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Legal Implications of Anime Pirating
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23 / M / Ohio
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Posted 5/12/13
1. Unlike, I've never even herd of anyone getting caught.

2. You can't really stop piracy... If people can openly connect to each on the Internet, then they can pirate.

3. If you like Anime, you should support it by paying for it... But you don't have too if you don't want to. (or can't)

4. Never.
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Posted 5/12/13

Ember_McLain wrote:

4. "If I ever" Har har har. Please. And no, I do not feel guilty. On the contrary, they (studios) should feel guility that they rip off fans with $90 BD's and $800 collectors editions, it's retarded.


How else do you expect them to recoup the costs for making anime in the first place?

Top 10 anime last week in Japan:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.co.uk/news/2013-05-12/japan-animation-tv-ranking-april-29-may-5

Notice most of them are children shows (Yes, shonen is primarily for children)

Anime is a niche market for otakus. The only way companies can recoup the costs from such a small market is to charge enough to make even from such a small population.
I doubt you can change the price to $30 like here in the states and expect these companies still exist a couple of years down the line.

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Posted 5/12/13

hunteriv4 wrote:

CR is handy, and I pay for it because I support what they're doing, but as a service they're still way below what I expect from modern technology. They don't have all the series that I want, their subtitles are worse translations than fansubs, they're online only, and they censor their anime.


Crunchyroll does not censor the shows. All censoring is done in Japan. See these threads for more info:

- mature anime and censoring... [http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-801425/mature-anime-and-censoring]
- Is every anime on Crunchyroll censored? [http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-757119/is-every-anime-on-crunchyroll-censored]
Posted 5/12/13 , edited 5/12/13

FallenYmir wrote:

Ember_McLain wrote:

4. "If I ever" Har har har. Please. And no, I do not feel guilty. On the contrary, they (studios) should feel guility that they rip off fans with $90 BD's and $800 collectors editions, it's retarded.


How else do you expect them to recoup the costs for making anime in the first place?

Top 10 anime last week in Japan:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.co.uk/news/2013-05-12/japan-animation-tv-ranking-april-29-may-5

Notice most of them are children shows (Yes, shonen is primarily for children)

Anime is a niche market for otakus. The only way companies can recoup the costs from such a small market is to charge enough to make even from such a small population.
I doubt you can change the price to $30 like here in the states and expect these companies still exist a couple of years down the line.



The notion that studios "need" to charge that much is absurd; equally absurd is the commonly held suspicion that Japanese pricing models should be consistent internationally.

Before claiming that studios must rob fans to support themselves, first consider the price of other media in Japan. The Dark Knight Rises box set can be purchased on amazon for 39.96 USD while the same item can be purchased on amazon.co.jp for 58.95 USD (at 0.01 USD to 1 JPY). Import costs, some may say, but not even the highest tariffs and taxation will account for a $20 difference -- mind you, that same set can be purchased in India for an equivalent 41.34 USD. Japanese market pricing generally dictates exorbitant markups on digital media.

Before anyone mentions it, I will say there is a difference between expensive and being ripped off. I don't necessarily have a problem, not really, with buying a figure for $60 + $20 shipping. But paying $90 for a two episode "limited" BD, that is ridiculous.

That pricing model is not, I dare say, to support or in favor of studios continued production but only there because it is what the Japanese are willing to pay. Nevertheless, even if that pricing model was required for sustained production It can be seen that disinterested foreign markets are unwilling to pay it. Higher profit can be achieved with differential pricing in different markets. This method can be seen with the previously mentioned Dark Knight Rises DVD. Why is it $20 more in Japan while it's only $2 more in India, for the EXACT same item? Because that is what the Japanese market is willing to pay.
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Posted 5/12/13
Don't think anyone has been sued in the United States for downloading anime. You'll probably get warnings from your ISPs and eventually get disconnected if you keep caught.

Not sure if you remember this, but Funimation tried to filed a lawsuit for 1337 bittorrent users , so they could get the people's name/address, to make them settle. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-03-24/funimation-dismisses-its-one-piece-bittorrent-lawsuit.

There's direct downloading since the liability at your end would be limited to only d/ling, and you don't hear anyone getting caught from direct downloading, unless its a honeypot.

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Posted 5/12/13
Subduing piracy isn't possible without severely restricting the internet to the point of turning it into a corporate wasteland. So that isn't really an option.

The trick, apparently, is to use the internet instead of fighting it. Steam, the Humble Bundle series, and other imitators are quickly making game piracy irrelevant by providing an affordable and far better method of getting games. Reasonable, flexible prices on things people actually want lead to the producers earning bucketloads of money, which is also why Kickstarter and the like are ridiculously successful.

