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Post Reply Rape-- Does the way you dress have nothing to do with it?
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23 / F / United States
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Posted 10/22/14

Morbidhanson wrote:

I'm sure there have been cases in which clothing has something to do with it, however little. So I'm reluctant to say that clothing has absolutely nothing to do with it in any and all cases ever.

The image that comes to mind is that of a carjacker. It should be common sense to not leave your door unlocked and the keys in the ignition overnight (yes, this has happened before and the guy who did it was charged with contributory negligence after the thief stole the car and was involved in a deadly accident) in a bad neighborhood. What about leaving your car running while you quickly run into your house to retrieve something you forgot?

You can argue that most car owners lock their cars but the carjacker still has ways to break into such cars to steal them or parts in them. Fact of the matter is that an unlocked door makes it much easier for someone to steal a car, plain and simple. Not securing your stuff makes it more likely to be stolen just like how provocative attire can cause more men to approach you.

In the perfect world, nobody would steal or rape so locks and conservative clothing will not be needed but, lo and behold, our world is a mess and people are scum. Just as we might say a car owner is stupid for not securing his car, we say that clothing may influence a person's likelihood of being raped. There is, indeed, a degree of contribution by the victim in some cases but we should never blame the victim because it is the offender who has broken the rules and ultimately caused the harm in the end. For such acts, there is no excuse. It would be prudent to enforce the proper code and teach people precautions, but to blame victims for the consequence of the wrongdoing of another, to shift the blame from the offender to the victim is not justifiable. Rape is wrong just as theft is wrong. Make no mistake, contributing to one's own harm IS perfectly possible but mere contribution should not subject a person to the full burden of the blame. It might reduce the amount you should be allowed to recover for, but you should be allowed recovery nonetheless. And, obviously, punitive damages for the rapist should not be reduced or mitigated.


Stealing is not the same and nor is it comparable to rape. To say such a thing just shows you don't have much of an understanding of how grave it is. It is much worse than being robbed. Clothing has no play in this because anyone could be raped regardless of the clothing they were wearing. To suggest such a thing is to rob people of their autonomy to their own bodies. They have every right to wear what they want and not get raped. If a man was raped, no one would even think to ask what clothing they were wearing because it has no bearing on the situation and women deserve the same respect.
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Posted 10/22/14 , edited 10/22/14

Kanade_Yagami wrote:


Morbidhanson wrote:

I'm sure there have been cases in which clothing has something to do with it, however little. So I'm reluctant to say that clothing has absolutely nothing to do with it in any and all cases ever.

The image that comes to mind is that of a carjacker. It should be common sense to not leave your door unlocked and the keys in the ignition overnight (yes, this has happened before and the guy who did it was charged with contributory negligence after the thief stole the car and was involved in a deadly accident) in a bad neighborhood. What about leaving your car running while you quickly run into your house to retrieve something you forgot?

You can argue that most car owners lock their cars but the carjacker still has ways to break into such cars to steal them or parts in them. Fact of the matter is that an unlocked door makes it much easier for someone to steal a car, plain and simple. Not securing your stuff makes it more likely to be stolen just like how provocative attire can cause more men to approach you.

In the perfect world, nobody would steal or rape so locks and conservative clothing will not be needed but, lo and behold, our world is a mess and people are scum. Just as we might say a car owner is stupid for not securing his car, we say that clothing may influence a person's likelihood of being raped. There is, indeed, a degree of contribution by the victim in some cases but we should never blame the victim because it is the offender who has broken the rules and ultimately caused the harm in the end. For such acts, there is no excuse. It would be prudent to enforce the proper code and teach people precautions, but to blame victims for the consequence of the wrongdoing of another, to shift the blame from the offender to the victim is not justifiable. Rape is wrong just as theft is wrong. Make no mistake, contributing to one's own harm IS perfectly possible but mere contribution should not subject a person to the full burden of the blame. It might reduce the amount you should be allowed to recover for, but you should be allowed recovery nonetheless. And, obviously, punitive damages for the rapist should not be reduced or mitigated.


