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why do people always have katanas?
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 5/23/13
Modern $50 katana from walmart?

You might get run over by a mac truck if your legs are broken or you are tied to a stake
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Posted 5/23/13 , edited 5/23/13

swirly_commode wrote:

Modern $50 katana from walmart?

You might get run over by a mac truck if your legs are broken or you are tied to a stake


$300-$700 production katana specially heat treated and made with 5260 spring, T-10, 1090 high carbon, or 1060 high carbon. They're monosteel blades unlike traditional nihonto, but the material is very pure so traditional processes aren't necessary, reducing the labor costs. You should really buy one. VERY fun stuff dude.
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Posted 5/23/13 , edited 5/23/13

Oldthrashbar wrote:


Muadieb wrote:

The sword types were made for such different purposes you cant compare them without including what they were designed to do.

Katana is a draw cut weapon. When you struck your opponent you drew the weapon across their body cutting deeply into them. A Katana was the best weapon for what the Asian area of the world was wearing for armor. Bone, Leather, and Iron plates was good armor but at a level the Katana could handle fighting.

Western swords were design to cleave or crush, not chop or slice like many people think. The western swords were actually designed to do damage through steel armor and chainmail, as well as crush through the armor causing incredible damage. Asian armor would be destroyed by western blades.

I am well trained in western blades and love them. remember a real 1 hand western blade is only 3-5lbs at most.

ok im done have fun, katanas are more popular because of movies/games/anime portraying them as a mystical and super powerful blade, whereas there is little done for the western blades nowadays.


Yeah. Basically what I'm saying but you did a better job at it. Western sword would shatter a Japanese Katana unless the wielder was more skilled and knew better than to let that happen. But in the end the guy wielding the Japanese Katana would likely be up against an opponent armored far batter than him. And larger than him. (Don't let movies and sheep fool you. Size DOES matter.) And end up with his skull caved in.

Glad there's someone who isn't all "Japan omg so superior" here. :P


Metal armor went out of fashion in Europe and the Americas in the 1500-1600's, remember? The swords also became more suited to slashing unarmored opponents, as well. Our own light and heavy cavalry sabers would be broken by our older designs. What about pirates? Throughout history, it was almost unheard of for them to have worthwhile armor at all, and they often got their hands on inferior blades. I distinctively recall reading about them fairing very well against technically better armored and armed, and larger opponents.
Am I saying that Japanese swords and warriors are superior? No. I'm not one of the sort who usually wholeheartedly favors a single side. There are alot of factors that I take into account, so I cannot understand how anybody can claim to know exactly how a battle would turn out.
Honestly, you're coming off as heavily biased as the people you complain about.
Posted 5/23/13

Morbidhanson wrote:

Axes are fun. When it comes to sheer cleaving ability, it is unequaled. I don't know about how agile they are, though. I know Danish war axes were thin and sharp and fast but I don't own many axes. Not ones intended for battle, anyway.


Axes are great multitaskers. Not only can you fight with one (easier if you hold the axe handle fairly close to the shoulder), you can use it to make other tools, cut wood, etc.

I guess that is also why the machete is so popular in jungle environs, because it's practical, like a knife married with an axe; it both slices and chops well.

Posted 5/23/13
Aesthetics.
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 5/23/13
Theres your problem.
Tou gotta spend about ten times to get a blade that wont shatter.

The heat treating on those blades is for looks only.
Layered steel or sanmai is far superior to you spring steel blades.
Youre trying to compare stage pieces to actual combat blades.
A practice blade is not a real weapon.
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Posted 5/23/13 , edited 5/23/13

swirly_commode wrote:

Theres your problem.
Tou gotta spend about ten times to get a blade that wont shatter.

The heat treating on those blades is for looks only.
Layered steel or sanmai is far superior to you spring steel blades.
Youre trying to compare stage pieces to actual combat blades.
A practice blade is not a real weapon.


