who was a crazy powerful mastermind antagonist who you knew nothing about because he had no character arc unless you read the manga - he was just an evil deus ex machina if that's an appropriate use for the term).


And like Ga-Rei Zero, Guilty Crown started making repeated allusions to an evil organization and some master plan involving Daath, who was a Gravekeeper or something, and a related subplot which basically went absolutely nowhere for weeks. Honestly I don't even remember if they even concluded Daath's character arc it felt so disjointed.

A second problem was that, while it was easy to sympathize with practically all the characters, empathy was freaking tough. All the main characters were either depressed or psychologically damaged, with made them stand-offish to the audience and extremely difficult to relate to. So while you cared about them, you felt forcibly distanced from the story.

This also distanced the audience from the character's internal developments, further complicated by how choppily those developments were presented over time as the story progressed (the whole thing took over 5 months including a three week lull in the middle, remember). This meant that sometimes characters would just suddenly behave differently.

There was an internal process which lead to that change, but the audience wasn't let in on it until after it happened.

Like when Inori transformed into battle-mode or whatever, and the whole audience just went ?


It was obvious she was working herself up to do something in that episode, but that was just weird. It also felt like they just randomly decided to give her superpowers completely outside the range of the plot. Whoever wrote the story was too hung up on reveals, so he turned things into reveals that should've been telegraphed beforehand.

Things like this turned people off to the series since it was like if someone you thought was a friend walked up to you and smacked you in the face with a dead fish a couple times and then walked away. Instead of increasing engagement or curiosity, you just knew you had to wait a week (or months) to understand WHY they smacked you with a fish.

And whether the type of fish was important.
And what you were doing right before they smacked you with the fish.
And what time of day it was.
And whether you'd maybe forgotten to shower that morning.
And if being smacked with random objects while in their company was going to become a recurring thing.
(Hint: It would. And some people became understandably offended at such treatment).

Guilty Crown took the interest of its audience for granted in ways they shouldn't have. Particularly when it comes to explaining plot developments. If something goes unexplained, its implied that the audience shouldn't care about it being explained. Which implies that the audience shouldn't care about the plot, and by association your show.

That said, I did enjoy the series, even though half the time it felt like riding a mechanical bull at a county fair. I eventually stopped trying to speculate and just held on, assuming that whatever just happened would eventually be explained (or not). Like Gai's resurrection. Which at that point was like an elephant added to the top of a Mount Everest.

There. Complaining over.

Shu's character arc was one of the things I most respected about the series. I was annoyed originally, since I figured it was just another irritating mecha with an Ikari Shinji doppelganger. But they actually developed him as a character, and put him through several pretty radical character arcs that changed who he was as a person. That was good to see.

And while relating to the characters could be difficult, when you could do it it became that much more valuable.

Like in episode 13, when they're cut off at the highschool but preparing for the cultural festival. And you got to see inside Ayase's grief about Gai's death and her own feelings of helplessness. And then they're attacked, and you just feel how wretched she feels. And then Shu gives her her Void, and you just wanted to stand up at your desk and cheer for her.

That was probably my single favorite episode in the entire series after all of it was over. It felt so damn empowering.

I'm glad the show happened, and that it got Redjuice Graphics some long overdue recognition. The only real fault was how story developments were presented and explained, but that was actually a pretty serious fault. And the stealthed character arcs as well. Inori's death should've packed a much bigger punch than it did.

tl;dr,

Guilty Crown was good, but it could've been much, much better.

I think it could've been the next Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann if the plot and character arcs had been handled better.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I thought the music was truly fantastic. Anime OSTs are just getting better and better.
Posted 4/29/13
Watched it for the art.

A lot of the hate isn't really well founded, but it was definitely lacking something.
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Posted 4/29/13

Insomnist wrote:

Guilty Crown was good, but it could've been much, much better.

I think it could've been the next Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann if the plot and character arcs had been handled better.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I thought the music was truly fantastic. Anime OSTs are just getting better and better.


You hit upon pretty much everything that really bugged me about the show. The bit about the fish was truly inspired. :)

GC is a great example of wasted potential, which is the most frustrating thing about it.
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Posted 4/29/13

DeckardXLeah wrote:

I think that anime... was to promote a band called supercell..


It wasn't supercell, it was Egoist :p.
Supercell is already well known !

Anyway I really loved this anime and I would say that I never noticed that this show was getting so much hate. o_o

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Posted 4/29/13 , edited 4/29/13

manrui wrote:


DeckardXLeah wrote:

I think that anime... was to promote a band called supercell..


It wasn't supercell, it was Egoist :p.
Supercell is already well known !

Anyway I really loved this anime and I would say that I never noticed that this show was getting so much hate. o_o



Supercell was pretty well known in the Vocaloid community, but I'm not sure how well they were known outside of it. but yes, it was Egoist that did the music for GC, even though technically Egoist IS Supercell. Supercell had music in other anime before GC, as well, such as the ending of Bakemonogatari.

