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Do Not Resuscitate (DNR)
16241 cr points
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34 / F / Canada
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Posted 1/28/08
I don't want to a burden. and most people wouldn't want to be one either.

if the patient chooses that...then i agree with this rule >_< Long as they choose to, i think it should be allowed...after all, they're the one getting the most affected.
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76 / M / Florida, US
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Posted 1/28/08
I think you have to respect the person's wishes. But there have to be restrictions where they can't just fill out a DNR form just because they don't want to be revived if they had a heart attack and will be fine when they are brought back. But I mean... if it's like a terminal cancer in it's late stages, I respect the person's wishes.
If they are going to be a vegetable, I say pull the plug if they asked for it. I would probably pull the plug even if nothing was mentioned and there was no chance of them being treated.
I know religious people argue against this sometimes, but think of it this way. If religion says that pulling the plug on a person is bad, isn't it unnatural to be keeping the person alive with an artificial device? Remove all the equipment and let them be then. I would've assumed that artificially keeping someone alive would also be against the will of god if you thought religiously.
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30 / M / Japan
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Posted 1/28/08

maphae wrote:

on my part, i really disagree with it. I work in a hospital and encounter patients in such conditions and it's kinda hard to just ignore her/him as s/he dies...


I understand your point, but you have to remember that as primary health givers, one of the important aspects of health care is the autonomy of the patient. Though we may not understand their decision, at times, we have to respect it, and give them (at the very least) the most informed decision that they probably could ever make.

I may be a little stressing on my patient if they were to decline from taking a certain medication or medical procedure, but I definitely won't coerce them. And as far as DNR is concerned, I leave it totally to them. It may be because of religious/cultural beliefs, or what not ~ but the patient is free to decide that this is fitting for him, and DNR is not succumbing to death ~ it is simply conceding to the wishes of the patient, which is the reason why we work in the health institution.
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25 / M / USA
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Posted 1/28/08
I think the Doctor should decide, sometimes people get sick, and panick and worry about suffering, so they say DNR when it really isnt that serious of a disease... Sometimes the doctors have the wrong diagnosis, and your walking around the hospital and get a little heat stroke and since you have a DNR they have to let you die...
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25 / F / pepsi vending mac...
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Posted 1/28/08
dissagree. if the patient dies in the process of being saved than ok. and if he or she lives then they are alive and well or half dead. and depending on what they are suffering then at that time the health proxy of the family can decide wither to pull the plug or n ot. at least it wont be on the doctor's conscience.
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28 / F
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Posted 1/28/08
I definitely agree with DNR. First of all, I think some people might have misread the first post. It's never up to the doctor as to have the patient resuscitated or not. When the patient comes to the hospital, they or their power of attorney are asked to make an advanced directive as to say if they want full resuscitation, partial or none and there has to be a signed document with the patient and the doctor's signature for the decision to take effect. If they do end up coding and no one can find the Do not resuscitate order, then they automatically revert back to Full code and the hospital staff will do everything in their power to keep that patient alive. Of all the patients that I have cared for at the hospital, I rarely have run into DNR, except for when the patient is elderly (in their late 80's or 90's). One time a patient was rescued with a DNR order and the patient was very displease to have to suffer longer with the pain, ended up passing on later anyways. It really is our job as care takers to help patients to be at the optimal level of comfort and health. The patients have to be a part of them getting better, we can't force them to do so. It's all about respecting a person's choices, like we don't force Jehovah witnesses patients to get blood transfusions even if they need it to live. Because it's their belief and choice. They would not like to live with the fact they went again their religious value to survive.

BTW: The rule about DNR I just stated applies in Washington U.S. I don't really know about other places...
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34 / F / I dont speak english
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Posted 1/28/08
There is conditions to DNR.

Its not ALWAYS the patient decision, since some patients are in a state (mentally and/or physicly) where its about impossible for them to take a decision. From what I know, it can make or break a familly like nothing else. It bring the worst in everyone.

I live a very particular situation since i was working for 4 years in a hospital for terminal disease. When you get in this hospital, the day you get out is always feet first. I loved my job, and i also was in the same situation as the autor of the topic. Its heartbreaking to see those people die, live, right there, in front of you. But i think its 10 times more hard to see people do therapeutic harassement. Those who dont want to die... those are difficult both on the familly, the patient and the hospital staff.

I think everyone should be able to choose for themself. I would sign a DNR in a heartbeat (what a bad play of words)

I think its even more important in country where you have to pay for medical care. You dont want to be a burden for your familly and friends, you dont want to have a lost in autonomy, you dont want to continu to live. I think its a decision you dont take whitout have thinking about it truthfully. Dont go think we sign those just like that, on the corner of nurse post. Its something we discuss witht he paient, sometimes with the familly, and the decision is taken. There is time where psychologist are imply. It will be discuss alot more if the person is in a very good shape than if the person is in a terminal disease.

I dont think that if tomorow morning i walk up to my doctor and ask to sign a DNR that i will not be refered to a psychological help... even tho they cant refuse it to me.

