Rosetta stone has me confused
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24 / M / virginia
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Posted 4/30/13
so i have started learning japanese via roetta stone + google search for things im confused on lol.

and i just came across something that had me very confused that i couldnt find an answer to via internet, and it got my thinking that maybe rosetta stone made a mistake.

so to my understanding, kare is used for men, kanojo for woman, the karera (they - men), kanojowa (they -women)

and it just asked me to pronounce karera showing a group of women.. im not sure if rosetta stone mistakenly showed a group of women or if it is technically not incorrect to use karera when referring to a group of women but ya... so can anyone help me out here im confused.

basically did rosetta stone make a mistake with their image grouping or is it technically ok to use karera when referring to a group of women.
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27 / M / ロンドン、カナダ
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Posted 4/30/13 , edited 4/30/13
かれら (karera) is mostly used for men, but it is also sometimes used for women. For example, the sentence:

彼らの大部分は女性だった [Karera no daibubun wa jyosei datta.] (The majority of them were women) is perfectly acceptable, and is an example of karera being used to refer to a group of women.
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29 / F / Kumamoto, Japan
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Posted 4/30/13
Hm.

"Karera" is usually used for a group of men but there are times I have heard it used in terms of just a group of people, regardless of gender.

But to be honest, I have never heard of "kanojowa". I think you mean "kanojora". I would say try it again and instead of saying "Karera" say "KanojoRA" and see what happens.
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M / North Carolina, USA
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Posted 5/4/13
In textbook Japanese, use karera for a mixed sex group.
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Posted 5/15/13 , edited 5/15/13

Kerensa wrote:

Hm.

"Karera" is usually used for a group of men but there are times I have heard it used in terms of just a group of people, regardless of gender.

But to be honest, I have never heard of "kanojowa". I think you mean "kanojora". I would say try it again and instead of saying "Karera" say "KanojoRA" and see what happens.


I think he means "kanojo wa", wa is the particle or topic marker. I use Rosetta Stone too, I am currently on disc 1 level 2, about 3 units from the milestone

I found it quite confusing too, I appreciate the sentiment of learning how a child would learn but there are things that could do with full explanations. For example - tabete, tabemasu, nonde, nomimasu, yonde, yomimasu, mite imasu, mimasu. I understand the differences better now, mainly because of Japanese For Busy People and the Michel Thomas audio ... and lots of reading
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27 / M / ロンドン、カナダ
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Posted 5/16/13
^ Yeah, all of those examples you listed above are either verbs in their て (te) form, or in its standard polite ます (masu) form.

I've never checked out Rosetta Stone so I'm not sure how they teach it, but Japanese verbs conjugate incredibly easily, with only a few irregular verbs (する and くる being the most frequently encountered irregular verbs).

But apart from that, simple rules can always be applied. For example, any dictionary form group 1 verb that ends in -bu or -mu will have a te form that is nde.

読む (yomu) ---> 読んで (yonde)
呼ぶ (yobu) ---> 呼んで (yonde)
飲む (nomu) ---> 飲んで (nonde)

Etc, etc...

I'm glad you're reading Japanese for Busy People. That three book series, if studied and practiced thoroughly (and preferably with a tutor, if you can find one!) is far more useful than Rosetta Stone
Aryth 
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25 / M / Nashville
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Posted 5/16/13
The full kanji form of かれら (karera) is 彼等. 彼 obviously is the pronoun for "he" or "him", but 等 (ra) is a little more deceptive. We usually only see it in the kana form, so it's true meaning may not be easily grasped. Some who have studied kanji to some detail may recognize 等 as など, meaning 'etc', so, the whole thing probably means male (and others). I believe that 彼ら formed as a colloquialism, because there is little known (on the internet, anyway) about WHY this is preferred over the universal person pluralizer 達 (たち). 彼ら can, as far as I'm aware, be used for any group of "them", but is especially used for groups of all males. 彼達 (かれたち), as far as I know, is not commonly used (or used at all as far as I've seen and heard).
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Posted 5/19/13 , edited 5/19/13
Pretty much what everyone else said is true about the "karera" and the "kanojo wa," but one thing that I wanted to comment on is how Rosetta Stone could help people understand the grammar issues a little bit more. I do think it does a great job with immersion and forcing a user to hear correctly and grasp a new language.
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31 / M / So Cal
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Posted 6/3/13
I tried using Rosetta Stone to enhance my Chinese, but it kept mispronouncing words and would mark me wrong every time I pronounced it they way it's spoken in China. Beijing dialect of course, since it's the official one. I even tried pronouncing words with a Qingdao and Shangainese accent.

So in short; Rosetta Stone will help you learn the language, but it will need correcting when applying it in the real world. Don't worry though, people who you regularly speak with will generally help you correct it during casual conversation.
One Punch Mod
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Posted 12/3/13
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