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Post Reply Extraterrestrial life!!!
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Posted 5/29/13


Just curious as to what people believe and think about this subject. Do you believe that there are other beings out there that just don't know about us, or maybe were just not worth their time. Who says they didn't come to earth 245 million years ago when dinosaurs roamed these lands and though 'nope we can't help these useless overgrown lizards' and flew away. Or maybe they observe us from a distance waiting and watching our golden age hit its peaks.

Any absurd theory's about anything are welcome in this thread.
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If they're smart for space travel, they're smart enough to stay away from this planet.
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Posted 5/29/13

SirFinland wrote:

If they're smart for space travel, they're smart enough to stay away from this planet.


Yes that's true enough.
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I'm just going to disregard all those brainiac astrobiologists saying that there is probability of life somewhere in the universe because of the millions and billions of stars and star systems therefore enabling at least several simultaneous genesis of living things.

I have a belief that the probability of life existing outside of the Solar System is much much closer to nil; I say this because even though there are billions and billions of planets, not many can actually come close to having the perfect habitable zone that Earth has. I mean, even if Earth was just a teeny tiny bit closer or further away from the Sun, life could not have even started much less flourished.

In addition, what about the requirement for abiogenesis to actually occur? What if the probability of that happening is incredibly low? And what are the chances that a stimulant would appear at the time right time at the formation of a primordial "soup"?

All these requirements make me think about how hard it is for life to actually occur. (I hope nobody thinks I believe in god or anything like that or think that life on Earth is special) I just think it might be due to incredible luck, really.

In response to your idea about aliens visiting the planet Earth. I doubt that will ever happen, because if life were to exist outside of the Solar System, it is highly unlikely that they will be consist of the same elemental bases that life on Earth contain, which is Carbon, and also the atmospheric gases on Earth could be lethal to those extraterrestrial life and the difference in pressure and gravity.
It would be foolish for any extraterrestrial life to come straight into the Earth's atmosphere without at least studying the components, the atmospheric pressure and the gravity of this planet. And if they were able to make it this far, I doubt they would be able to hide their spaceship.



P.S. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense. I get so used to talking to myself about the mysteries of the universe, I doubt they actually make any sense to someone else.


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I believe there are aliens out there, but I think they'll look similar to us. I know, it'd seem pretty rad if they had three eyes, or abnormal colored skin. But considering if they have all the means necessary in their planets atmosphere to contain life, they may look like us, or at least similar to us. Hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, etc. It'd be too odd if our planet was the only one in the galaxy, or the universe, if we're the only one's with life on our planet. I believe we have yet to discover it, and I have a feeling, because of how large space is, we probably won't be finding it for a long time. But perhaps they'll discover us, or have already discovered us, because of the amount of U.F.O.'s spotted around the world. They could be space ships from aliens, or just objects appearing to be. We'll never know.
Aryth 
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GayAsianBoy wrote:

I'm just going to disregard all those brainiac astrobiologists saying that there is probability of life somewhere in the universe because of the millions and billions of stars and star systems therefore enabling at least several simultaneous genesis of living things.

I have a belief that the probability of life existing outside of the Solar System is much much closer to nil; I say this because even though there are billions and billions of planets, not many can actually come close to having the perfect habitable zone that Earth has. I mean, even if Earth was just a teeny tiny bit closer or further away from the Sun, life could not have even started much less flourished.

In addition, what about the requirement for abiogenesis to actually occur? What if the probability of that happening is incredibly low? And what are the chances that a stimulant would appear at the time right time at the formation of a primordial "soup"?

All these requirements make me think about how hard it is for life to actually occur. (I hope nobody thinks I believe in god or anything like that or think that life on Earth is special) I just think it might be due to incredible luck, really.

