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Post Reply NSA Spying
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55 / M / Covina, California
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Posted 6/25/13
So that must be why I keep getting Skype messages saying what is not true about my computer from skype, Frankly, I could care less if the National Security Agency is spying on me, I have absolutely nothing to hide!
Derid 
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Posted 6/25/13

That "I have nothing to hide so it doesnt matter" is the most destructive and irresponsible position a person can take.

Here is a good writeup on the issue:
http://www.thepolemicist.net/2013/06/no-matter-what-law-actually-says.html#more


When you say that you’re ok with giving up the Fourth Amendment, you are not only foregoing your right and ability to ever dissent from authority, you are abandoning the right of each and every other person and organization everywhere of ever dissenting and organizing against anything that authority says forever. - See more at: http://www.thepolemicist.net/2013/06/no-matter-what-law-actually-says.html#more
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Posted 6/25/13

Derid wrote:


TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:

Like they give a fuck about what the average American is doing


Which has what relevance exactly?



Paranoia of the public.
Derid 
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Posted 6/25/13

TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:


Derid wrote:


TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:

Like they give a fuck about what the average American is doing


Which has what relevance exactly?



Paranoia of the public.


Well, the public has good reason to be afraid. There is not a single historical incidence of this kind of unaccountable internal security apparatus being constructed ending well for the populace it was supposedly built to "protect". Not one. Not ever.

Its pretty obvious to anyone who bothers to crack open books on history, or even follow the news on how other countries operate and ended up where they did.

I can honestly say I will never understand the mind state of people who will give up their rights, just because they dont feel like personally exercising them at the moment. I am however, extremely ashamed that some such choose to call themselves citizens of the United States.
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Posted 6/25/13

Derid wrote:


TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:


Derid wrote:


TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:

Like they give a fuck about what the average American is doing


Which has what relevance exactly?



Paranoia of the public.


Well, the public has good reason to be afraid. There is not a single historical incidence of this kind of unaccountable internal security apparatus being constructed ending well for the populace it was supposedly built to "protect". Not one. Not ever.

Its pretty obvious to anyone who bothers to crack open books on history, or even follow the news on how other countries operate and ended up where they did.

I can honestly say I will never understand the mind state of people who will give up their rights, just because they dont feel like personally exercising them at the moment. I am however, extremely ashamed that some such choose to call themselves citizens of the United States.


So what have you done about this issue? And how do you suggest that everyone go about it?
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34 / M / Small Wooded town...
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Posted 6/25/13

AcadGlade wrote:

So that must be why I keep getting Skype messages saying what is not true about my computer from skype, Frankly, I could care less if the National Security Agency is spying on me, I have absolutely nothing to hide!


If you rather be safe than free, then move to a Dictatorship where your told what to do, how to live, and what is best for you.

I rather take on the task of protecting my self in order to preserve my freedoms instead. Because I don't need someone looking over my shoulder 24-7. I like having choices, having the freedom to speak out against the power be wen they are lien, or doing wrongful things. I will not give that up just so some pussy Lily-livered loser can feel safer at night in his government made prison cell.

I am a freeman And will not give my rights away to anyone, I can do a better job protecting my self than the government could ever do.
Banned
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Posted 6/25/13

Derid wrote:


TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:


Derid wrote:


TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:

Like they give a fuck about what the average American is doing


Which has what relevance exactly?



Paranoia of the public.


Well, the public has good reason to be afraid. There is not a single historical incidence of this kind of unaccountable internal security apparatus being constructed ending well for the populace it was supposedly built to "protect". Not one. Not ever.

Its pretty obvious to anyone who bothers to crack open books on history, or even follow the news on how other countries operate and ended up where they did.

I can honestly say I will never understand the mind state of people who will give up their rights, just because they dont feel like personally exercising them at the moment. I am however, extremely ashamed that some such choose to call themselves citizens of the United States.


If you give up this one right, it goes down hill from there honestly. Also it feels like they're trying to contain is honestly. For anyone aiming to become reputable or sort of famous of course its a threat.

I guess the best thing to do to make sure your messages are totally private is to encrypt the shit out of them
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55 / M / Covina, California
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Posted 6/26/13

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


AcadGlade wrote:

So that must be why I keep getting Skype messages saying what is not true about my computer from skype, Frankly, I could care less if the National Security Agency is spying on me, I have absolutely nothing to hide!


If you rather be safe than free, then move to a Dictatorship where your told what to do, how to live, and what is best for you.

I rather take on the task of protecting my self in order to preserve my freedoms instead. Because I don't need someone looking over my shoulder 24-7. I like having choices, having the freedom to speak out against the power be wen they are lien, or doing wrongful things. I will not give that up just so some pussy Lily-livered loser can feel safer at night in his government made prison cell.

