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Post Reply Does CR stream at 24 or 30 FPS?
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26 / M / Boston, MA
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Posted 5/2/13 , edited 5/2/13
Here is a video I took from my phone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7obha9qrzO8

You can see the stuttering I am talking about during the pan up sequence w/ the white haired guy. I also noticed it earlier in the video, but it is most obvious near the end. Sometimes the stuttering is worse. Sometimes I might get lucky and not have it at all. But usually it is there in some form.

This stuff happens on EVERY laptop I try. It is NOT a Mac issue. The laptop used here is an HP. I work at a repair shop so I have lots of computers I can try things out on.

This particular laptop is on a solid Internet connection, has a 2.3GHz quad core i7 Ivy Bridge processor, HD4000 + 650m, 12GB RAM.
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27 / M / California
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Posted 5/2/13
Issues like that are usually with the source video we are given by the Publisher. I confirmed that Devil Survivor episode 2 has the same slight stuttering in the source video at the same time you pointed out. I don't know if that is just an issue with how it was animated or how it was encoded before reaching us. We will look into it further but I can't guarantee if we'll get a replacement that resolves the issue.

Though for stuttering that isn't always reproducible, that would be due to local decoding issues on the device you are using. Frames may be dropping in favor of continuous playback.
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26 / M / Boston, MA
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Posted 5/2/13
Thanks for the info. So 4 laptops, PS3, 360, etc. are all not capable of properly decoding these videos? Every laptop I have tried is at least a Sandy Bridge quad core i7 or Ivy Bridge dual core i5 -quad core i7. That sounds pretty strange to me.

I'll be over a friend's this weekend who says he doesn't see the stuttering issues on his CR account. His computer is no better and he has the same model of PS3 with a much weaker internet connection. So it'll be interesting to see whether I see the stutter or if it is SOMEHOW all this hardware or some odd issue with my CR account.
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26 / M / Boston, MA
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Posted 5/2/13
Wanted to update and say that I received a full refund on my 1 year subscription. Which is great since I still have a week left in the trial period.

I will try playing some videos on my iPad at home though it pains me to even think about using this as a TV replacement. But MAYBE I could get used to it? And if do I might try a 1 month subscription and see how much I actually use it. I mainly use my Vita and 3DS for all my gaming so portable anime could even be good. Only really use the PS3 for Project DIVA F w/ arcade controller... So who knows?

I could also get the Roku 3 again. I feel like that had less stuttering issues. But it is $100 for smoother access to Crunchyroll and that is all. All the other channels on the Roku are useless to me.

I do really wish the online player from Crunchyroll.com and the PS3/360 apps would get better. Hopefully sooner than later. I feel like I could be running a desktop with dual 8-core Xeons, 3 Titans in SLI, and 256GB RAM and it still wouldn't make the playback smooth. So get that player and those apps fixed up, and I will happily become a satisfied CR subscriber.

Thanks.
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26 / M / San Antonio
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Posted 5/2/13 , edited 5/2/13

Erikdayo wrote:

Thanks for the info. So 4 laptops, PS3, 360, etc. are all not capable of properly decoding these videos? Every laptop I have tried is at least a Sandy Bridge quad core i7 or Ivy Bridge dual core i5 -quad core i7. That sounds pretty strange to me.


No, that isn't what BK was implying. He said that with video you provided, the stuttering is present in the source video of that particular episode, meaning that it will happen to everyone and it is not caused by something wrong with your computer(s).

The comment about the frames dropping due to your computer not being able to decode the video fast enough was in reference to stuttering that is NOT easily replicated, meaning that it happens on some computer but not on others.

Does this stuttering happen on ALL videos and ALL panning scenes, or just on select episodes and scenes? If it was an issue with the player not decoding the video correctly, it would be happening all the time.

The above is what I was trying to differentiate because a lot of people have widely varying definitions of "stuttering" and when it occurs. If it is a problem with the source file, then CR can talk with the content providers. If the stuttering is caused by something on the users end, then troubleshooting needs to occur to help fix the problem. But none of that can happen until the problem is correctly identified first.




I'll be over a friend's this weekend who says he doesn't see the stuttering issues on his CR account. His computer is no better and he has the same model of PS3 with a much weaker internet connection. So it'll be interesting to see whether I see the stutter or if it is SOMEHOW all this hardware or some odd issue with my CR account.


Try it with several different episodes, from different shows, to lower the risk of the problem being related to the source video. There is a chance that some f the stuttering you are experiencing may be caused by a problem on your end, but we won't know without knowing the specific scenes and episodes that you have the stuttering problem with.