I didn't read the main post or most of the other posts, but I have to say that I don't get the hate for GC either. sure, it wasn't super amazing and did feel a bit like a Code Geass ripoff, but it was still a decent show on it's own.
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Posted 4/29/13

aidenraine wrote:


manrui wrote:


DeckardXLeah wrote:

I think that anime... was to promote a band called supercell..


It wasn't supercell, it was Egoist :p.
Supercell is already well known !

Anyway I really loved this anime and I would say that I never noticed that this show was getting so much hate. o_o



Supercell was pretty well known in the Vocaloid community, but I'm not sure how well they were known outside of it. but yes, it was Egoist that did the music for GC, even though technically Egoist IS Supercell. Supercell had music in other anime before GC, as well, such as the ending of Bakemonogatari.


Ha, thanks, I learned something today :). I only heard Egoist songs in GC & Psycho pass and I got some albums from the band (because the voice of the singer is really gorgeous <3).
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Posted 4/29/13
Dear god, that was the longest post I've seen on these forums. lol
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19 / M / location not avai...
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Posted 4/29/13
season 2 perhaps?
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Posted 4/29/13 , edited 4/29/13

Insomnist wrote:

I don't have a very negative view of this series, but I'll start with what I didn't like and move on from there.

To start, marathoning a series can lead to a much different outlook than watching it from week to week (think of SAO after the hospital scene). Especially when there was a three week holiday gap between episodes 11 and 12, and where 12 practically felt like an episode from another show spliced into the series immediately after a three week haitus.

Daath came completely out of nowhere, and had the unfortunate effect of reminding me of Kazuhiro Mitogawa from Ga-Rei Zero (who was a crazy powerful mastermind antagonist who you knew nothing about because he had no character arc unless you read the manga - he was just an evil deus ex machina if that's an appropriate use for the term).


And like Ga-Rei Zero, Guilty Crown started making repeated allusions to an evil organization and some master plan involving Daath, who was a Gravekeeper or something, and a related subplot which basically went absolutely nowhere for weeks. Honestly I don't even remember if they even concluded Daath's character arc it felt so disjointed.

Wonderful post. Exactly what I was looking for. Daath was indeed a bit random. He played a major role in Shu's direction half way through the series (capturing Inori), and there were so many qualities about him that were put on a need-to-know basis as soon as he appeared. When did he get the kings power if there were only 3 genomes? How long have they been alive? Is Daath that chick in Episode 00 (both have blonde hair, the same eye color and Daath sounds like a girl)? This and many other similar items were left practically untouched by the hand of explanation along with Gai's resurrection. It is times like these where I invoke the "imagination" theory. Sometimes big things happen behind the scenes in any anime, or situation in real life, where you will never know the entire back story of. You can't possibly. There is a world of things to every single characters past that we are not privy to in the series, not just Daath, but it's easy to feel cheated when it comes to Daath simply because they are a villain. In that sense...the only important thing is that they need to be stopped. No matter how they reached their collective mindset, the bad guys must be stopped. I'm not saying that a criminal needs no motive, simply that in a show trying to condense 10-15 years of history, government mish mash, secret organization silliness in to tiny bits that are second in importance to Shu's journey to rise up above all of those things...it's understandable you will not get to have your cake and eat it too. This is why Gai's ressurection, although surprising, didn't really bother me too much, nor Daath's history. I was focused on Shu, just as the show probably intended. I didn't feel the need to think that worrying about ancient bits of history were important to Shu's mission to save the world. Anime is profoundly guilty of over-explaining these things sometimes, so occasionally I actually appreciate a little bit of tight-lip around all the issues surrounding a cataclysm. Sometimes, you just don't or can't know.


A second problem was that, while it was easy to sympathize with practically all the characters, empathy was freaking tough. All the main characters were either depressed or psychologically damaged, with made them stand-offish to the audience and extremely difficult to relate to. So while you cared about them, you felt forcibly distanced from the story.

This also distanced the audience from the character's internal developments, further complicated by how choppily those developments were presented over time as the story progressed (the whole thing took over 5 months including a three week lull in the middle, remember). This meant that sometimes characters would just suddenly behave differently.

There was an internal process which lead to that change, but the audience wasn't let in on it until after it happened.

Like when Inori transformed into battle-mode or whatever, and the whole audience just went ?


It was obvious she was working herself up to do something in that episode, but that was just weird. It also felt like they just randomly decided to give her superpowers completely outside the range of the plot. Whoever wrote the story was too hung up on reveals, so he turned things into reveals that should've been telegraphed beforehand.

Things like this turned people off to the series since it was like if someone you thought was a friend walked up to you and smacked you in the face with a dead fish a couple times and then walked away. Instead of increasing engagement or curiosity, you just knew you had to wait a week (or months) to understand WHY they smacked you with a fish.

And whether the type of fish was important.
And what you were doing right before they smacked you with the fish.
And what time of day it was.
And whether you'd maybe forgotten to shower that morning.
And if being smacked with random objects while in their company was going to become a recurring thing.
(Hint: It would. And some people became understandably offended at such treatment).