Stealing is not the same and nor is it comparable to rape. To say such a thing just shows you don't have much of an understanding of how grave it is. It is much worse than being robbed. Clothing has no play in this because anyone could be raped regardless of the clothing they were wearing. To suggest such a thing is to rob people of their autonomy to their own bodies. They have every right to wear what they want and not get raped. If a man was raped, no one would even think to ask what clothing they were wearing because it has no bearing on the situation and women deserve the same respect.


Please read the first and last parts of my comment.

Do you know people who dressed suggestively and went out to nightclubs and such and gotten sexually assaulted because the aggressors perceived them as more attractive due to their clothing, so saw them as more desirable targets? There were other girls dressed more conservatively who were less inhibited because they were doing drugs and such.

I do. A number of them, actually. A girl passed out in an alley wearing only a miniskirt and a revealing top is probably going to be a more likely target than a girl wearing layers of big, old, dirty clothes in the same situation. What if the girl was naked? What if the girl was wearing a ridiculous and unwieldy giant animal mascot costume? You get the point. This is why I'm unwilling to say CLOTHING HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RAPE IN ANY AND ALL CASES EVER. The statement essentially means the same as "clothing has nothing to do with rape" but is meant to highlight the absolute nature of the claim.

The absolute nature of this statement should be allowed to sink in a little. Am I saying most rapes happen because of clothing choices? No. Am I saying that men and women do not deserve equal respect as to bodily integrity? No. Am I saying most rapes are undertaken by complete strangers in extreme scenarios? No. Am I saying people should not be allowed to wear what they want? No. Am I saying rape is as morally blameworthy as the mere theft of a common car and diminishing its possible severe emotional and physical consequences? No. That's ridiculous and nobody would agree with that.

I'm saying that clothing might have something to do with some cases of rape and, therefore, it is possible to contribute to one's own cause of rape, however small the degree or however rarely there is said contribution. I believe this is true even if the victim is unaware of the contribution.The point is not ALL rape cases have nothing whatsoever to do with clothing. Please process the comment whole. I went into detail for a reason.


Edit: I'm aware most rapes (something like 80% reported) are by people known to the victim and that many are actually quite complicated. Rape is also something that the victim is occasionally not aware of. The victim may not always be a woman. The morning after, the victim might wonder if it was rape. The victim might have consented to sex but the act was not 'willful' because consent was only given in order to receive some sort of benefit. There are limitless possibilities and I find that even defining rape is somewhat difficult since there are always borderline cases that make you rethink what is really fair and whether our current legal definitions are acceptable.
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Posted 10/22/14
This thread is cancer.
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24 / F / New Zealand
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Posted 10/23/14

KonyTheKing wrote:

This thread is cancer.


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20 / M / Hertfordshire, En...
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Posted 10/23/14 , edited 15 days ago
I'm not going to read through all these pages on this subject matter, because I don't trust people not to devolve into stupidity.

So, I can't remember the exact quote, or the source (which I'm certain was reliable), since it was quite a while back, but on questioning convicted rapists, many of them commented that clothing played little to no part in their motive for actually committing the rape. This idea that men have so little will and self-control, that revealing clothing will cause us all to lose our shit and become moralless, thoughtless slaves to our biological urges and make us want to sexual assault random women is the worst kind of insulting.

If I was alone in this library, right now, with no cameras, and some girl walked in, nonchalantly, wearing nothing, that wouldn't make me flcik the off switch on my conscience and rape her. Take naturists, for example. You would think that by this logic rape would reach skyrocketing figures in the ares they frequent, which couldn't be further from the truth, and it's to my understanding that it's the exact opposite.

Like in one of the few posts I read said, this fails to take into account the rape of little children. Are we then going to say that it's because little children wear provocative clothing that they get raped? Obviously that's a load of bull, since, unless there's a serious issue with the parenting, little children don't dress provactively. It also fails to take into account that rape isn't only an occurance that happens outside, after a night out at a bar or nightclub, on women.