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Posted 5/2/13
I've had some stuttering on panning scenes before, and one thing I've noticed is that it usually goes away if I right click the video and "disable video smoothing" and then exit/re-enter full screen mode. Unfortunately this does have an impact on how the video looks, so even if it works for you it may not be an ideal solution.


BasouKazuma wrote:

Issues like that are usually with the source video we are given by the Publisher. I confirmed that Devil Survivor episode 2 has the same slight stuttering in the source video at the same time you pointed out. I don't know if that is just an issue with how it was animated or how it was encoded before reaching us. We will look into it further but I can't guarantee if we'll get a replacement that resolves the issue.

A bit off topic, but I've been very displeased with the source video quality of Devil Survivor 2 in general, especially in dark scenes. I think most showgate series on this site actually have the same problem, it's just much more noticeable here because of the animation style and color palette (I remember having similar issues with Amnesia and Cuticle Detective Inaba). A whole scene in episode 5 looks like this:
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26 / M / Boston, MA
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Posted 5/3/13 , edited 5/3/13

I understand very well what he was saying. It definitely happens on 100% of videos. Most definitely an issue with the player. It can be noticeable even when it isn't a panning sequence. Just becomes most apparent during panning.

It happens on every computer I have tried. Zero exceptions. Need me to try another 4 laptops at work today? How about a few desktops? I am confident the issue will appear on all of them. The problem, I think, is Flash and/or Crunchyroll's player. When I play the same episode of Devil Survivor 2 on my iPad there is no stuttering during that sequence. For whatever reason the stuttering it affecting PS3, 360, Windows, and Mac OS.

I will definitely try a bunch of videos this weekend. If for whatever reason there is no stutter there I will not have an explanation for it. Unless it only affects certain accounts. Like maybe we get connected to different services. Perhaps I should try my account on his PS3. I have also had the issue with videos pausing because they may not be loading fast enough though only a few times. Weird considering my connection speed and how consistent it is with everything else I use.

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Posted 5/3/13 , edited 5/3/13


I will absolutely not turn off the smoothing. The color banding and blocking are bad enough. The streams look far more atrocious with no smoothing.

Guess legit streaming services just don't know how to get the job done quite yet. And for all the complaining I may seem to be doing Crunchyroll is actually the best service available at current. Especially for those of us that prefer subs. Despite all the complaints I do have faith that CR will get things right eventually.

Are you referring to the scene being too dark or all the blocking and color banding? Because blocking and color banding are very prominent on 100% of CR streams I have seen. They really need to fix that. I could re-encode a re-encode of a re-encode of a re-encode, and it would still look better. Thankfully these issues aren't as noticeable on my iPad. Probably because of the smaller screen. It's the sort of junk that turns out if you encode anime with the x264 'animation' tuning. But worse.
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Posted 5/3/13 , edited 5/3/13

Erikdayo wrote:

I will absolutely not turn off the smoothing. The color banding and blocking are bad enough. The streams look far more atrocious with no smoothing.

I'm aware of how it looks (and even mentioned it in my post), but for arguments sake does it fix the issue?


Are you referring to the scene being too dark or all the blocking and color banding? Because blocking and color banding are very prominent on 100% of CR streams I have seen. They really need to fix that. I could re-encode a re-encode of a re-encode of a re-encode, and it would still look better. Thankfully these issues aren't as noticeable on my iPad. Probably because of the smaller screen. It's the sort of junk that turns out if you encode anime with the x264 'animation' tuning. But worse.

The blocking and color banding. I'm also well aware that all CR streams have a certain degree of it, but no other series has had it anywhere near as bad as Devil Survivor 2. I'm not going to criticize the encoding issues as I've read the reasons behind it, and in most cases it doesn't even look too bad. Unfortunately there are a select few series that really suffer from the banding, but 95% of series are fine.

This isn't the case with Devil Survivor 2 which I'm sure is suffering from a bad source video. Maybe CR's encoding is making it look even worse, but I'm sure it would look much better with a good quality source.
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26 / M / Boston, MA
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Posted 5/3/13

I'll check after work, since my boss is in now. But I believe I briefly tried this before, and it did not fix things. Though without a lot of testing I cannot be sure whether it helped at least a little bit or not.

I've seen episodes of a few different series that were basically cringe worthy with the blocking and banding. ESPECIALLY during dark scenes. But yes, it is USUALLY at least acceptable even if not ideal. Certainly 'good enough'. At least until I can grab BDs.
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26 / M / San Antonio
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Posted 5/3/13

Erikdayo wrote:


Guess legit streaming services just don't know how to get the job done quite yet. And for all the complaining I may seem to be doing Crunchyroll is actually the best service available at current. Especially for those of us that prefer subs. Despite all the complaints I do have faith that CR will get things right eventually.

