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What do you guys think about the anime that comes out these days?
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F / Sereitei
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Posted 5/22/13
I find myself strangely drawn to HENNEKO and Oreimo. Oreimo is pretty refreshing; it put an entirely new spin on the little sister genre. As much as I like both of these shows, not all of the anime this season has been all that great. There are plenty of anime that were fantastic in the "old days" and there were some that weren't. Same applies to today, lol. But there's no doubt; the animation quality and effects continue to improve. (:
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29 / M
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Posted 5/22/13
Doesn't really matter to me when it was made. I like some older anime like Trigun, Lupin, Ranma 1/2, or Great Teacher Onizuka(does that count as old yet?) I also like newer anime like Oreimo, The Devil is a Part Timer, YuruYuri and such. Whether its Gungrave or Aria or Psychopass(I watch some non comedy shows after all), its the story and animation that draw me into it. Or I can have the best of both worlds and just watch Detective Conan since I think I will die before that show ever ends.
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21 / M / Ohio
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Posted 5/22/13

RolexKid wrote:

I try to refrain from comparing and contrasting the two types, because "old" animes set the groundwork for "newer" animes to build upon.

now your idea of quality is ambiguous and I'll just interpret it as an overall summation; with that said, I would pick the "newer animes"

why? because of PLOT:


but that had plot

anyway i think both sets on that list had amazing anime so i don't really think one is better than the other
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24 / M / Middle of Nowhere...
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Posted 5/23/13
Its shit
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18 / F / library
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Posted 5/23/13 , edited 5/23/13
i miss 2D hand-drawn.


and now that i've seen the list from the original post seems like current popular anime focus more on society comments, or more drama and lack of real manly action? (save Jojo's Bizarre Adventure)

edit: feeling like anime is going more female-oriented now (comparing how many harem titles there are in 2000s to now)
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25 / M / Sydney, Australia
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Posted 5/23/13
I consider Death Note and Spirited Away as masterpieces. Those two titles will stand the test of time and still affect me emotionally when I rewatch them.

The newer animes, there are a couple of gems that I've discovered, like Flowers of Evil or Btooom. But 80% of the titles are trash.

But that doesn't mean there aren't any trash anime back in the days, Yugioh and Dragonball are trash.
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25 / M / USA
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Posted 5/23/13 , edited 5/23/13
I've been keeping this topic in mind lately, and it also came up in a PodTaku episode I recently listened to. (I was marathoning them, so I don't remember which one it was; sorry). But I think I've formed two impressions.

The first is a more realist approach, and the second is just my brain gnawing at the issue.

So let's get busy, shall we.



1st Part: Economics

There's always a tradeoff between being successful creatively and being successful financially. In 2011-12 cited costs to produce an average anime episode ran from $150,000 to $300,000; $6,000 to $12,000 per minute.

Those numbers were also based on old statistics (even then), and they definitely aren't going down. Coupled with the tsunami in 2011 which caused a broadcasting tape shortage, and hiked production costs (source).

Some studios took the opportunity to go digital, which was itself a hugely expensive endeavor. Basically anime isn't cheap, and the cost of making a "masterpiece" exponentially increases those costs on all fronts.



Japan does have a strength in this area, which is rental pricing: their anime is priced so highly because they don't expect individuals to buy them - at its core anime is disposable media for television or infrequent viewing.

Anime is priced for rental distributors (such as our Blockbuster and Netflix) to acquire, and then consumers are expected to rent the anime once or twice. This means fewer (and more guaranteed) sales are required.

But it also means the pressure isn't on creating something amazing that will be bought by individuals, but on creating something that will sell to rental distributors. And I imagine Ikki Tousen gets rented more than Cowboy Bebop.



Making something great is risky, because if it bombs it bombs hard and could easily take out the studio that made it in the explosion. While making something more congenial with the right fanservice is safer, and cheaper.

That said…

There are still studios that try (very consistently) to be original. That's what I like so much about anime, there's always something new going on. They just have to hedge their bets or they're out of jobs.