For anime, Crunchyroll is a start, but it generates so little money for the producers that it isn't much of an improvement over piracy. If they could get an international Steam-like pay-for-download service going, and realize that most people won't pay hundreds of dollars for a series, they'd get more money than they'd know what to do with. I don't see it happening anytime soon, though.

As for the questions: 1. virtually zero, 2. absolutely not, 3. yes, 4. no.
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Posted 5/12/13
Don't torrent because my campus internet sucks. Honestly, I use the PS3 app of CR because that gets enough bandwidth to get me my HD.
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Posted 5/12/13

Suicidalducky wrote:

Don't think anyone has been sued in the United States for downloading anime. You'll probably get warnings from your ISPs and eventually get disconnected if you keep caught.

Not sure if you remember this, but Funimation tried to filed a lawsuit for 1337 bittorrent users , so they could get the people's name/address, to make them settle. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-03-24/funimation-dismisses-its-one-piece-bittorrent-lawsuit.

There's direct downloading since the liability at your end would be limited to only d/ling, and you don't hear anyone getting caught from direct downloading, unless its a honeypot.



Funimation tried to file lawsuit against 1337 users, but this was dismissed on the grounds that the 1337 users were not acting together. The judge told Funimation that they could still file lawsuit, but they would have to do so for each individual user. Funimation likely dismissed the lawsuit because they decided that filing 1,337 individual lawsuits would have an exorbitant cost, and they wouldn't be able to recoup enough money from the defendants to cover legal expenses.
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Posted 5/13/13
I try to watch anime only streamed on CR.
But if there isn't an anime on here that I have heard of and want to watch, I will illegally watch pirated anime on other websites.
I won't download them, no, but if I absolutely must (which has never happened), I will.
I know there is .01% of me getting caught, but it can prove to be rather risky.
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26 / F / Southern Oregon
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Posted 5/13/13

Gyava wrote:

1. What are the chances of one being even caught?

2. If the answer to the above is none or barely any, do you think that there should be an effort made by the anime industry to enforce some sort of an anti-anime piracy law?

3. Do you think it's alright (morally or legally) for these people to download/stream illegal anime that is NOT licensed by Crunchyroll? I've seen a lot of posts that insult others for pirating anime that CR actually does license, but I haven't seen someone criticize another for illegally watching anime that CR does not license.

4. If you ever did or still illegally stream/download anime, do you feel guilty about it?


1. Not sure but it probably depends on if you are just watching it streaming or actually downloading it.

2. Yes and they already do make and effort to stop it.

3. Well first off there are other companies that do have legal streaming rights outside CR (funimation, viz, viki, ect.), so do you mean do I think any unlicensed streaming/downloading is morally wrong (it's obviously is legally wrong)? Well it depends on a few things.

Strictly speaking for people in NA: If it's a newer show that has just come out then yes it is wrong even if the show isn't picked up right away, there is still plenty of time for companies to decided if the show is viable for a NA release. If it is an older show (like 60s, 70s or 80s era) and it has never been licensed and probably never will be, then it's a bit of a gray area for me. I wouldn't feel bad about streaming a fan sub of such a show, but I would never download it (I think that is always wrong).

Outside of NA: Well there are a lot of other countries that don't have companies like CR to legally stream shows so I leave it up to the fans in those countries to decide if it's right or not. I don't really feel like I have the right to judge them about that because for as long as I can remember I have always had easy access to anime.
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Posted 5/17/13
While CR technically does not censor it's shows they play the censored version, which is pretty much the same thing. If Netflix only played the cut PBS versions of R rated movies, I wouldn't watch those movies on Netflix, and I would accuse Netflix of censorship. Why? Uncensored versions are available and they chose the censored versions.

You can argue that it's because of Japan, but that comes back to a service issue...if you aren't selling the service consumers want, you can't blame consumers for not paying for your stuff. A consumer is not going to pay 10-15x more for an uncensored version of your show. They're going to get it elsewhere, or they're going to not get it at all. The end result is identical; you get nothing, and it's nobody's fault but your own.

I'm not saying that the DBZ, Pokemon, and Sailor Moon didn't impact U.S. interest in anime. They certainly did. They didn't do it alone, and if those were all the U.S. had been exposed to, I sincerely doubt we'd have a fraction of the demand we do today. Nobody I know, and I realize this is circumstantial, became interested in anime due to any of these shows (I've only personally watched DBZ, and I still think it sucks). My first exposure to anime was an Anime Music Video, a technically unauthorized fan creation putting music to anime clips. It got me interested in watching my first anime...Evangelion. Evangelion was not for sale in the U.S., I could not have seen it had it not been for fansubs. That got me interested in other anime, such as Noir, Coyboy Bebop, and Trigun, all of which were unavailable in the U.S. in 2002, at least the licensed versions. Later on I started watching Naruto and Bleach when they were released in Japan...both unavailable in the U.S.