I am a freeman And will not give my rights away to anyone, I can do a better job protecting my self than the government could ever do.


You miss understand, I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and As such we obey the superior authorities placed over us in the matter of obeying the " Laws of the land. "

However, when the " Superior Authorities demand of us what goes beyond that, such as to demand we stop preaching, or worshipping Jehovah, or demand we comply by offering up praise to the government in a hand salute, or one that is verbal, then we politely, but firmly refuse.
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23 / M / Guess
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Posted 6/27/13

TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:


So what have you done about this issue? And how do you suggest that everyone go about it?


Not spy on everyone in the fucking world, get a fucking warrant, go through the fucking process.

Not only do they collect the 'metadata' of everyone, including American citizens, but now that they have stored it, if it gets hacked by the Chinese of the Russians, we are making their lives easier.
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Posted 6/27/13 , edited 6/27/13
I don't understand how anyone can actually be ok with NSA spying.

The idea that we could save some people with the NSA's work is FALSE.

EXAMPLE: Boston
The US even had information from Russia telling us to too watch them. NSA did nothing.


The real problem is this:
What is right and wrong? -This changes year after year.

What if after a few years of legislation, it is decided that talking about the NSA is treason. Just talking about it.
This would cause everyone in this thread defending and not defending the branch in question to get fined.

I ask you not to think about now, but think about the future! Don't look in so narrow a space as to what is going on; look at what can be caused by the actions of to day tomorrow.


AcadGlade wrote:

So that must be why I keep getting Skype messages saying what is not true about my computer from skype, Frankly, I could care less if the National Security Agency is spying on me, I have absolutely nothing to hide!


So you have nothing to hide NOW.

What if leather crafting becomes illegal for individuals, and you have to have a licence to do it, and you work for a large company. There have been plenty of situations where government has taken rights from people and made them illegal. Then you are doing something wrong.

For example: February 4, 1938 it became illegal for Jews to own businesses in Germany. The people were then stuck on a social welfare program to keep them dependent on to government.
You don't have to agree but please consider:
I think it's eerily similar to the coming situation with health care. You have to have otherwise you are taxed massively. This is going to crush most small businesses, and only large corporation and government related institutes will survive. This will get large amount of the populace on welfare type care.

TL;DR: NSA = VERY BAD and a terrible trend in the future.
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45 / M / Rochester, NY
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Posted 6/27/13

AcadGlade wrote:

So that must be why I keep getting Skype messages saying what is not true about my computer from skype, Frankly, I could care less if the National Security Agency is spying on me, I have absolutely nothing to hide!


This was a common theme in East Germany before the wall fell. Pure right-wing rhetoric.

Sadly, I do believe that you embrace this.

After all, according to YOU

Render unto Caesar that which is his

I prefer to be free in a free nation rather than a subservient peon in a fascist nation!
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55 / M / Covina, California
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Posted 6/29/13

eightcar wrote:


AcadGlade wrote:

So that must be why I keep getting Skype messages saying what is not true about my computer from skype, Frankly, I could care less if the National Security Agency is spying on me, I have absolutely nothing to hide!


This was a common theme in East Germany before the wall fell. Pure right-wing rhetoric.

Sadly, I do believe that you embrace this.
It is true, the help program on skype kept sending me messages on how my present security/ Anti-virus software was not doing it's job, which I find galling.
After all, according to YOU Render unto Caesar that which is his

I prefer to be free in a free nation rather than a subservient peon in a fascist nation!

But you are a subservient peon, just like me, don't tell me you break the law whenever YOU see fit, w/o an worry of prosecution, do you?


I just quit skype, not because of the charge of spying, but because the so-called help program kept bothering me with messages telling me m security/anti virus package wasn't doing it's job

You put words in my mouth, But yes, Give to Caesar, or the Superior Authorities what is rightfully theirs, I'll obey the laws of the land, even the unfair ones, such as paying taxes, obeying the traffic laws, even the bothersome ones, However if caesar should try to tell me not to preach as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I'll respectfully decline to obey, Just as many German Witnesses did before, during and after WWII, and continue to.

Y
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18 / M / Tórshavn
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Posted 7/2/13 , edited 7/2/13
Well I just have to Update this, this has gone way out of hand while I've been following it, but not updated it here -.-

The US says spying via hacking and such is an act of war, they claim that China has been doing this for years, but this, I think, is just them trying to protect what they are doing, they are the ones spying, not only on their citizens, on their allies as well, some of which are, Germany & France.
Germany & France have said that they are Granting Edward Snowden asylum, even though this violates their alliance agreement with the US, but what the US has done against them, that is fair. Snowden is the NSA agent that leaked all of this info out.
This might actually cause a war, not saying that it will 100%, but there are way too many questions being directed at the US and they are trying to neglect everything and go on a manhunt after Snowden.