Are you referring to the scene being too dark or all the blocking and color banding? Because blocking and color banding are very prominent on 100% of CR streams I have seen. They really need to fix that. I could re-encode a re-encode of a re-encode of a re-encode, and it would still look better. Thankfully these issues aren't as noticeable on my iPad. Probably because of the smaller screen. It's the sort of junk that turns out if you encode anime with the x264 'animation' tuning. But worse.



Sadley, either due to time constraints or contract stipulations Crunchyroll is unable to "doctor" up their video sources like Fansub groups can. Fansub groups can run a video through all kinds of filters to fix jutter, banding, artifacts, ect... but CR is unable to do that.

There are Fansub groups that do not fix up their source material and end up putting on videos with the same kinds of problems that Crunchyroll has.

The anime studios would need to provide higher quality source video, but then CR runs into the problem of bandwidth possibly becoming an issue, especially for users on slower connections.

Eventually technology will catch up and allow Crunchyroll to provide both top quality and convenience of streaming. Even Netflix is still having quality problems and they have an infinitely more amount of money than CR. (Even with Netflix's new codec that they just implement, I still see a lot of banding on dark scenes in many shows)
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Posted 5/4/13
Here is what I am finding. It is nearly 5 AM here, and I have started to do a little testing.

Now, I could just be very tired. But it does seem like there is, in fact, less stutter up here in New Hampshire as opposed to my FiOS connection just north of Boston and my work's Verizon DSL in Boston. It isn't perfect, but is better to the point where I would probably say it is acceptable for a stream.

I have to admit that I am surprised. Pleasantly, if I can get it working better back at home. Do you think switching to OpenDNS would possibly help? I switched my laptop to OpenDNS, but I probably won't be able to really tell until I get home whether it will help on my FiOS connection.

Anyway, I hope it works. If it does I will certainly re-consider and probably get a subscription happily.

While we are at it, are there any other things I might try at home to improve the smoothness of the playback? Thanks!
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Posted 5/4/13

Erikdayo wrote:

Here is what I am finding. It is nearly 5 AM here, and I have started to do a little testing.

Now, I could just be very tired. But it does seem like there is, in fact, less stutter up here in New Hampshire as opposed to my FiOS connection just north of Boston and my work's Verizon DSL in Boston. It isn't perfect, but is better to the point where I would probably say it is acceptable for a stream.

I have to admit that I am surprised. Pleasantly, if I can get it working better back at home. Do you think switching to OpenDNS would possibly help? I switched my laptop to OpenDNS, but I probably won't be able to really tell until I get home whether it will help on my FiOS connection.

Anyway, I hope it works. If it does I will certainly re-consider and probably get a subscription happily.

While we are at it, are there any other things I might try at home to improve the smoothness of the playback? Thanks!


If the stuttering is the same as in the video clip you provided, that does not look to me like a connection issue. When it is a connection issue the stuttering is more pronounced and the audio also skips as well.


You can always try a different DNS, it doesn't hurt to try and it is easy to do. You can try different kinds of DNS servers as well, or even run a DNS benchmark to try and find fast DNS servers near your location.

What episode and at what time stamp was the video recording you made on your phone at? I haven't started watching that series yet and I want to take a look at the video on my devices.

Can you also give another example (series, episode, and time stamp) of a scene where you notice significant stutter?

I also want to point out that for many series (especially older ones) a stutter can become present due to the nature of the uneven way things are animated. Characters and moving objects usually animated in the 10-15fps range and background images are in the single digit range, but the video is output at 24fps (with some shows at 30fps). But this may not be what you are seeing, but there is no way to tell unless I or someone else sees it as well.

Posted 5/4/13
yes im having the same issues with the ps3 and its not my connection >.> netflix plays flawlessly........
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Posted 5/4/13

The stuttering was not the same as the video clip I provided. In fact, I made it through that whole section without any really bad stutters. Any stutters that were there were very minor and acceptable.

Yea. I'll be trying OpenDNS tomorrow night. If it DOES make a difference that would be excellent.

I do not remember the time on the episode. But it is Devil Survivor 2 episode 2 right near the beginning. Within the first 2 minutes.

Everything has stutter when I am at home or work. I would love it if it were just the Verizon default DNS settings and if the OpenDNS fixes it. If not, do you have any other ideas? I might be just out of luck.

Yea. Though I have not seen much stutter in many series I do know that frame rates in anime are generally pretty low and sometimes not everything shares the same frame rate. Pretty interesting stuff. As a more recent example I heard something about the OreImo season 1 credits being at a different FPS than the ending animations.
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