Here's the thing...anime producers can't get much money from me because they aren't selling what I want. Here's what I want. I want to be able to watch new series when they are released, just like people with TVs can do. I want to be able to buy episodes in a digital format that is not linked to some sort of DRM so I can be certain my purchased shows won't disappear with the company I bought them from, and so I can transfer it to any of my computers or devices and watch them offline. And I won't pay more than $2-$3 per episode for a high quality version, and long running series like One Piece or Naruto would need to be less expensive to make them worth buying. Since your distribution cost is virtually zero I should not have to pay an excessive amount.

The assumption that people wouldn't pay, or that this wouldn't be enough money to support the industry, is demonstrably false. A cursory glance at iTunes for music and Steam for video games shows that it's completely viable, although iTunes loses points for being Apple and Steam loses points for it's ineffective-but-irritating DRM. People are paying for Crunchyroll regardless of the fact that a few minutes on Google will get you the same thing for free. Why? Because CR offers something those other places don't...higher quality streaming, less annoying ads, better service for finding anime, and support from the creators. People are willing to pay for these things but first you have to be willing to sell them.

Anime isn't losing popularity due to piracy. This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. You can't lose popularity by having more people watch your stuff, whether they buy it or not. That can only increase popularity, and is an indication that there is a demand; if there wasn't a demand, why would people bother to acquire it in the first place?

Anime is losing popularity due to lack of availability. Most anime come out much later in the U.S. than their Japanese counterparts and end up with horrible dubs and terrible time slots on TV. Of course it's not going to be as popular or as profitable.

The issue is that internet piracy is a symptom of an underlying economic problem. Piracy is created by demand not being met by the supply. People don't pirate what they don't want. If there were a supply, at as reasonable price, piracy would virtually disappear. It's absolutely insane that we're having issues with supply when you're talking about virtual products with no practically no distribution cost. This is why music piracy, once an epidemic, has faded to being almost completely insignificant (although some would argue that it was always insignificant). Music is still overpriced...nobody is going to pay around $7,000 to fill up their 32gb iPod...but it's gotten a lot more reasonable.

If you've been to Japan in the last couple of years you'd know anime has not lost popularity there. You can't walk two blocks in Tokyo without seeing at least one ad for DBZ and One Piece. Heck, the trollies in Hawaii are covered in One Piece ads simply because they're catering to the Japanese tourists! It's popular in Japan because it's readily available and can be purchased at a reasonable price. Since that doesn't exist in the U.S. it's not as popular. The Japanese have just as much capability to pirate as the U.S. does.

For my personal situation, I do not own a TV. I do not own cable. I do not own a DVD drive. I have no use for these things; the internet accomplishes everything that TV and cable offer, but better, and a DVD drive doesn't do anything a flash drive or external hard drive can't do better. To me these things are like having a VCR or cassette recorder...relics from a previous generation of technology. I refuse to go back and buy technology from that era just because the VCR guys think it's their right to legislate their old tech into relevance.

The invention of the car certainly hurt the horse-and-buggy industry, so should we have created a bunch of laws that restricted cars to only pulling buggies, or not going faster than a horse so it wouldn't give the car an unfair advantage? Of course not, but that's exactly what's happening with the modern entertainment industry. They're out of date and unnecessary, and they've been spending all that money that could have gone to creating consumer-friendly content and services into lobbying and suing their fans.

Respect isn't a right. It's something you earn, and you can only earn it by giving it. I wouldn't buy a desk from IKEA that only let me put it on the second floor. What if I live on a one story house? Should I just suck it up and not buy the desk, because otherwise I'm disrespecting the creator's wishes? Who do these people think they are that they get to determine the conditions in which I get to use their product that I've bought?

The only way to solve the piracy problem is to offer potential customers the service they want, not the service you want to give them. If you won't offer it, someone will, and the only thing preventing this from happening is the tons of money that went into legislating a business model where you can create something and then get paid for it forever. Must be nice; when a baker makes something, they have to keep making more of it if they want to keep getting paid, and an officer worker needs to keep working in the office. They don't get to create stuff and then have that stuff continue to pay them for the rest of their lives plus 70 years.

I'll have respect for creators when they have to follow the rules the rest of us do, and not the imaginary rules that they've set and expect everyone else to follow because they've paid a lot of money to get it. The irony is that all that money, the Hollywood and anime money, is based off of early piracy when Hollywood ignored Edison's patents and anime stole Disney's art style.

Until then, I'll continue supporting sites like Cruncyroll that are at least attempting to bring the media I love into a service I'm willing to pay for. But I'm certainly not going to shed a tear for the industry that is forcing CR to release a substandard product.
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Posted 5/17/13
Now, when you use the word, " Download " do you mean when a small pop up says " Do you want to run it or save it? and you put " Save " and it asks for a folder?

