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NSA Spying
3525 cr points
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32 / M / "Spaaaaace!"
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Posted 6/7/13 , edited 6/7/13

kamaitachi5587 wrote:

Awesome, Can you post your full legal name street address and credit card and SSN? There should be no privacy at all so you should have no issue posting that information on a public forum. Just because one has nothing to hide does not mean one should have their privacy invaded. Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.. I'd rather a thousand criminals go uncaught than one innocent man has his essential rights infringed upon.


Translation: I got a shit ton of questionably legal porn...

Don't get me wrong. I prize my personal privacy as much as the next person(translation: I like porn too)...

But the moment you put any personal information onto facebook, onto twitter, purchase online, Google anything,create an account on an anime website; download any application, you are willingly foregoing a certain amount of your privacy.
Posted 6/7/13 , edited 6/7/13
My opinion is that, if the US govt wants to be evil, they don't need to spy on people, they can just use propaganda.

I don't care if any organisation or anyone is spying on me, I hope they say "hi" while doing so.
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34 / M / US
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Posted 6/7/13

spacebat wrote:


kamaitachi5587 wrote:

Awesome, Can you post your full legal name street address and credit card and SSN? There should be no privacy at all so you should have no issue posting that information on a public forum. Just because one has nothing to hide does not mean one should have their privacy invaded. Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.. I'd rather a thousand criminals go uncaught than one innocent man has his essential rights infringed upon.


Translation: I got a shit ton of questionably legal porn...

Don't get me wrong. I prize my personal privacy as much as the next person(translation: I like porn too)...

But the moment you put any personal information onto facebook, onto twitter, purchase online, Google anything,create an account on an anime website; download any application, you are willingly foregoing a certain amount of your privacy.


Wow are you wrong. It isn't a matter of questionably legal porn. It is a matter of SOMEONE ELSE having power over you. Knowledge is power, especially personal knowledge. You have no idea how fucking dangerous that is.

It is already bad. With a name, an approximate age +/- 10 years and a city you've once lived in, I can look up your address, phone, arrest history, known associates, family members, their addresses, their numbers, their associates. With a name and a city and an approximate age, I could obtain the knowledge necessary to wipe your entire family out of history forever.

Now governments are made out of *gasp* people. Governments are not above crime. They are not above being sloppy for the sake of getting off work early. The people who make up governmental offices are not above power trips. They must be held accountable. If they are not, then the slippery slope will continue on and on. We either fight to be free men, or we are owned by the power that would-have-been private knowledge holds over us. When we pick and choose who has rights, we are all vulnerable and none of us have rights.
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F / West
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Posted 6/7/13
The same people who are bitching and moaning are the same people who want to send all their correspondences via electronically, do their banking electronically, why wouldn't the govt. monitor our lazy asses,us who have forgotten to write an actual letter and mail it, walk into a bank and conduct business, go to a friend's house and talk there, instead of constantly texting one another.
We as a society now put all our business out there publicly and then become outraged that how we are choosing to communicate nowadays is being spied on.
The many times I have picked up the phone to call a company, be it my health insurance , or my credit card companies or banks, etc..I get the recorded message saying this call may be monitored...well guess what? That wasn't a lie..it is.
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26 / M
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Posted 6/7/13

spacebat wrote:


kamaitachi5587 wrote:

Awesome, Can you post your full legal name street address and credit card and SSN? There should be no privacy at all so you should have no issue posting that information on a public forum. Just because one has nothing to hide does not mean one should have their privacy invaded. Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.. I'd rather a thousand criminals go uncaught than one innocent man has his essential rights infringed upon.


Translation: I got a shit ton of questionably legal porn...

Don't get me wrong. I prize my personal privacy as much as the next person(translation: I like porn too)...

But the moment you put any personal information onto facebook, onto twitter, purchase online, Google anything,create an account on an anime website; download any application, you are willingly foregoing a certain amount of your privacy.


