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Does Anime degrade women?
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Posted 5/7/13 , edited 5/7/13

AnimeKami wrote:


Des85 wrote:


Shrapnel893 wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:

hentai does it all the time


Not the hentai I watch. I mean, maybe Taimanin Asagi and Kangoku Senkan off the top of my head.


Which hentais do you watch?


it took 1 minute for this to be reported

I don't want to be inferred as an inconsiderate ass but…

95% of hentais tag with rape is not rape. It portrays women as slaves of lust and can't live without a male.

note: I am simply answering the topic to the best of my ability and a hentai is a form of anime.




i swear every hentai i looked at was rape >.> i feel there bad and pointless in making because rape is a bad thing its a turn off if anything tsun tsun maid is were its at
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Posted 5/7/13

Insomnist wrote:

I'm kind of curious what people think about Motoko Kusanagi in particular. She was a source of a LOT of fanservice in the manga (including one incredibly raunchy 3-way lesbian scene), but she still came across as her own person. And they built skyscrapers on that foundation when it came to the anime adaptations - somehow everything came across as empowering instead of degrading. Including the way she dressed, her bisexuality, her independence, etc.

That was a pretty impressive feat when you think about it.


This part in bold kind of confuses me, does it boil down to whether or not the female in question is a plausible character?
Kurokami Medaka is a bit of the same way. She's superpowerful, she kissed that swimmer girl, she altered her school uniform specifically to show off her cleavage, self-proclaimed exhibitionist, source of much fanservice, etc. And you can argue on top of that that she's a very good person, and tries to act selflessly at all times. But there's no way you can call her character plausible or realistic, so does that just make her an object of men's desires?

On a similar note (though not anime related), I've seen this happen when actresses decide to do their first topless scene. In the context of the movie, it's obviously for the guys to enjoy, even if it is story-related, but in meta, women will praise that same girl for her courage as an actress or some crap like that. It's confusing to me. Chicks, man.

I don't mean to start talking about nude scenes or anything. I'm just wondering what the specific difference is between what women find degrading and empowering in terms of sexual confidence or openness.
mipegg 
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Posted 5/7/13
In some way, but the amount of steriotypes in anime applies to both genders. How often is it you see a main male character whos not 1 of absolute pussy, pervert, overpowered hero or total ladies man? There are characters they, but these characatures are in place for men as well as women and at the end of the day its fantasy, why does it needs to be indicative of reality?
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Posted 5/7/13 , edited 5/7/13

TrueGoober wrote:


Insomnist wrote:

I'm kind of curious what people think about Motoko Kusanagi in particular. She was a source of a LOT of fanservice in the manga (including one incredibly raunchy 3-way lesbian scene), but she still came across as her own person. And they built skyscrapers on that foundation when it came to the anime adaptations - somehow everything came across as empowering instead of degrading. Including the way she dressed, her bisexuality, her independence, etc.

That was a pretty impressive feat when you think about it.


This part in bold kind of confuses me, does it boil down to whether or not the female in question is a plausible character?

I don't know! That's what makes it so weird!

It just randomly occurred to me that I thought she was an incredibly empowered female character among anime female characters. But there are so many elements that are a part of her character that are usually setups to throw blatant sexual pandering at the audience. But somehow here that wasn't what it was in the anime. AND IT'S WEIRD.

I mean just look at the way she dresses. And somehow we take that completely seriously. ALL THE TIME.

Maybe it's because of her perfect self-confidence and assurance. But whatever it is, the outcome is simply impressive.

I haven't seen Madoka Box so I can't really touch on that.

I don't think plausibility is a requirement though (thinking about Haruko Haruhara from FLCL).

Related:


TrueGoober wrote:

On a similar note (though not anime related), I've seen this happen when actresses decide to do their first topless scene. In the context of the movie, it's obviously for the guys to enjoy, even if it is story-related, but in meta, women will praise that same girl for her courage as an actress or some crap like that. It's confusing to me. Chicks, man.

The old-time "Bond Girls" and early Playboy were heralded by feminists as being gender-defying. Like, "housewives" in the 50's would go out and buy Playboy Magazine to support feminism in the media.

Obviously things have changed, and today we see this sort of thing as objectifying women.

So... yeah. WEIRD.
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Posted 5/7/13

maffayoo wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:


Des85 wrote:


Shrapnel893 wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:

hentai does it all the time


Not the hentai I watch. I mean, maybe Taimanin Asagi and Kangoku Senkan off the top of my head.


Which hentais do you watch?


it took 1 minute for this to be reported

I don't want to be inferred as an inconsiderate ass but…

95% of hentais tag with rape is not rape. It portrays women as slaves of lust and can't live without a male.

note: I am simply answering the topic to the best of my ability and a hentai is a form of anime.




i swear every hentai i looked at was rape >.> i feel there bad and pointless in making because rape is a bad thing its a turn off if anything tsun tsun maid is were its at


there is tsun tsun maid hentai however those portray women as nymphos if this counts as degrading women
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Posted 5/7/13
A lot of anime actually really empowers women. You can be cute, feminine and still kick ass (Shana, Saber, Yuki, etc..). Granted as with all media, some anime is done well, some not so much. I think overall the anime does a better job than typical live action TV/Movies.
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Posted 5/7/13

AnimeKami wrote:


maffayoo wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:


Des85 wrote:


Shrapnel893 wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:

hentai does it all the time


Not the hentai I watch. I mean, maybe Taimanin Asagi and Kangoku Senkan off the top of my head.


