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Post Reply Rape-- Does the way you dress have nothing to do with it?
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35 / M / Northern California
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Posted 6/11/13 , edited 6/11/13

swirly_commode wrote:


Students at universities and colleges are at the highest risk for sexual assault, particularly acquaintance rape. A book by Robin Warshaw, I Never Called It Rape, cites a study of 6,000 college students at 32 colleges and universities.



ill just leave it at that and see if you can figure out the difference between what you quoted and the rest of the real world.


Sure, here are some real world statistics: http://www.911rape.org/facts-quotes/statistics

Most notably, that 1 in 6 women (out of 8000) as studied by the DOJ and CDC, were raped, or were the victims of attempted rape, and 82% of those rapes and attempted rapes were committed by an acquaintance (acquaintance/friend, intimate, relative). Sure that leaves just 18% that were raped by a stranger, or were the victims of an attempted assault.

As I stated, clothing is a major factor only in a few certain cases, in which the rapist has a particular clothing fetish. Otherwise, to suggest clothing is the reason is still just an opinion, unless you have actual statistics to back up your claim as "fact."

This is in Extended Discussion, if you're going to debate, then do so. The burden of proof is on you, since you claim otherwise: How are the statistics not reflective of the real world?
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 6/11/13
So you think that no ghetto thug ever saw a woman, thought she was hot dressed like that and followed her homw and raped her?

Youre a college kid, arent you?
Statistics dont make up the real world.
Statistics are a mathematical approximation of real events used for the purpose of studying systems or trends.

The real world cant always be reduced to a few numbers fhat you talk about in a class room.
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35 / M / Northern California
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Posted 6/11/13 , edited 6/11/13

swirly_commode wrote:
So you think that no ghetto thug ever saw a woman, thought she was hot dressed like that and followed her homw and raped her?


Does that happen? Sure. But they are NOT the majority of cases, and that premise is not what I, or the studies, or any of the crime statistics suggest. Again, over 80% of the victims know their attacker prior to the attack. That still leaves all the cases in which people are raped by strangers, which is what you're referring to. In the majority of cases, which constitute acquaintance rape, clothing worn at the time of the attack is not a significant factor.

The conjecture from outside observers may suggest as such, in order to shame or blame the victim, but that is opinion, NOT factual, and therefore not applicable to most cases. It doesn't hold up as a defense in court, and it sure as hell doesn't hold up here. The only place that argument holds any water is in the court of public opinion, which further proves the point I made about blaming the victim for the rapist's lack of control.

Has clothing been a factor in specific cases? Yes, and they are in the minority of the total cases. Under 20% of the total cases is not a majority, especially when you factor in that there are many cases that go unreported. I am not stating that clothing is "never a factor." I am stating that it is not a significant factor in the majority of cases, and all the data (including the crime statistics from the FBI) supports that conclusion. Dismissing facts in favor of opinion is easy enough to do I suppose, but you're not helping to make your case when you do so.

So then, is it a significant factor in most cases? No. Most attackers do even not remember the clothing of their victim in their court testimony, so in the cases of acquaintance rape, the clothing worn at the time doesn't factor in as prominently as you suggest. Correlation "She must have been wearing revealing clothing!" does not imply causation "Her clothing caused him to lose his self control! She's to blame for that!".

If correlation implied causation, then the number of reported rapes in New York City should have skyrocketed since women were legally able to be topless in public. Their bare breasts are exposed, so they're just asking for it, right? And the rapists should have cited what they were (or rather, weren't) wearing as the trigger for the attack. The logic doesn't follow. Sure, most rapists aren't thinking logically to begin with, but this is effectively what you are arguing, and it's not happening in reality.

The results (including the number of rapes reported, which is fewer than the actual number of assaults) are true, whether you choose to believe them. And that is where your opinion differs from the facts.

Your ad hominem attempt on me aside, calling something a fact because you believe it to be true doesn't hold up in a debate, much less a reasoned discussion.
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 6/11/13
So it does happen.
Clothing and looks does matter.

That is the entire point of this thread and youve been in total denial of reality.
Nobody ever said clothing is the cause every time or even most of the time, only that it does happen.
Youve been dancing around reality and creating a fantasy world to support your femenist bias for the entire thread.
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Posted 6/11/13

Spazticus wrote:


swirly_commode wrote:
So you think that no ghetto thug ever saw a woman, thought she was hot dressed like that and followed her homw and raped her?


Does that happen? Sure. But they are NOT the majority of cases, and that premise is not what I, or the studies, or any of the crime statistics suggest. Again, over 80% of the victims know their attacker prior to the attack. That still leaves all the cases in which people are raped by strangers, which is what you're referring to. In the majority of cases, which constitute acquaintance rape, clothing worn at the time of the attack is not a significant factor.

The conjecture from outside observers may suggest as such, in order to shame or blame the victim, but that is opinion, NOT factual, and therefore not applicable to most cases. It doesn't hold up as a defense in court, and it sure as hell doesn't hold up here. The only place that argument holds any water is in the court of public opinion, which further proves the point I made about blaming the victim for the rapist's lack of control.

