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Post Reply Does CR stream at 24 or 30 FPS?
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27 / M / Boston, MA
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Posted 4/30/13
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I figured I would start a new topic anyway.

I just want to know whether CR generally streams in 24 or 30 FPS so I know whether to set the TV to 1080p60 or 1080p24 when connected to my laptop.

Thanks!
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Bjaker 
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Posted 4/30/13


90% is 24 and 10% is 30. Really depends on the show.
That said, the tech dudes said you shouldn't have to adjust anything.
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Posted 4/30/13

Bjaker wrote:



90% is 24 and 10% is 30. Really depends on the show.
That said, the tech dudes said you shouldn't have to adjust anything. :o


Thanks for the info.

I am just getting tons of stutter when I watch on my laptop screen or TV screen via laptop. For reference I am using a 13" MacBook Pro w/ retina. This issue happens on both OS X and Windows 7. I have also tried playing videos on three other laptops while at work. Same stuttering issues. Is the CR player this bad? Is the newest Flash update causing issues?

The stutter is there with the PS3 too but definitely not as severe. This stutter I speak of doesn't happen during every panning sequence, but it does happen too much. And it does not happen when I am playing downloaded MP4/MKV.

Needless to say, this is pretty frustrating. My connection at home is 50mbps down via FiOS so I doubt that is the problem..
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Bjaker 
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Posted 5/1/13


Hmm.... I know that there do seem to be new issues that pop up when a new version of Flash rolls out.

Can you do the following for me?


Follow these 2 links, run each test separately, press the 'Copy Direct Link' button and link us to the results.
http://www.speedtest.net/
http://www.pingtest.net/

Follow the instructions below to run some further network connection tests for us.
(Instructions for computers with Mac OSX Installed)
Open the Network Utility which can be found by going to the Macintosh HD, under Applications and Utilities. (You should also be able to find it via Spotlight)
In the Network Utility window, click on the Ping tab, type in "cp150757.edgefcs.net" without quotation marks and set it to send only 4 pings.
Then click the Ping button, copy the results and paste it in a reply to this message.
Also, click on the Traceroute tab and type in "cp150757.edgefcs.net" without quotation marks.
Then click the Trace button , copy the results and paste it in a reply to this message.
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Posted 5/1/13
I'll do the test when I get home. But I routinely get 4-5MBps (32-40Mbps down speeds on my laptop at home via Verizon FiOS. PS3 speed would be less since it only supports wireless G. HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it is a connection issue. At work i only get .8MBps. Same EXACT stutter issue. I am fairly confident that this is an issue with Flash and/or the CR player being janky. But I will run the tests anyway.
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27 / M / Boston, MA
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Posted 5/1/13 , edited 5/1/13

Bjaker wrote:



Hmm.... I know that there do seem to be new issues that pop up when a new version of Flash rolls out.

Can you do the following for me?


Follow these 2 links, run each test separately, press the 'Copy Direct Link' button and link us to the results.
http://www.speedtest.net/
http://www.pingtest.net/

Follow the instructions below to run some further network connection tests for us.
(Instructions for computers with Mac OSX Installed)
Open the Network Utility which can be found by going to the Macintosh HD, under Applications and Utilities. (You should also be able to find it via Spotlight)
In the Network Utility window, click on the Ping tab, type in "cp150757.edgefcs.net" without quotation marks and set it to send only 4 pings.
Then click the Ping button, copy the results and paste it in a reply to this message.
Also, click on the Traceroute tab and type in "cp150757.edgefcs.net" without quotation marks.
Then click the Trace button , copy the results and paste it in a reply to this message.

Welp, what do you think? :P

[


Ping:

Ping has started…

PING a156.vi5g5.akafms.net (184.27.45.85): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 184.27.45.85: icmp_seq=0 ttl=252 time=27.002 ms
64 bytes from 184.27.45.85: icmp_seq=1 ttl=252 time=23.748 ms
64 bytes from 184.27.45.85: icmp_seq=2 ttl=252 time=22.474 ms
64 bytes from 184.27.45.85: icmp_seq=3 ttl=252 time=23.970 ms

--- a156.vi5g5.akafms.net ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 22.474/24.299/27.002/1.662 ms

Traceroute:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute: Warning: cp150757.edgefcs.net has multiple addresses; using 184.27.45.107
traceroute to a156.vi5g5.akafms.net (184.27.45.107), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
1 wireless_broadband_router (192.168.1.1) 1.745 ms 1.471 ms 0.892 ms
2 l100.bstnma-vfttp-127.verizon-gni.net (108.7.229.1) 7.373 ms 14.345 ms 7.641 ms
3 g0-3-4-7.bstnma-lcr-21.verizon-gni.net (130.81.137.10) 12.573 ms 10.228 ms 9.554 ms
4 ae0-0.bos-bb-rtr1.verizon-gni.net (130.81.209.86) 7.197 ms 13.931 ms 8.689 ms
5 0.xe-8-2-0.xl1.iad8.alter.net (152.63.32.50) 22.218 ms 21.951 ms 23.207 ms
6 0.xe-8-0-1.gw12.iad8.alter.net (152.63.35.170) 21.881 ms 21.802 ms 26.890 ms
7 akamai-gw.customer.alter.net (152.179.50.198) 24.152 ms 26.625 ms 26.516 ms
8 a184-27-45-107.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (184.27.45.107) 27.710 ms 37.448 ms 29.313 ms
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Bjaker 
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Posted 5/1/13