This year we've already been given Attack on Titan (which, having read the manga, has awesome potential) and Gargantia of the Verdurous Planet. Last year we had a plethora of titles that were notable.

Not perfect, sure, but noteworthy. And worth examining closely.



I'd list Black Rock Shooter (4/10), Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! (7/10), Fate/Zero 2 (9/10), Hyouka (8/10), K (6/10, +2 for the art), Kokoro Connect (8/10), Neko/Nisemonogatari (7/10), and Psycho-Pass (10/10, -1 for bias).

None were perfect homeruns (although Fate/Zero came close), but they're still trying. And I don't believe the ratio of "great" shows is much different today. Just that there's more hurdles in achieving them.

If anything I think the overall quality of anime has been trending upwards, although fanservice has been as well. But fanservice is bet hedging; when a studio is supremely confident, they can do without it.

This means the current situation reflects market uncertainty, which is understandable.



Now to look at some other years.

In 2011 we had: [C] (7/10, +2 for uniqueness), Fate/Zero 1 (9/10), Kamisama no Memo-chou (9/10, -2 for personal bias), Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica (10/10), Steins;Gate (haven't seen), and Yumekui Merry (7/10, +1 for uniqueness).

In 2010 we had: Angel Beats! (7/10) and Durarara!! (8/10). This year is indefensible, but also seems to be the peak of fanservice with Yosuga no Sora, Seikon no Qwaser, Motto To LOVE-Ru, Ladies versus Butlers!, etc.

Now you guys pointed quite a bit to the years 2007, 2008, and 2009, so lets look at those.



2009: Aoi Bungaku (haven't seen), Birdy Decode (haven't seen), Darker than Black (haven't seen), Higashi no Eden (9/10, -1 for personal bias), Requiem for the Phantom (haven't seen), and Rideback (haven't seen)

2008: Blade of the Immortal (6/10), Blassreiter (haven't seen), Code Geass R2 (2/10, +4 for personal bias), Ga-Rei: Zero (5/10), Mnemosyne (haven't seen), and Spice and Wolf (haven't seen).

2007: Afro Samurai (8/10, ±2 for personal bias), Baccano! (haven't seen but it supposedly impressive), Denou Coil (7/10, +1 for uniqueness), Shingurui (8/10), and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (10/10, -1 for personal bias).



Summary of notable titles by year:

2012: 7 (not counting Fate/Zero).
2011: 6 (counting Fate/Zero).
2010: 2 (awful).
2009: 6 (average).
2008: 6 (average).
2007: 5 (average).

Now, THERE IS A STRONG CHANCE YOU DISAGREE WITH MY COUNT.

Which is where the next part comes in.



2nd Part: Perspective

I don't value anime in the same way as anyone else. We're all unique snowflakes: an anime I think is awesome someone else will think is shit. I tried to be inclusive in my lists, but that will never work perfectly.

The usual approach is to fight over it, but I think of it as a problem of comparing conflicting dimensions. Which should make immediate sense to anyone who's read Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions.

To condense the novel immeasurably, imagine you exist in a 2D plane: if you saw a sphere, you'd just "see" a shrinking or growing circle where the sphere touches your 2D plane. You'll never see the sphere, because it's 3D.



Basically, if you're looking at an n-dimensional object in an n-1 dimension, it will change depending on which angle you're looking at it from. And we all look at anime (our n-dimensional object) from different directions.

So when I look at an anime, I'll see something different than what someone else sees. So there are people out there who'd give Black Rock Shooter a 10/10, and Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica a 0/10. It will happen.

So when we think of a "masterpiece" we think of what we personally consider to be a 10/10 ("AAA") anime. And when a bunch of people agree, it gets revered as such. But that final push into "masterpiece" territory is subjective.



It has to be, Mashyu. There is literally no way you can objectively call a piece of art flawless and have it hold true for everyone, which is what sets art apart from science (although there are fun similarities... but that's another topic).