Okay well this is obviously a sentiment I agree with as I explained in the OP. Characters are difficult and more complex than the show cares to give attention to. I feel some of it subtley wears down and is explained but some is left completely in the air (Daryl). The Inori transformation thing was "what the crap", but as said before...at this point in the series if you aren't simply trying to enjoy the spectacle of Guilty Crown as opposed picking it apart...you might re-assess what the show is possibly aiming for. You have no choice but to accept that Inori channeled whatever Mana infected stuff that was flowing through her in to the transformation we ended up seeing. It was a super action oriented turn of events with no diabolic setup, but as stated before, I'm not of the mind that I must completely and fundamentally understand everything that happens in a show. Again, anime can be criminally bad at over-explaining things (something I call the "Brock-effect"). You know how when Squirtle water guns a Charmander and Charmander appears to take a pretty bad hit...we all know why...but nonetheless we have to hear it from Brock. Every time. It's assumed that he does this to keep the audience on point, so they aren't left not understanding something. This is a lesser form of what people expect from the more complex animes. I hate being spoon-fed the anatomy of a story or the history of an event...some find it necessary to the plot. I simply use my imagination or make my own assertions. Do you know why people still read books? It lets you use your imagination where most TV entertainment doesn't. It is for concepts like this that I appreciate the opportunity to use it on a TV show.


Guilty Crown took the interest of its audience for granted in ways they shouldn't have. Particularly when it comes to explaining plot developments. If something goes unexplained, its implied that the audience shouldn't care about it being explained. Which implies that the audience shouldn't care about the plot, and by association your show.

That said, I did enjoy the series, even though half the time it felt like riding a mechanical bull at a county fair. I eventually stopped trying to speculate and just held on, assuming that whatever just happened would eventually be explained (or not). Like Gai's resurrection. Which at that point was like an elephant added to the top of a Mount Everest.

There. Complaining over.

Shu's character arc was one of the things I most respected about the series. I was annoyed originally, since I figured it was just another irritating mecha with an Ikari Shinji doppelganger. But they actually developed him as a character, and put him through several pretty radical character arcs that changed who he was as a person. That was good to see.

And while relating to the characters could be difficult, when you could do it it became that much more valuable.

Like in episode 13, when they're cut off at the highschool but preparing for the cultural festival. And you got to see inside Ayase's grief about Gai's death and her own feelings of helplessness. And then they're attacked, and you just feel how wretched she feels. And then Shu gives her her Void, and you just wanted to stand up at your desk and cheer for her.

That was probably my single favorite episode in the entire series after all of it was over. It felt so damn empowering.

I'm glad the show happened, and that it got Redjuice Graphics some long overdue recognition. The only real fault was how story developments were presented and explained, but that was actually a pretty serious fault. And the stealthed character arcs as well. Inori's death should've packed a much bigger punch than it did.

tl;dr,

Guilty Crown was good, but it could've been much, much better.

I think it could've been the next Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann if the plot and character arcs had been handled better.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I thought the music was truly fantastic. Anime OSTs are just getting better and better.


I'm of the mind to believe that Guilty Crown wasn't prepared for the kind of harsh judgment it would received. Something leads me to believe that they couldn't comprehend the scrutinization they would endure. What if Guilty Crown had been made by a small, unknown, up-&-coming studio with absolutely no background in animation or any form of entertainment? Would it be considered the best anime of all time simply because you consider the creators lack of resume? Is this really an important factor in simply enjoying what Guilty Crown has to offer? It's utterly unfair to let high expectations drive your criticism. I don't see folks rag-taggedly pulling apart the plot to Bleach (which is what, almost 400 episodes and has never made much sense), or questioning the chain of events that come to pass in other fantasy animes. These animes are simply judged by their entertainment value, their voice acting (and often not even), and their ability to keep you watching.

It's actually sort of hilarious to me that all the "fine wine" critics bust out of the fray just for Guilty Crown. Did Guilty Crown demand a different kind of judgment? One of higher demand and much higher expectation? Did the creators come out and say "We are aiming to make the best anime in all of history, so don't hold back!"? For not only the sound track and the art direction to be excellent, but the story to be perfectly concise with zero holes, and for the writers to not leave a loose end un-tied? What exactly did people expect from Guilty Crown?! It sounds like a lot of people thought it was going to be the greatest anime of all time in the history and future of anime.

Sure if you expected that...it fell short on numerous levels. As did many (all) other "great" animes of today. Does anybody even know what the "perfect" anime is? Don't be unfair to Guilty Crown is all I wish most people would understand. To me, this is actually a compliment to the series that it garnered such a high grade of criticism. It means it made people care that much to go that much deeper in to its analysis.
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Posted 4/29/13
I loved the anime really, especially when Hare dies
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Posted 4/29/13
I agree that watching an anime week by week (as it airs) and just watching to marathon it does give off different vibes to it. The biggest thing I had a problem with when watching GC was probably the character motivation, more so during the 2nd half. I semi-understand why Shu became a "bad king" because of Hare dieing. What I never understand was why Gai became the uber bad guy at the end when he died to practically to prevent what he did when he came back to life. His reasoning was the same, just his actions contradicted each other completely. Other than that, I thought GC had over the top art and music with a decent story that got overwhelmed a bit..., but not too much.
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