Doesn't look like you should be having any issues at all. :3

Can you point me at some videos that give you issues so I can test them?
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Posted 5/1/13
I notice the issues in pretty much anything with panning shots. Devil Survivor 2 the Animation episode 2 was pretty notable last night. Lots of panning sequences right near the beginning of the episode. Noticed it in Attack on Titan episode 4. Teen Romance snafu episode 3. OreImo 2 ep4. Valvrave ep2 and 3. Etc.

I think it may be more of a flash and/or CR player issue than it is an issue on the encoding of any single episode.

The stuttering on the panning shots isn't consistent either. On both my laptop and PS3 I can replay the same parts over and over. Sometimes it'll play smoothly. Sometimes it'll stutter. And when it does stutter it is not necessarily in the same exact spots.
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Posted 5/1/13 , edited 5/1/13
I figured I should also note that playback is generally buttery smooth on my iPhone 5 and iPad 4th gen. So for whatever reason the iOS app is working great. Thank you for that. But when I am home I want to be able to watch on my TV via PS3, laptop, or even 360.

I forgot to throw the 360 into the mix because I rarely use it. Same stuttering issues on there.
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Posted 5/1/13 , edited 5/1/13

Erikdayo wrote:

I notice the issues in pretty much anything with panning shots. Devil Survivor 2 the Animation episode 2 was pretty notable last night. Lots of panning sequences right near the beginning of the episode. Noticed it in Attack on Titan episode 4. Teen Romance snafu episode 3. OreImo 2 ep4. Valvrave ep2 and 3. Etc.

I think it may be more of a flash and/or CR player issue than it is an issue on the encoding of any single episode.

The stuttering on the panning shots isn't consistent either. On both my laptop and PS3 I can replay the same parts over and over. Sometimes it'll play smoothly. Sometimes it'll stutter. And when it does stutter it is not necessarily in the same exact spots.


What brand and model is your TV? What you are describing sounds like symptoms caused by motion interpolation.

Here is a list of what each brand calls their version of motion interpolation. Find your brand and then look for the setting on your TV and turn it off.



Hitachi – Reel120[2]
Insignia – DCM Plus, for Digital Clear Motion 120 Hz
Kogan Technologies – MotionMax 100 Hz,[3] 200 Hz
LG – TruMotion 120 Hz, 240 Hz, 480 Hz
AOC – Motion Boost 120 Hz
Loewe - Digital Movie Mode (DMM)[4]
Mitsubishi – Smooth 120 Hz
Panasonic – Intelligent Frame Creation (IFC)
Philips – HD Digital Natural Motion[5]
Samsung – Auto Motion Plus 120 Hz,[6] 240 Hz, Clear Motion Rate 100 Hz, 200 Hz, 400 Hz, 500 Hz, 600 Hz, 800 Hz (PAL video system), Clear Motion Rate 120 Hz, 240 Hz, 480 Hz, 600 Hz, 720 Hz, 960 Hz (NTSC video system)
Sharp – Fine Motion Enhanced,[7] AquoMotion 240 Hz,[8] AquoMotion Pro
Sony – MotionFlow 100 Hz, 100 Hz PRO (XBR series, Australia), 120 Hz, 200 Hz, 240 Hz, 400 Hz, 480 Hz, 800 Hz, 960 Hz.[9][10]
Toshiba – ClearScan 120 Hz, 240 Hz
Vizio – SmoothMotion [11]
Sceptre – MEMC (Motion Estimation/Motion Compensation)


PS - Setting your TV to 1080p24 when you are using your computer is not going to do anything. Even if you play a 24 fps video on your computer, your computer is still outputting at whatever refresh rate you have the video card set to. If your TV has an "auto" selection for this, set it to that as it will choose the the correct pull-down method based on the signal input. If it receives a 24 fps signal (as in a blu-ray movie from a blu-ray drive) the TV will automatically switch to 1080p24 mode to get rid of judder. The same applies to the PS3 Crunchyroll app. Video apps on the PS3 will display at whatever the refresh rate you have the TV set to. The only time the PS3 will output a 1080p24 signal is when playing a 24 fps blu-ray, and you have the 24 fps BD setting enabled in your PS3 video settings.
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Posted 5/2/13
I wish it were that simple. I always have all those effects turned OFF. Not a fan of it. Plus it adds input lag on games and looks generally wonky. But yea. I have an LG LCD w/ 120hz output. Not a fan of the soap opera effect. It bothers me when it is turned 'on' on friends TVs.

I am able to set my TV to 24hz output from my computer display settings. It most definitely helps with smoothness on HD video downloads.
For Crunchyroll it does not seem to help. Once again I will express my uneducated opinion that it is Flash and/or the CR player itself.