This is why I tried to list "noteworthy" titles instead of "masterpieces" since which noteworthy titles actually are masterpieces will be subjective. So by widening the sample size, the result should be more reliable.



My Hypothesis:

I believe that in any given year, you will find (on average), 6 truly noteworthy anime titles (from television; movies are a separate beast I'm not equipped to hunt). From those, we draw our masterpieces.

This is with a standard deviation of 1.4; alternatively it'd be 5.3 titles with a standard deviation of 3.9 if you count the year 2010, but that was such a crazy outlier I arbitrarily excluded it; you can choose either one.



By this measure:

4.6 to 7.4 noteworthy titles per year is average (so 5 to 7).
7.4 to 8.8 noteworthy titles is high (7 to 9).
More than that in a single year is extraordinary (9 or more).

This would only work for me personally, but I should be able to apply it to any given year.

So, 2005: Elfen Lied (8/10, -1 for personal bias), Gantz (haven't seen), Koi Kaze (haven't seen), Paranoia Agent (haven't seen), Rozen Maiden (7/10), and Tenjou Tenge (4/10). This makes 2005 a personally average year.

I should be able to apply this to any given year without significant deviation (assuming I've seen enough anime from that year). So... yeah. At least personally, I don't see much of a difference that isn't explained by the economy.



If someone would like to pitch a year to me they think breaks my hypothesis (with a list of titles, since the farther back I go the less familiar with them I am), I'll look into it. But I think you're all just selectively biased.

Although it's possible for a crazy good year to exist, just like a crazy bad one (Jesus 2010, what happened).

In Conclusion:

I'll be surprised if anyone reads all that.



Thanks to [C] Money of Soul and Possibility for the illustrations. Hopefully they helped break up all the text.
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M / Texas
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Posted 5/23/13
Feels like females are being overly sexualized. If she shows off her feminine charm every now and then, that's fine...but some of the fanservice is gratuitous. Perfect example is Shuffle! The story was good enough to keep me involved so the fanservice was unnecessary. If anything, it's the reason why I gave the series 3 1/2 stars and not 4 1/2.

Oreimo is another. While I understand that the humor is meant to be adult in nature, some of the tell tale fanservice bits are overkill. Rosario Vampire is yet another. Decent story...too many panty shots.

(waits for the one guy who responds by saying "You can never have too many panty shots!")
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Posted 5/23/13
i'll do you a favor and be the first one support that last statement
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M / Fort Bragg, NC
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Posted 5/23/13

Mayo2111 wrote:

Feels like females are being overly sexualized. If she shows off her feminine charm every now and then, that's fine...but some of the fanservice is gratuitous. Perfect example is Shuffle! The story was good enough to keep me involved so the fanservice was unnecessary. If anything, it's the reason why I gave the series 3 1/2 stars and not 4 1/2.

Oreimo is another. While I understand that the humor is meant to be adult in nature, some of the tell tale fanservice bits are overkill. Rosario Vampire is yet another. Decent story...too many panty shots.

(waits for the one guy who responds by saying "You can never have too many panty shots!")


Yeah, I completely agree.
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21 / M / Free World Jail
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Posted 5/23/13

Mayo2111 wrote:

Feels like females are being overly sexualized. If she shows off her feminine charm every now and then, that's fine...but some of the fanservice is gratuitous. Perfect example is Shuffle! The story was good enough to keep me involved so the fanservice was unnecessary. If anything, it's the reason why I gave the series 3 1/2 stars and not 4 1/2.

Oreimo is another. While I understand that the humor is meant to be adult in nature, some of the tell tale fanservice bits are overkill. Rosario Vampire is yet another. Decent story...too many panty shots.

(waits for the one guy who responds by saying "You can never have too many panty shots!")


You can never have too...oh nevermind.
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M
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Posted 5/23/13
I think they're great
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20 / M / The Moon
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Posted 5/23/13
Its simple Evolution

One Punch Mod
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F / Boston-ish
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Posted 11/23/13

To keep the Forums tidy, closing threads that have been inactive for six months or more.

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