Doctors, nurse, and all the staff does NOT feel responsible for the death of those people. I saw engouh people die, i holded engouh hands, i call engouh priest and familly at the last minutes, to know that everyone know its the disease's fault. Sometimes, the person who sign the DNR is hated. But its rare. Most the time, people accept it. And thats a great thing.

We should all be able to choose for ourself.


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28 / F / cLouD9
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Posted 1/28/08

riavan wrote:


maphae wrote:

A Do Not Resuscitate, or DNR order is a written order from a doctor that resuscitation should not be attempted if a person suffers cardiac or respiratory arrest. Such an order may be instituted on the basis of an advance directive from a person, or from someone entitled to make decisions on their behalf, such as a health care proxy; in some jurisdictions, such orders can also be instituted on the basis of a physician's own initiative, usually when resuscitation would not alter the ultimate outcome of a disease.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_resuscitate)

on my part, i really disagree with it. I work in a hospital and encounter patients in such conditions and it's kinda hard to just ignore her/him as s/he dies...



You can get sued for the death of a person obviously.



if there is a DNR order, you will not be sued. infact you are expected to ignore the patient or just do certain acts just for show off.
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24 / M / MA
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Posted 1/28/08
I doubt anyone has already said this, but the dnr can also be used for patients who want to be cryogenically frozen, since federal laws only allow this once someone has officially dead. Its just another reason for this.
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26 / M / Frozen over momo...
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Posted 1/28/08
If it came down to me being a vegetable I'd say put my ass down
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30 / M / Belgium
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Posted 1/28/08
DNR is a choice..the hospital staff has no choice but to oblidge too it..moral or immoral.
of course in my country there are 3 differecnt DNR codes depending on the evasiveness of the action
what i mean is like eg. heart massage is okay but nothing evasive like intubating.
anyways I have worked in a hospital and DNR code hmm... i may not agree with it fully since i believe in life but it's just a choice...it's not my part to question it.
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27 / M / Singapore ~
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Posted 1/29/08
depending on situation . DNR might be acceptable. ^^ if that person which will be revived becomes a paralyzed person for the rest of his life or will have a life full of problems which is really better if he was dead.
Posted 5/6/08

maphae wrote:

A Do Not Resuscitate, or DNR order is a written order from a doctor that resuscitation should not be attempted if a person suffers cardiac or respiratory arrest. Such an order may be instituted on the basis of an advance directive from a person, or from someone entitled to make decisions on their behalf, such as a health care proxy; in some jurisdictions, such orders can also be instituted on the basis of a physician's own initiative, usually when resuscitation would not alter the ultimate outcome of a disease.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_resuscitate)

on my part, i really disagree with it. I work in a hospital and encounter patients in such conditions and it's kinda hard to just ignore her/him as s/he dies...


Actually DNR is not a letter from a doctor. It's a legalized request from the patient. The doctor doesn't even have to know about it until such incident occurs. Basically this is how it works:

A person can under any health circumstance, create a living will, in which case said person can have a health document created, in this document they can state everything from whether they want hospice care, home care, or in hospital treatment in the case that they are not mentally capable of stating such a desire verbally or in writing at that unfortunate moment. If they are brain dead for example. In this document they can also state their choice intention to NOT be resuscitated. It's not just for cardiac arrest or respiratory arrest, it can be for situations where the brain is not even communicating with the rest of the body. This person has a relative or close friend, even a lawyer to ensure that the medics/doctor/surgeons who treat them follow the exact orders on that document, which can include the DNR order.

The things that complicate these orders are the personal emotions of the individuals who are close to the person in question. Many times relatives DON'T want to follow the orders, and under many circumstances even file injunctions to abstain the order from being followed.

Personally I feel the person who asks for DNR should have their request valued. It's cruel to indignify someone and force them to live under conditions that they might find painful in their mind. Many people fail to realize that even braindead people have nerves. While their brain may not be receptive of the pain indicator, their body and nerves are. Some people may debate that the brain is the decisor of whether or not a person can actually feel pain but I respectfully disagree. I am pretty sure that even a brain dead persons BODY can have memory cells in the flesh that will remind them of a missing arm etc.

I won't state whether or not I have a DNR order because I'd rather have my statement looked at objectively.
The Moderator
Nicole 
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30 / F / Space
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Posted 5/6/08 , edited 5/6/08
The issue of DNR has always been hotly debated within the area of biomedical ethics, though it's mostly not based on the principle of whether it is wrong or right. Most of the conflicting literature is on who is making the decision -- the patient or the patient's family (in most cases).

I read somewhere that do-not-resuscitate orders can be basically divided into three rationales, two of which are based on the quality-of-life the patient and patient family would be experiencing if efforts were to be made to lengthen the longevity of life. Since the decision would be ultimately based on the request of the person being treated or, in cases of incompetency, the family of said person, doctors are not allowed to write a DNR without their consent. However, some argue about the third rationale, in which the permission may be overlooked because resuscitation would be futile anyway.

I do support DNR, but like other have said.. the conditions that surround the circumstance play an important factor.
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