Via PS3 my TV always outputs at 60hz except for BD, as you mentioned. Even when I play 24fps MP4 files it stays at 60hz. And it still is quite smooth for said MP4 videos. But when I watch CR on it the panning can stutter quite often. Just like with my retina MacBook Pro. Just like the 4 laptops I tried the CR player on at work. All had the same symptoms as previously mentioned.
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Posted 5/2/13

Erikdayo wrote:

Via PS3 my TV always outputs at 60hz except for BD, as you mentioned. Even when I play 24fps MP4 files it stays at 60hz. And it still is quite smooth for said MP4 videos. But when I watch CR on it the panning can stutter quite often. Just like with my retina MacBook Pro. Just like the 4 laptops I tried the CR player on at work. All had the same symptoms as previously mentioned.


Ever tried it on somebody else's connection that isn't Verizon FIOS? A friend's or the public library can be good test spots.
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Posted 5/2/13
Yep. The connection at work is not FiOS. We have Verizon DSL. I have also tried it at two different friends places. Same exact issues. They both have Comcast, I believe.

Pretty sure it's not a connection issue. But if you want me to run more connection tests, though Speedtest said my connection is faster than 95% of the US, I will.

Honestly, I might really just want a refund. I paid for a year, and CR's player just doesn't seem up to the task for computers and PS3 + 360. But oddly works great on my iPhone and iPad. Maybe the iOS app is just better programmed.
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Posted 5/2/13 , edited 5/2/13

Erikdayo wrote:

I wish it were that simple. I always have all those effects turned OFF. Not a fan of it. Plus it adds input lag on games and looks generally wonky. But yea. I have an LG LCD w/ 120hz output. Not a fan of the soap opera effect. It bothers me when it is turned 'on' on friends TVs.

I am able to set my TV to 24hz output from my computer display settings. It most definitely helps with smoothness on HD video downloads.
For Crunchyroll it does not seem to help. Once again I will express my uneducated opinion that it is Flash and/or the CR player itself.

Via PS3 my TV always outputs at 60hz except for BD, as you mentioned. Even when I play 24fps MP4 files it stays at 60hz. And it still is quite smooth for said MP4 videos. But when I watch CR on it the panning can stutter quite often. Just like with my retina MacBook Pro. Just like the 4 laptops I tried the CR player on at work. All had the same symptoms as previously mentioned.



Under Windows, what is the CPU utilization when playing back the video? What is it under OS X?

I know that Flash has had horrible support on OS X, but that doesn't explain the same symptoms on Windows.

Have you checked to see if there are any driver updates for your video card? The hardware acceleration for flash may not be working properly.

Is there any difference when switching to full screen mode? Can you try toggling subtitle smoothing? (Right click on the video as it is playing)

Are you able to record a small clip with a camera and upload it to youtube? That way we can see exactly what the stutter looks like.

The part about the PS3 also experiencing the issue is odd as well. Can you make a recording of the PS3 as well?

For reference, I have an old Asus gaming laptop that will be 5 years old at the end of this year. It just has a 2.1ghz Core 2 Duo and an Nvidia 9800M GS and it has no problems playing back 720p and 1080p videos on Crunchyroll. My PS3 has no issues either.

PS - The iOS app uses different video files that are encoded differently and are played using a different video player. The PS3 also uses different videos than what is streamed on the website, which is why it is weird that it is experiencing the same problem. Also, just an interesting tid-bit, the subtitles in the iOS videos and the PS3 videos are actually hard encoded into the video unlike the website which uses soft subtitles.

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Posted 5/2/13 , edited 5/2/13
Everything is on the latest updates. I have uninstalled flash and reinstalled multiple times. It is not the hardware in my laptop. I wish it were.

I have checked CPU use before in OS X and it was about 15 - 25% for 1080p, I believe. That's an Ivy Bridge dual core i5, HD4000, 8GB RAM, and 2560 x 1600 'retina' screen . Same issues show up on the Mac I use at work. That is Sandy Bridge quad core i7, HD3000 + 6750m, 16GB RAM, and 1440x900 display.

Also tried it on two Windows machines with the same issues. Both with Win7 and the latest updates. Both have Sandy Bridge quad core i7, dedicated graphics + HD3000, at least 4GB RAM (probably more), and crappy screens. Probably 768p.

All machines playback MP4 and MKV very fluidly.

As far as recording video. I have never done that before. How would I do this?

Thanks for the info on the different video formats. PS3 makes sense to me. There is definitely less stutter during panning on the PS3 compared to me plugging my laptop into the TV and watching that way. I haven't done a significant amount of testing but I feel like while the stutter is there either way, it may or may not be an even greater issue with the subtitles on.

I COULD get an HDMI adapter for the iPad and watch on my TV that way if CR supports that, but I would rather not. That'd be a crummy solution.

Also bought a Roku for a day and feel like playback was at least a little more smooth on there. Does Roku get its own encodes or are they the same as PS3? I returned it because I mainly got it for the FUNimation app. That app is very poorly designed and slow and the sound quality is awful.

I will try playing a video without logging in. I have noticed a few people in other threads seeming to think the crappy playback was on their account but necessarily on other accounts. Sounds weird. But if it works it works. Problem is I paid $50 for a year on this account.
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