I won't say provactive clothing in such cases plays absolutely zero part in a rapist's motive, but I will say that I believe the part it plays is almost non-existent. If there are a bunch of completely naked women walking around, together, at night, and one fully-clothed woman, walking alone down an alley-way, I'm fairly sure we know who would be the more likely to get raped, and I'm sure we could all get into the warped mind of the rapist to see their reasoning behind it.

Can we please not make rape an issue of telling women to be smarter about how they do things? I can only imagine that that will result in self-blaming, and the feeling of themselves being the ones who did something wrong, and feeling like they should have done something about it. Rather than that, why don't we blame the person who committed the crime? You never see this with any other crime and all it does is perpetuate the taboo nature of the topic of rape, and keep victims from coming forward and reporting it. Do we want rape to remain a taboo topic, and people to not come forward when it happens, and just let the rapists continue living their lives unpunished? I don't think we do, so let's stop placing blame (minor or not) on the vitims.
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Posted 15 days ago
Rape has actually gone down over the last 30 years.

Some people take this as that it's underreported.

Some people also are negligent in understanding that rape isn't solely a male thing done to women.

Some people also seem to take rape as a feminist problem, and feminism, at least the feminism I used to be willing to champion is dead. It's been replaced with learned helplessness and a lack of critical thinking that result in wildly out of proportion rants about how "horrible" things are for women. Are thing equal? NO! But they're more equal than they ever have been.

Does clothing have to do with rape? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh..............

Sex is something that's ambiguous. We dress provocatively to attract mates. We get reactionary when we attract people we aren't attracted to (but we dress for that attention... just not from the people that respond). We also allude to sex rather than overtly ask for it. This leads to complications in defining what is consent or forced. (Not saying if a woman says no it's alright, nor is it alright if you have to use force... unless she's into that, which, funny enough, further shows how ambiguous sex is). Though we could be incredibly clear and say, "Do you want to have sex?" to someone, it's nopt romantic, and definitely a mood killer. Add to the mix a generation of incredibly socially inept and awkward people who spend too much time in front of screens rather than interacting with people, and that their media is rather demonstrative of everyone either already having sex or should be seeking out sex, and then there's alcohol's prevalent role in the lead up to sex...

It's like there's "meh....rape..." and "RAPE!!!". "RAPE!!!" is bad. "RAPE!!!" is very clear, violent, and obvious. "meh.... rape..." is because nobody actually says no explicitly, but feels they alluded to it, or they might have had sex, ut they don't remember, or they may not have been in the fullest capacity to make decisions because they drank alot.... and that's really where the "rape" debate occurs. Because there's no differentiation in the discussion on rape about the two types of rape. Everyone hates "RAPE!!!" but not everyone can agree on "meh... rape..."

Personally,I side with people needing to take some damned responsibility and not getting into situations that could result in "meh... rape..." Part of that is understanding that if you dress the part, you will have people believe you fit the occupation, whether that's something wanted or not.
xenara 
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Posted 14 days ago , edited 11 days ago
There are way too many pages here for me to read through them all.... but I have a couple of things to add here for thought that may have already been brought up at some point along this thread:

Men do rape other men. This is probably much more common that is reported. This would be because a lot of men would never admit that something like that has happened to them. Rape in prison is common. I don't think it has anything to do with clothing unless you find orange coveralls sexy......

Rape is rampant all over the world... especially in countries where women are lesser, second-class citizens. There are many countries where it is unacceptable for women to wear anything revealing, yet rape is still very commonplace.

There are many countries in Africa and the middle east and elsewhere where child rape (and child marriage) is commonplace. And I am talking about the rape of girls under the age of 10 years old.

Could it be that rape is more of a power thing than a "I get so horny seeing a girl in a short skirt I just can't help myself thing?" Do you really have that little willpower that you can't control your urges when you see a girl wearing something sexy? How do you handle going to a strip club without raping all the women there? And by the way.... here in Canada women get completely naked at all strip clubs. That is just the normal thing here. And men aren't charging the stage to rape them all......