In response to your idea about aliens visiting the planet Earth. I doubt that will ever happen, because if life were to exist outside of the Solar System, it is highly unlikely that they will be consist of the same elemental bases that life on Earth contain, which is Carbon, and also the atmospheric gases on Earth could be lethal to those extraterrestrial life and the difference in pressure and gravity.
It would be foolish for any extraterrestrial life to come straight into the Earth's atmosphere without at least studying the components, the atmospheric pressure and the gravity of this planet. And if they were able to make it this far, I doubt they would be able to hide their spaceship.



P.S. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense. I get so used to talking to myself about the mysteries of the universe, I doubt they actually make any sense to someone else.




Hmm... You disregard the science of investigating life outside the solar system and then attempt to use probability and... well... SCIENCE... to make a conclusion. The problem with disregarding astrobiology is that you then disregard any logical method of discerning the probability of life outside of the solar system.

You say that the Earth is in JUST the right place for habitation, but if Earth is capable then why does that indicate that it is unlikely that there are any other planets that can do just that. Different star sizes/planet sizes and the sheer amount of systems makes this more likely than you are leading us to believe.

The probability for abiogenesis on Earth was incredibly low, yet it happened anyway. Again, why does this mean that it wouldn't happen anywhere else? Given the time the universe has been in existence, most every planet that exists currently has had plenty of chances for abiogenesis. We don't even know if Earth was first, second, last, etc.

Without enough information we cannot use Earth as a diagnostic tool for other planets. They are all independent, closed systems and it stands to reason that the chances in one has no effect on the chances in any other.

Your idea about life and what it would contain is shaky, at best. That would depend on the environment of the planet they were living on, and how adaptable they would have to be. However, there are common threads throughout the universe. The chances of actual life-forms not having something in common with us is exceedingly low. Then again, there are plenty of possibilities, but only a small number of stable life-supporting elements in the periodic table (It's not a very exotic table). I agree with you about the composition, gravity, and detection problems. The only reason any of these would be false would be because they evolved quicker or over a longer period of time than us.

The fact that we have had zero confirmed extra terrestrial life visits tells me that, if life exists elsewhere, they are either not interested in or not able to travel to our humble planet.
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Posted 5/29/13
The Drake equation is:

N = R* x fp x ne x fe x fi x fc x L

where:
N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible (i.e. which are on our current past light cone);
and
R* = the average number of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations)
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space[8]

You do the math.
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Posted 5/29/13

GayAsianBoy wrote:

I'm just going to disregard all those brainiac astrobiologists saying that there is probability of life somewhere in the universe because of the millions and billions of stars and star systems therefore enabling at least several simultaneous genesis of living things.

I have a belief that the probability of life existing outside of the Solar System is much much closer to nil; I say this because even though there are billions and billions of planets, not many can actually come close to having the perfect habitable zone that Earth has. I mean, even if Earth was just a teeny tiny bit closer or further away from the Sun, life could not have even started much less flourished.

In addition, what about the requirement for abiogenesis to actually occur? What if the probability of that happening is incredibly low? And what are the chances that a stimulant would appear at the time right time at the formation of a primordial "soup"?

All these requirements make me think about how hard it is for life to actually occur. (I hope nobody thinks I believe in god or anything like that or think that life on Earth is special) I just think it might be due to incredible luck, really.

In response to your idea about aliens visiting the planet Earth. I doubt that will ever happen, because if life were to exist outside of the Solar System, it is highly unlikely that they will be consist of the same elemental bases that life on Earth contain, which is Carbon, and also the atmospheric gases on Earth could be lethal to those extraterrestrial life and the difference in pressure and gravity.
It would be foolish for any extraterrestrial life to come straight into the Earth's atmosphere without at least studying the components, the atmospheric pressure and the gravity of this planet. And if they were able to make it this far, I doubt they would be able to hide their spaceship.



P.S. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense. I get so used to talking to myself about the mysteries of the universe, I doubt they actually make any sense to someone else.