And is streaming when you go to a anime site and click on a title of an anime to watch and then select the episode, the click, go to the page, then click on the screen a couple of times then click the play button and watch, is that streaming?

And I can hardly believe that CR is the only authorize streaming site on the planet.
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Posted 5/17/13
Um, that's pretty much what download means. I want to have a local copy that will play without DRM; in other words, I can convert it to play on an XBOX, or my tablet, or my phone, and keep it stored on the local memory.

Streaming is when episodes are online only and cannot be viewed without an active internet connection. The advantage to streaming is quick access; most downloads require you to completely download the file, which can take several hours depending on connection and file size. The disadvantage is that you effectively redownloading the file every time you watch it, which can eat up data caps if you have them (especially an issue on mobile devices) and you cannot view them without an active internet connection. The other problem is that you don't "own" streaming video...for example, Netflix routinely removes movies from their servers. Once they decide to stop playing something, or go out of business, you lose access.

CR is not the only authorized streaming site on the planet...they're just one of the best, relatively speaking. Netflix and Hulu also offer anime, and a few others, but CR has the largest library I've found with the least shennanigans. Netflix is second best now that they've added some subtitles but most of their dubbed stuff is only available dubbed. I only watch anime in Japanese so I have to pick and choose my series if I'm going to use Netflix. Hulu usually has the option of subbed or dubbed but still has commercials even if you subscribe to Hulu plus. CR offers the best of both specifically for anime...you get the sub/dub option and fast release times of Hulu and the no commercials from Netflix.

The licensed vendors, such as Funimation and Aniplex, only offer their own material, which dramatically limits their libraries. They offer theoretically the best service...for example Funimation offers commercial free and uncut versions of their anime, plus DVD versions of dubs in advance if you want dubs...but still don't offer downloads and since they're restricted to only their own licensed anime it cuts down on the appeal. I've strongly considered the Funimation subscription but if I wanted to watch, for example, Gargantia, I'm out of luck. If they offered downloads I'd easily pay double the price of their current subscription cost ($8 per month).

There's plenty of legal options but they're all inferior to what the illegal options offer. The sad part is that they don't have to be superior...simply offer a legal service that's equivalent to what you can get from pirate sites and the vast majority of pirates would disappear overnight. Some would keep pirating, of course, but they're going to keep pirating anyway regardless of what you do. The focus should be on the customers who are considering buying your product but won't because you haven't offered them what they're willing to pay for or because they literally can't buy what they're getting for free. If your service is superior to pirates (Steam comes to mind, DRM notwithstanding, due to its excellent storefront and vast library) you'll make a ton of money.

In the end, spending real money on lobbying and legal action to prevent imaginary lost sales is insane and counter-productive. That money could much better be spent creating products that people are willing to buy. The difficulty is that we've set up this system where everyone is trying to force an analogy...the analogy that virtual data is the same as physical goods. The problem is that this analogy is extremely weak because ultimately computer data is not a physical object, no matter how much you make laws that pretend it is. That's why you get people calling piracy "theft" and "stealing" when no law or serious economic theory equates the two.

In the meantime, I'll keep on the lookout for someone willing to sell me what I want to buy. Until then they have nobody to blame for not getting paid except themselves.
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Posted 5/17/13

Gyava wrote:


a619ko wrote:


Gyava wrote:


Elektrawnik wrote:

Do you even torrent?


Not anymore, ISP caught me.


Dude, that sucks...You only got a warning right? Not a fine...
I suggest you stahp illegally downloading stuff, not much can be done if they do decide to come after you.

me, I'm always dl music/movies, I have about 250gb worth...


I know.. I downloaded lots of movies and games, they finally got me on Sherlock Holmes 1. and yeah, I got a warning. The fine scares the crap out of me, especially because of how high it can go up to ($250,000 + jailtime I think). Those were the glory days to be honest, I had the 'freedom' to download all these PC games and watch anything I really wanted.

but one day I turned on my computer and as soon as I turned on Firefox, it said something like:

Your internet privileges have been revoked. Call your ISP # at etc.etc.etc.
Next 5 minutes of my life were full of the words "Holy shit" being thought every 2 seconds in my brain..

Mom had to talk on the phone too so that they could have her and my voice as recordings to keep in case they catch me again and they use them as evidence to put me in jail + fine me.

One of the scariest events of my life, man. Never downloaded an illegal thing after.


Yeah basically if you torrent a whole bunch of time over a period of time then you end up getting caught. But if you torrent like one thing once in a blue moon, I guess they won't catch you. In other words, it's easier to trace a person who torrents a lot in a period of time than a person who doesn't do it so much.
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Posted 5/17/13
Here's an idea, maybe license the anime I want to watch in the region I live in so that I ACTUALLY CAN legally stream it, rather than being forced to "illegally" download it.

That's like saying "Oh, we won't give you water directly, but if you get it from the well down the road, that's illegal".
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