Still dude that is kind of questionable in all of this. We do stuff on the internet, that yes puts out some of our privacy, but we also entrust that information will not be displayed out into the open. If our credit card information could easily be thrown out there with every purchase, there would be no confidence in the system. The really problem I think here is that, the free world has not yet tackled this issue of privacy and the internet. It's why I endorse the United States crafting an internet bill of rights. The world has changed and our principles need to adapt to match those changing times. We shouldn't have to keep sacrificing rights just so we can access new things in the world. Otherwise we are looking at one bad slippery slope. Thats my opinion on it anyways.
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39 / M / Florida
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Posted 6/7/13
All I can say is they're going to enjoy looking at my data because I'm going to start looking up some really screwed up stuff!
Not bad stuff as in what they're trying to find from people, but stuff that will keep them entertained, or having nightmares, for some time!
55109 cr points
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Posted 6/7/13
Where can I sign up to get a job sitting in a govt cubicle listening to people having phone sex all day?
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32 / M / "Spaaaaace!"
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Posted 6/7/13 , edited 6/7/13

Did you read what a typed or are you just being confrontational for the sake of confrontation?
What is your point? How does anything I posted have anything to do with freedom?
64447 cr points
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34 / M / US
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Posted 6/7/13

Lemon0118 wrote:

They were saying China would spy on citizens if they gave them access to infrastructure, but they were doing it themselves anyway. The patriot act says it's okay. Is it patriotic to give away your liberty? If the people didn't want it why did they pass it. Isn't it supposed to be a democracy (representative democracy).


1) The United states was NEVER supposed to be a democracy.
2) A democracy is mob rule. 49% of people always get screwed in a democracy.
3) The US was supposed to be a democratic republic. A republic is a system of government in which community leaders meet to represent the needs of their communities at a larger (national) level. A democratic republic uses a democratic vote to choose those representatives. The representatives do the governing because they are supposed to be respected members of their communities and, by the fact that they live in said communities, will legislate in such a way that is most beneficial for those communities. Being born and over 18 does not qualify you to set policy, it only qualifies you to vote for those whom you respect and trust to do so.
4) The US stopped being a republic when the Democrat and Republican parties took almost absolute control over elections. Our representatives are not from our communities, they do not even know their communities. Their primary residences are in Washington DC and senators will often run for office having never lived in an area (Like when Hillary moved to NY and immediately got elected, despite having only lived in NY for a few weeks). The major parties in the US are NOT a part of government (they are NOWHERE in the constitution and George Washington vehemently warned against them), they are private clubs which share money to get the top members of the club elected to governmental office. The US government no longer works for the people or the communities, it works for high ranking members of those clubs.
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25 / M / Missouri
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Posted 6/7/13
One question citizen. Are you a communist?
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26 / M
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Posted 6/7/13

dark_paradox_21 wrote:


Lemon0118 wrote:

They were saying China would spy on citizens if they gave them access to infrastructure, but they were doing it themselves anyway. The patriot act says it's okay. Is it patriotic to give away your liberty? If the people didn't want it why did they pass it. Isn't it supposed to be a democracy (representative democracy).


1) The United states was NEVER supposed to be a democracy.
2) A democracy is mob rule. 49% of people always get screwed in a democracy.
3) The US was supposed to be a democratic republic. A republic is a system of government in which community leaders meet to represent the needs of their communities at a larger (national) level. A democratic republic uses a democratic vote to choose those representatives. The representatives do the governing because they are supposed to be respected members of their communities and, by the fact that they live in said communities, will legislate in such a way that is most beneficial for those communities. Being born and over 18 does not qualify you to set policy, it only qualifies you to vote for those whom you respect and trust to do so.
4) The US stopped being a republic when the Democrat and Republican parties took almost absolute control over elections. Our representatives are not from our communities, they do not even know their communities. Their primary residences are in Washington DC and senators will often run for office having never lived in an area (Like when Hillary moved to NY and immediately got elected, despite having only lived in NY for a few weeks). The major parties in the US are NOT a part of government (they are NOWHERE in the constitution and George Washington vehemently warned against them), they are private clubs which share money to get the top members of the club elected to governmental office. The US government no longer works for the people or the communities, it works for high ranking members of those clubs.


yes TECHNICALLY a democracy would be defined as mob rule, but the term has evolved overtime now to what it is today. Yes it wasn't supposed to be a democracy, but the people who formed this nation did so with the intention of preserving the liberty they had grown to love and admire over the centuries of being here.

As for the party thing, while I do believe the party system definitely posed problems for the republic, I don't think it of itself negated it being a republic. I think the problem was not that democrats and republicans took control of it, but that the realities of government forced the parties into place. Coalitions needed to be formed in order for government to be efficient and sort out differences through commonality. While I don't like only democrats and republicans getting favor in elections and no other parties, the party system itself seems to be a necessity until we can figure out another way around it in our government. Thats been my conclusion anyways when looking at our history.

You're right, the US government is corrupt to the core right now, but thats why we got to fight for it now. Hopefully time will show that we will.