No your making sense and I half agree with you. I agree that if there are lifeforms out there they wouldn't resemble us whatsoever ever, and the chances of them coming to earth a nil. I just don't think that could happen. But who says its not out there. Yeah I know if we were that tinny bit closer or that tinny bit further that we wouldn't exist. But we do, so I doubt that we are the only ones because its happen once and can happen again.
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Posted 5/29/13 , edited 5/29/13

Aryth wrote:


Hmm... You disregard the science of investigating life outside the solar system and then attempt to use probability and... well... SCIENCE... to make a conclusion. The problem with disregarding astrobiology is that you then disregard any logical method of discerning the probability of life outside of the solar system.

You say that the Earth is in JUST the right place for habitation, but if Earth is capable then why does that indicate that it is unlikely that there are any other planets that can do just that. Different star sizes/planet sizes and the sheer amount of systems makes this more likely than you are leading us to believe.

The probability for abiogenesis on Earth was incredibly low, yet it happened anyway. Again, why does this mean that it wouldn't happen anywhere else? Given the time the universe has been in existence, most every planet that exists currently has had plenty of chances for abiogenesis. We don't even know if Earth was first, second, last, etc.

Without enough information we cannot use Earth as a diagnostic tool for other planets. They are all independent, closed systems and it stands to reason that the chances in one has no effect on the chances in any other.

Your idea about life and what it would contain is shaky, at best. That would depend on the environment of the planet they were living on, and how adaptable they would have to be. However, there are common threads throughout the universe.
The chances of actual life-forms not having something in common with us is exceedingly low. Then again, there are plenty of possibilities, but only a small number of stable life-supporting elements in the periodic table (It's not a very exotic table). I agree with you about the composition, gravity, and detection problems. The only reason any of these would be false would be because they evolved quicker or over a longer period of time than us.

The fact that we have had zero confirmed extra terrestrial life visits tells me that, if life exists elsewhere, they are either not interested in or not able to travel to our humble planet.


Your claim is flawed on one point; I wasn't making a scientific conclusion. My statement was a belief based on my own observation of the data in the Solar System.
And at this point, extraterrestrial life is still merely a hypothesis, there is no actual method to replicate this hypothesis to enable it to have any substantial value.

I alluded to the disregarding of other scientists' probability estimates because I believe that the numbers of planets are not a factor when it comes to the existence of life, for me it's about having the right material/ingredients and the right conditions. And again, this is merely my own guess, it's not to be taken as some scientific theory. And at this stage, my guess is just as good as any other scientists' guess for all I know, we are all hypothesising without any concrete method to back it up.


The reason why I said that was because I was implying about the other planets in the Solar System; they're completely void of life, I'm not only referring to data observed on Earth. If abiogenesis can happen to any planet, then why not on Mars? (Of course, if NASA discovered microbial DNA on Mars, then everything I said in this thread is complete rubbish, but until that time comes, I still believe my guesses have some credibility)
And that is why I also said that a planet needs the "perfect" habitable zone and Earth is the prime example.


For this point, I'm not sure if my science is shaky or your understanding of different kinds of respiration of organisms is shaky. You do realise that not every living thing respire oxygen, right? For example, plants respire Carbon Dioxide, some microorganisms respire sulphur while others are vulnerable to oxygen (also known as anaerobic microorganisms)?

This is what I meant by life outside of Earth/Solar system having a different function to life on Earth. For all we know, they could be vulnerable to a lot of elements/molecules found on Earth.

I've read somewhere in New Scientists, it is unlikely (if life were to exist outside of the planet) to be a Carbon-based lifeform; there is a belief that other lifeforms could be silicone based. This is not even my idea, it was from other scientists' ideas.




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Posted 5/29/13

Flyingwren wrote:


Gettnlag wrote:

The Drake equation is:

N = R* x fp x ne x fe x fi x fc x L

where:
N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible (i.e. which are on our current past light cone);
and
R* = the average number of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations)
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space[8]

You do the math.


Yes it's very low but it's happen once so it's gotta of happened way more.