Oh... and I did want to add that as a woman you have to use your common sense in some situations. If you are traveling alone in Saudi Arabia or something... pay attention to the culture and don't dress like an idiot with hooker boots and a short skirt with your boobs hanging out. You will get unwanted attention because that is NOT something that is acceptable in their culture. Have respect for other cultures and educate yourself before assuming everyone is going to be okay with your style and mannerisms that are the norm in your culture/country.

On the flip side... if I am walking around my own home town in blaring summer heat... I'm not wearing a burka just in case some dude might get so aroused by my summer dress and rape me. I should be able to wear a dress or some shorts and a tank top without worrying about being jumped and raped.
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Posted 10 days ago , edited 10 days ago
It doesn't matter if the woman is wearing see-through latex. It is never okay to rape someone because of what they are wearing (or lack thereof) . We mustn't blame the victims , as not only is it not right but compounds their trauma.

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Posted 10 days ago
I stand by the old adage, "dress for the job". I don't think it makes rape excusable, I'm just saying that if you look a part, regardless of what that part is, people are going to assume you work the job.
xenara 
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Posted 8 days ago
Yup, gotta watch out you don't look too desirable..... 'Cause I know tons of people who aren't hookers who try to emulate them by dressing like this:

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Posted 6 days ago
In my opinion i think clothing does not have anything to do with it. if someone wants to rape you can can wear a burka and they will still rape you
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Posted 5 days ago
It's hard to say, because in a way the answer can be yes. And then the answer can be no.

My reason for believing this is because clothing itself is a material, and therefore not the deciding factor in whether someone gets raped or violated in any way shape or form. At the same time, since beginning my first semester of college this Fall, I realize how exactly the clothing can influence the one who is likely to take advantage of the victim.

You see, in the American public school system, each municipal county is responsible for mandating a dress code in which they tell the students exactly how revealing the clothing can be before it becomes obscenely unnecessary and inappropriate for young individuals. In high school, they lay off a little of course, but then there's the teenagers who want to wear much less than the dress code permits and there's always one in every high school no matter where you go on Earth. Even if it's a uniform, there's still going to be that girl who tries to cut the skirt a little shorter if they can help it. I never personally felt the need to expose my body, so I never wore anything that was too flattering. I like my clothing to be comfortable, you know?

Now, my oldest brother and I have both started college this Fall. He lives in Wisconsin while I'm in Florida. Things have been cold in Wisconsin since mid-September and the weather here in Florida has been relatively mild as well. Upon going to classes, we found that there are an alarming number of girls who try to wear little dresses and outfits that were revealing to some degree. considering how the weather has been getting colder lately, their choice of clothing had become utterly unreasonable.

What tends to happen with this is that a lot of girls, after graduating high school and starting college, they will go out and assert their newly found freedom to flaunt their attractiveness as much as they want, especially now there's no public school dress code to hold them back. This isn't every girl in college, of course, but the ones who are guilty of this are usually the ones who go to college under the pretense that now they are an adult and can do anything they want. A lot of guys in college who fall victim to this same behavior tend to get a little too cocky, and, in some cases, these same guys tend to get irritatingly ravenous about getting laid now that they're in college. There are a disgusting few who feel like the pretty girls who dress up pretty are obligated to have sex with them because they are making themselves look so attractive.

For the ones who are sexually deviant, they look forward to the opportunity of sex so much that they tend to read into the situation too much and they find signals of invitation where the person might have just been trying to be nice to them. (I've heard a story where a man chastised and effectively preyed on a cashier girl at McDonald's that she was flirting with him just because she was smiling at the customers.)

In some cases, there are individuals who see provocative clothing as an invitation to sex, and, depending on how sexually deviant they are, they will likely cling onto the anticipation of having sex with the victim that they will take advantage of them under the belief that the victim was obligated to have sex with them if they were going to be as provocative as they were at the time.

So does clothing have anything to do with provoking rape? Maybe, but there's no real way of answering, because it could happen because of clothing and it could also happen because of something else entirely. A girl in a burqua can be raped because the man was trying to assert dominance, but a girl in college could be raped because the man couldn't control his sexual desires enough to realize that the girl never consented in the first place.
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