Sources:

Spying on Allies

Germany charges US and UK for spying
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-prepares-to-charge-uk-and-us-intelligence-over-fresh-bugging-allegations-8680249.html

(Is in German) Leader of Germany says that US does what they accuse the Chinese of doing.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/spaehaffaere-trittin-fordert-schutz-fuer-snowden-von-deutschland-a-908698.html

Us government declares hacking an act of war, then hacks allies
http://washingtonexaminer.com/us-government-declares-hacking-an-act-of-war-then-hacks-allies/article/2532594

The French call for an united EU response against recent US spying
http://www.thelocal.fr/20130702/hollande-calls-for-eu-united-front-on-spying

EU orders a global sweep of diplomatic missions after US spying reports
http://rt.com/news/eu--diplomatic-security-sweep-490/

Revelations that the US has spied extensively on the EU and European countries have infuriated leaders in Brussels and Berlin -- and could endanger the trans-Atlantic free-trade agreement. Important American voices are demanding that Obama come clean.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/trans-atlantic-relations-threatened-by-revelations-of-mass-us-spying-a-908746.html

Outrage in Europe Grows Over Spying Disclosures - French suggest Delaying Trade Talks
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/world/europe/france-and-germany-piqued-over-spying-scandal.html?ref=world&_r=0

Germany summons US ambassador over 'Cold War' spying leaks
http://rt.com/news/germany-summons-us-ambassador-leaks-476/



Edward Snowden

(It's in German) German government considers asylum for Edward Snowden
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/so-koennte-nsa-enthueller-snowden-nach-deutschland-kommen-a-908963.html

French grants asylum for Snowden
http://www.thelocal.fr/20130701/calls-grow-for-france-to-grant-snowden-asylum

Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow.
http://wikileaks.org/Statement-from-Edward-Snowden-in.html?snow

Some countries reject his asylum (Mainly because everybody is afraid of US, cause they are terribly powerful)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j_xUcVPWE_-TCaS8UFxcr_JZOQwA?docId=CNG.44ef79e756fb08f20a059d00e1b0f826.01

Some responds from countries that Edward Snowden asked for asylum
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/edward-snowden-nsa-asylum-application-list-countries

Equador tries to say that they helped Snowden by mistake (probably because they are afraid of US)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/ecuador-rafael-correa-snowden-mistake

Russia doesn't want a war to happen either so they say basically "Snowden Shut up, or you can't stay in my country"
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/07/01/197577592/ecuador-backs-off-nsa-leaker-snowden-citing-asylum-rules
Relevant
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23135734

More asylum requests
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/article/French-president-demands-any-US-spying-cease-now-4639865.php
Relevant
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-edward-snowden-asylum-15-countries-20130701,0,1183893.story

India turns down Snowden's asylum request
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-turns-down-Edward-Snowdens-asylum-request/articleshow/20875875.cms

Snowden needs worlds protection, says Venezuelan leader
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/02/us-usa-security-snowden-idUSBRE96107520130702

Edward Snowden applies for asylum in Ireland
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0702/460034-edward-snowden/

Europe is the place to get asylum, suggested the German leader
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/8864852/Snowden-should-get-safe-haven-in-Europe

(Is in Norwegian)Norway is refusing Snowdon due to him not beeing "at the Norwegian border" while applying for asylum. No rule in our law exists.
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/Derfor-far-ikke-Snowden-asyl-i-Norge-7245823.html#xtor=RSS-3?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Snowden Seeks Asylum In 20-Plus Nations, Gives Up On Russia
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/07/02/197919821/snowden-seeks-asylum-in-20-nations-gives-up-on-russia?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130701




In other sorta related news

New Zealand wants their own spying to get started, this all happened while Kim Dotcom(owner of Megaupload) was talking to the Prime Minister of New Zealand
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/kim-dotcom-zealand-pm-face-off-073519268.html
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18 / M / Tórshavn
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Posted 7/3/13 , edited 7/3/13
Mass protests planned over web NSA spying revelations
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23160309

Sign this Petition if you're against the US spying on everyone, this goes for every person out there, not only the US citizen, but for everyone that doesn't want their privacy right to disappear.
https://optin.stopwatching.us/
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Posted 7/4/13 , edited 7/4/13

JayVeeDees wrote:

Mass protests planned over web NSA spying revelations
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23160309

Sign this Petition if you're against the US spying on everyone, this goes for every person out there, not only the US citizen, but for everyone that doesn't want their privacy right to disappear.
https://optin.stopwatching.us/


Yes!

THE INTERNET HATH SPOKEN!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/03/nsa-protest-reddit-mozilla-july-4_n_3540893.html

http://internetdefenseleague.org/

http://www.restorethefourth.net/

Oh, you have to love some action.
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