I wasn't arguing against it haha, with how massive the universe is I would say it would be nearly impossible that life could not exist elsewhere. Now if only they would find us so we could make an intergalactic peace organization that flies around space with men with straight bangs, pointy ears, and spiffy shirts. I must have a spiffy shirt.
sanj45 
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Posted 5/29/13 , edited 5/29/13

GayAsianBoy wrote:
I have a belief that the probability of life existing outside of the Solar System is much much closer to nil; I say this because even though there are billions and billions of planets, not many can actually come close to having the perfect habitable zone that Earth has. I mean, even if Earth was just a teeny tiny bit closer or further away from the Sun, life could not have even started much less flourished.

In addition, what about the requirement for abiogenesis to actually occur? What if the probability of that happening is incredibly low? And what are the chances that a stimulant would appear at the time right time at the formation of a primordial "soup"?

All these requirements make me think about how hard it is for life to actually occur. (I hope nobody thinks I believe in god or anything like that or think that life on Earth is special) I just think it might be due to incredible luck, really.


You're right, the probability of the conditions that enable life to arise are extremely low. But I think you're underestimating how friggin' huge the Universe is. There may be well over 500 billion galaxies in our Universe (number from the most recent super-computer simulation), and galaxies on average have about 100 billion to 1 trillion stars each. Even if the percentage of finding a planet just like Earth around a star was 0.0000000000001%, that's still between 5 billion to 50 billion Earth planets.
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Posted 5/29/13 , edited 5/29/13

sanj45 wrote:


GayAsianBoy wrote:
I have a belief that the probability of life existing outside of the Solar System is much much closer to nil; I say this because even though there are billions and billions of planets, not many can actually come close to having the perfect habitable zone that Earth has. I mean, even if Earth was just a teeny tiny bit closer or further away from the Sun, life could not have even started much less flourished.

In addition, what about the requirement for abiogenesis to actually occur? What if the probability of that happening is incredibly low? And what are the chances that a stimulant would appear at the time right time at the formation of a primordial "soup"?

All these requirements make me think about how hard it is for life to actually occur. (I hope nobody thinks I believe in god or anything like that or think that life on Earth is special) I just think it might be due to incredible luck, really.


You're right, the probability of the conditions that enable life to arise are extremely low. But I think you're underestimating how friggin' huge the Universe is. There may be well over 500 billion galaxies in our Universe (number from the most recent super-computer simulation), and galaxies on average have about 100 billion to 1 trillion stars each. Even if the percentage of finding a planet just like Earth around a star was 0.0000000000001%, that's still between 5 billion to 50 billion Earth planets.


I'm aware of how big the observable universe is... it's about 13.7 billion light years across. And the billions of galaxies.
But like I said, I still hold the belief that life requires the perfect everything. The perfect distance, material, condition and timing.
If all those billions planets are like Mars or Venus, there's nothing anything could do to make it biotic.


And if you think about it, even on Earth, how many times has the organisms on Earth come close to an all-extinction? During the extinction of the dinosaurs (from a massive meteor), 90% of genera/species were wiped along with the dinosaurs.
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Actually closeness to the sun has a lot less to do with it than the amount of sun rays that reaches the planet (or different areas on the planet like for example the poles vs equator) and its atmospheric makeup.

Some people believe Mars was similar to earth at one point in time due to research findings on mars.

You could sit here and argue all day as to whether or not life exists anywhere else in the universe but I'd like to just think in terms of it being an awfully big waste of space without more life.
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I believe that there is plenty of life out there. And I hope to be able to one day see some sort of contact with any extra terrestrial life form or sign of it.
Posted 5/29/13
On the off chance there is other life in the universe, it's even more unlikely that it has occurred repeatedly within our own galaxy. I doubt humans will ever expand beyond our own galaxy, so even if we did discover that live exists outside of it, it would really mean nothing more to us than "Oh cool, it happened twice."
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