On a side note, I love your spirit bro, it sounds very passionate about all this. Keep it up
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Posted 6/7/13 , edited 6/7/13

spacebat wrote:


Did you read what a typed or are you just being confrontational for the sake of confrontation?
What is your point? How does anything I posted have anything to do with freedom?


Everything you wrote has everything to do with freedom. That you don't get it truly terrifies me.

I am a veteran. SO is my father. So are both of my grandfathers, and their fathers. My family has been bleeding and watching friends die for that freedom for as long as the US has been a country -- before even (my great grandsire was a servant to William Penn, who left England due in part to the lack of religious freedoms).

It honestly pains me that you don't get it. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I am trying to TEACH YOU SOMETHING.

A RIGHT must be taken and enforced. If it can be given or restricted, it is no longer a right. A person cannot ASK for a right. The mere act of asking establishes a social hierarchy which assumes that the person being asked is superior to the one doing the asking. The RIGHT to privacy is something that millions have bled and died for. It is something that we will continue to bleed and die for because we are free men.

You are correct that there are fools who post sensitive information for all to see. They are fools, but they are free to be fools. To set a policy of systematic legal snooping is entirely different and it violates a RIGHT that was fought for and cost dearly. To be upset by that does NOT mean that we are afraid of our porn stash going public. It means that we are free men who refuse to be branded and cataloged like livestock.

Lets take a relationship example. If you refer to a girl as "my bitch," put a collar on her, watch her every minute and beat her when she does something you aren't comfortable with, you will not be well liked. Humans are not to be treated as animals. When you spy, you show disrespect, jealousy and distrust. There are some kinky people in the world who might get off on that for a while, but a relationship built of spying and mistrust will never last. It is objectifying a person. It is degrading and disrespectful. Even if that woman is faithful, calling her a bitch, branding her and following her would solidly put you into the realm of "creepy perverted stalker who deserves prison time."

So, if you couldn't get away with treating a romantic partner like that, why in the HELL should a government get away with treating its people like objects to be cataloged and controlled? People can be completely innocent -- pure as snow -- and still value the freedom of privacy. Your porn comment is terrifyingly ignorant.
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Posted 6/7/13

botogamer wrote:

Still dude that is kind of questionable in all of this. We do stuff on the internet, that yes puts out some of our privacy, but we also entrust that information will not be displayed out into the open. If our credit card information could easily be thrown out there with every purchase, there would be no confidence in the system. The really problem I think here is that, the free world has not yet tackled this issue of privacy and the internet. It's why I endorse the United States crafting an internet bill of rights. The world has changed and our principles need to adapt to match those changing times. We shouldn't have to keep sacrificing rights just so we can access new things in the world. Otherwise we are looking at one bad slippery slope. Thats my opinion on it anyways.


We agree on most accounts. The digital frontier is the closest thing we have ever come to a truly Hollywood like Wild-West (It's frightening). I have my CCNA certs and I've done quite a bit of pen testing, switch and router programming, trust me when I tell you we have a long way to go when it comes to digital privacy. I'm not sure to whom you are entrusting to keep your information private; have you read your ISPs User Agreement and Privacy Policies?

We definitely need rules on digital privacy and we need to be able to trust our government; meaning the NSA needs to be more open about what they are doing. Google does not hide it's invasiveness, neither should government agencies and when they lie or are not upfront about their activities they should certainly be held accountable.
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Posted 6/7/13
Well, won't it be awkward for the NSA when they realize that I'm watching them while they watch me.

Honestly, this might be a necessary evil. Sure, it is pretty bad and its an invasion of privacy, but if it helps prevent terrorism, then you can't really argue with the results.
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Posted 6/7/13

dark_paradox_21 wrote:


You are correct that there are fools who post sensitive information for all to see. They are fools, but they are free to be fools. To set a policy of systematic legal snooping is entirely different and it violates a RIGHT that was fought for and cost dearly. To be upset by that does NOT mean that we are afraid of our porn stash going public. It means that we are free men who refuse to be branded and cataloged like livestock.


Once again. I never once stated I agree with government agencies data mining information on its citizens. I believe the Patriot Act is a gross infringement on civil liberties and I think the NSA should be held accountable for their actions. I also agree that we need greater digital privacy and that begins with the implementation of better internet and digital law, because our current laws can't even protect us against ourselves let alone our own government.

So, what is it you are trying to teach me and what is your point?
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