Which hentais do you watch?


it took 1 minute for this to be reported

I don't want to be inferred as an inconsiderate ass but…

95% of hentais tag with rape is not rape. It portrays women as slaves of lust and can't live without a male.

note: I am simply answering the topic to the best of my ability and a hentai is a form of anime.




i swear every hentai i looked at was rape >.> i feel there bad and pointless in making because rape is a bad thing its a turn off if anything tsun tsun maid is were its at


there is tsun tsun maid hentai however those portray women as nymphos if this counts as degrading women



as far as i see it it portrayed women as someone who is willing to do anything if asked >.> slutty basically
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Posted 5/7/13 , edited 5/7/13

Pomff wrote:
The number of competent female characters who pass the Bechdel test is significantly lower than the number of shallow shonen love interests, personality-less tsunderes, and bouncy titted bimbos.


Pomff demonstrates her usual veracity, making me immediately consider examples of her description. There should be a boob size to head size ratio rule. Like your boobs can't individually be bigger than your head. Or at least something that doesn't make me think that the character needs an emergency breast pump so that she can feed a small nation. Don't get me wrong; I like fanservice. Good fanservice can make up (to some extent) for a crappy plot and shallow characters. Unfortunately, a lot of anime is full of shallow characters and bad fanservice, and most (not all) female characters are pretty pathetic, especially the characters in shoujo anime.

Edit:

maffayoo wrote:
as far as i see it it portrayed women as someone who is willing to do anything if asked >.> slutty basically

So this is something I really don't get. Why are girls supposed to keep their sexiness all locked up? What's the point of having a girlfriend who won't let you take off her pants? That's just stupid.
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Posted 5/7/13 , edited 5/7/13

Kagato666 wrote:

A lot of anime actually really empowers women. You can be cute, feminine and still kick ass (Shana, Saber, Yuki, etc..). Granted as with all media, some anime is done well, some not so much. I think overall the anime does a better job than typical live action TV/Movies.


I agree, far from perfect, and not without certain problematic behaviours/scenes. but over all I see what I would perceive as empowering messages in the prevalance of strong female characters. especially in the less mainstream and more 'artsy' animes.

of course then again. viewed from a certain perspective Bond Girls can be seen as empowering... until they lose to Bond.

actually the comparison between many a 'strong' female anime character and a 'bond girl' is apt. This is less because of a progressive attitude in Japan and more because young and female is the bottom of the totem pole social convention. (age permits everything). this makes an assertive possibly violent/and or well-armed outspoken female the 'forbidden fruit' that sells anime to people expect their women to be more like Rei Ayanami.

PS and interestingly enough one of the most 'empowering' females mentioned this thread.

The Major, actually doesn't pass the Bechdel test. simply because she's pretty much the only woman in the OVA. the few women she meets in the TV series ... well they don't talk about men but that's because a) they're too busy attempting to neutralize each other or b) they're talking nothing but business.



Posted 5/7/13

LynnTerra wrote:

I think in some respects it has, and continues to be, degrading to women. Though on the flip side, you see a lot of strong female leads too that aren't big titty, blonde, brainless, and baring their bodies to everyone like it's going out of style.


^ This. I see some instances where I kinda have a 'Wow, this is going a little far' but it doesn't really happen that often with what I watch.
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Posted 5/7/13

mhibicke wrote:
What's the point of having a girlfriend who won't let you take off her pants? That's just stupid.


Love isn't sex, you know.
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Posted 5/7/13

TrueGoober wrote:


mhibicke wrote:
What's the point of having a girlfriend who won't let you take off her pants? That's just stupid.


Love isn't sex, you know.


That's called being friends.
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Posted 5/7/13 , edited 5/7/13

mhibicke wrote:
So this is something I really don't get. Why are girls supposed to keep their sexiness all locked up? What's the point of having a girlfriend who won't let you take off her pants? That's just stupid.


The key factor in weather a portrayal of a female character as a sexual being is degrading/exploitative or NOT, comes down to an issue of control.

In a lot of anime girls/women are portrayed as one of two polarities Virgins or Sluts. Asexual 'good girls' or bad little whores. Sometimes they can be both. were the inexperienced virgin is simply a slut-in-waiting. This reflects a desire to control female sexuality:

Either they have to keep it locked away or have to be available to any man that wants it.

An empowered sexuality is one where the woman clearly has control. Perhaps this is Motoko Kusinagi's strength. In every format I've seen of her it's been very clear that no one makes that woman do ANYTHING she doesn't want. And you know who is going to be TOP in any relationship involving her.
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Posted 5/7/13 , edited 5/7/13

maffayoo wrote:
i swear every hentai i looked at was rape >.> i feel there bad and pointless in making because rape is a bad thing its a turn off if anything tsun tsun maid is were its at


I could make a long list of hentais that doesn't have rape, but AnimeKami (might) have done that already, and he got reported, so I won't do it :P
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Posted 5/7/13

papagolfwhiskey wrote:
In a lot of anime girls/women are portrayed as one of two polarities Virgins or Sluts. Asexual 'good girls' or bad little whores. Sometimes they can be both. were the inexperienced virgin is simply a slut-in-waiting. This reflects a desire to control female sexuality either they have to keep it locked away or have to be available to any man that wants it.

That's the part I don't understand - compartmentalizing women as either/or like that, and trying to control their sexuality. Isn't it better when women do who/what they feel like doing (and it's you)? I am just mystified how the virgin/slut paradigm can be the slightest bit appealing. I wouldn't waste my time with either. Motoko Kusinagi on the other hand... instant fetish mode.
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