Spring steel is what truck suspensions are made of. When hardened correctly with the right heat treatment, these are almost legendary in toughness as well as sharp, much stronger than any historical blade. I hope you know layering/hammering steel is only done to make the carbon content more homogenous. Heat treatment is done for strength, not looks. You have it flipped. Hammering and folding for a visible hada and differentially hardening for a visible hamon are done for aesthetics (nowadays). With the precision of modern heat treatment and the purity and availability of all kinds of modern steels, traditional forging has become obsolete. This is because folding the steel and making it traditionally is more likely to leave weak spots in the blade than just beginning with a pure billet of steel with a very evenly-distributed carbon content.

Layering steel or using the sanmai method will only improve the blade if done correctly (ie, very tough metal jacket with a very hard core), but even this can be done in modern production katana. Simply using a sanmai method doesn't necessitate forging in a completely traditional way, nor does it make a blade 'far superior'...it merely hikes up the labor costs, which may or may not be worth it if you are looking solely for cutting performance.

In short, a well heat-treated and modern blade is ugly (no real hamon/uglier hamon, very little activity on the surface, if any, factory-made fittings) but more functional than a traditional nihonto due to great advances in metallurgy.

The good news? You can get a katana that is more reliable, sharper, and tougher than a traditional nihonto for a tiny fraction of what it should cost based on performance level alone. The bad news? The blades are ugly and plain from a collector's POV unless you acid-etch a hamon masterfully and customize fittings.
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Posted 5/23/13
There is no one superior style or weapon.
Katanas were excelent at what they were designed for.
Individual skill and familiarity with ones equipment is whst detrrmains who wins.
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Posted 5/23/13 , edited 5/23/13

WackyFiasco wrote:

I have an axe. Does that mean I am not keeping up with the Joneses?


If you have a proper waraxe, I think it means the Joneses aren't keeping up with you.


Morbidhanson wrote:
I'm assuming you're still in the '1 vs 1' situation. A lone guy with a katana is going to have a hell of a time cutting the legs off a horse. I've seen MODERN KATANA break against thick bones. You can probably injure a horse with a katana, but there's still the problem of the guy wearing plate armor and carrying a shield coming at you. Like I said, curved thin blades were not designed for superheavy targets like horse bones and steel plate armor.


And besides, this is assuming that the horse's armored skirt isn't present and that the rider doesn't turn the horse to avoid the strike while making a strike of his own.

The most sensible way of dealing with it, short of having another mounted knight, is to use long, hooked pikes and have several men drag the beast down.
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Posted 5/23/13
Look up sanmai steel.
Edumacate yourself
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Posted 5/23/13 , edited 5/23/13

swirly_commode wrote:

Look up sanmai steel.
Edumacate yourself


Sanmai is not a steel type. It is a lamination method. Of which there are many.
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Posted 5/23/13
Exactly.
Its what keeps a $5000 katana from shattering when it hots bone or a $700 immitation.
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Posted 5/23/13 , edited 5/23/13

swirly_commode wrote:

Exactly.
Its what keeps a $5000 katana from shattering when it hots bone or a $700 immitation.


The thing is you don't need to pay 5 grand to get a sanmai-laminated katana. Only a few hundred more than a monosteel katana. And lamination only improves overall performance for swords marginally. In fact, it is usually only done to increase the edge retention and improve sharpness a bit. With the sanmai method, you're basically taking a piece of more brittle metal and sandwiching it between two softer and tougher pieces of metal. You do this to prevent the hard metal in the center from breaking. A solid modern billet of that tough metal is still going to produce a stronger sword while not sacrificing edge retention very much. Proper heat treatment and quality metal are more important. Lamination must be done with these other two things correctly to improve a sword's performance. Not to mention balance, blade geometry, degree of sharpening, proper form during a swing.

And even then, you're better off looking for other weapons with which to take on an armored horse and an armored knight. Wrong tool. Do you cut down trees with a hammer? Doesn't matter if the hammer is made of steel or titanium or a combo of both..
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17 / F / Basketball Court
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Posted 5/23/13
Because it's badass
Posted 5/23/13
^What she said
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