Has clothing been a factor in specific cases? Yes, and they are in the minority of the total cases. Under 20% of the total cases is not a majority, especially when you factor in that there are many cases that go unreported. I am not stating that clothing is "never a factor." I am stating that it is not a significant factor in the majority of cases, and all the data (including the crime statistics from the FBI) supports that conclusion. Dismissing facts in favor of opinion is easy enough to do I suppose, but you're not helping to make your case when you do so.

So then, is it a significant factor in most cases? No. Most attackers do even not remember the clothing of their victim in their court testimony, so in the cases of acquaintance rape, the clothing worn at the time doesn't factor in as prominently as you suggest. Correlation "She must have been wearing revealing clothing!" does not imply causation "Her clothing caused him to lose his self control! She's to blame for that!".

If correlation implied causation, then the number of reported rapes in New York City should have skyrocketed since women were legally able to be topless in public. Their bare breasts are exposed, so they're just asking for it, right? And the rapists should have cited what they were (or rather, weren't) wearing as the trigger for the attack. The logic doesn't follow. Sure, most rapists aren't thinking logically to begin with, but this is effectively what you are arguing, and it's not happening in reality.

The results (including the number of rapes reported, which is fewer than the actual number of assaults) are true, whether you choose to believe them. And that is where your opinion differs from the facts.

Your ad hominem attempt on me aside, calling something a fact because you believe it to be true doesn't hold up in a debate, much less a reasoned discussion.


Clothes don't cause a rape, it just may increase you chances of it. There is alot of factors actually. But stating clothes have nothing what so ever to do with it isn't true. I'm talking about date raping, things like that ( Sorry on my part I should have clarified),

You just need to remember to dress appropriately at the appropriate places. No you don't have to wrap yourself up like a spring roll, but just a little protection goes along way.

But also weak women are exploited yes, one of my friends unfortunately talked to a trafficker, who for some reason started blurting to him which girls he goes for.
Does that mean all raped women are weak? No, but its a FACTOR, just like dressing.
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17 / F / Night Vale
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Posted 6/11/13
All I can say for this matter, agreeing with a lot of posts, anybody can be a victim.
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35 / M / Northern California
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Posted 6/11/13

swirly_commode wrote:

So it does happen.
Clothing and looks does matter.

That is the entire point of this thread and youve been in total denial of reality.
Nobody ever said clothing is the cause every time or even most of the time, only that it does happen.
Youve been dancing around reality and creating a fantasy world to support your femenist bias for the entire thread.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/25/you-deserve-rape-sign-brother-dean_n_3154980.html

Maybe you'll ignore this too, but I'll repost it for your benefit. This asshole is suggesting that women deserve rape, specifically because of how they are dressed. This is the extremist view of the clothing argument, personified. His exact point is to blame the victims, and it's the reason I'm saying that while clothing has contributed in the minority of rapes, it has by no means contributed to the majority of them, which the OP had originally implied. As it is stated in the first post: "in most cases" - which is what I have been consistently refuting throughout the thread.

The OP's view has since been clarified a bit, but my other point still stands: The clothing that the victim wore is used as a way to deflect blame from the rapist, and you cannot deny that it happens in the court of public opinion. I even provided proof that it happens, in the link above. The last thing rape victims need is someone telling them that they deserved to be raped, because of how they are/were dressed. "The devil made me do it!" is no more a valid excuse than "Her clothing made me do it!" but this is the sort of mentality that assholes like this "Brother Dean" want to legitimize. "It's not the rapist's fault, she was just dressed that way, and he lost control..." Yeah, that's bullshit. He lost control because of a lot of reasons, but nobody asks to be raped, and they sure as hell don't deserve it.
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Posted 6/11/13
No matter what the woman is wearing, it'll all be taken off of her in the end.
I don't think that it's the clothes, but if the woman is pretty/has a nice body or not.
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 6/11/13
So rather than accept a middle ground you go to the other extreme and pretend youre too good to even possibly admit clothing and looks csn play a part.
If one extreme is bad then the other must be good right?

If sorry you are incapable of separating reality from feminazism but, even you admotted, clothes and looks can and will play a part.
Only a crackpot would claim someone deserves rape.
And only a crackpot would say it never has anything to do with looks.
Rape is still always the rspists fault. A crackpot claiming otherwise doesnt valdate your point either. we all know yheir are crazies and sickos out there.
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Posted 6/11/13 , edited 6/11/13
I remember in intro law my professor told a story about how she declined to be an attorney for one her clients who was accused of raping a child. Before my professor drop the case they both had a prior consultation and according to her, the guy said something along the lines of: "I couldn't help it she was wearing a tu-tu, she was so cute I couldn't help it".

It might have something to do with it, probably less than other things though.

*edit*
I do not think in my professor case that clothes was actually a huge factor. I suspect that the criminal, being in the psychological state he was in, probably thought that saying that she was in a tu-tu would somehow excuse him of his crime. I also do not think wearing a tu-tu could have been the main trigger for the outburst, the man clearly had intentional sexual aggression against young children, something as small as asking where the bathroom is could have set it off.
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 6/11/13
Exactly.
The guy is a freak who deserves the full extent of the law thrown at him bit clothes do matter.
Its never the girls fault and they do not deserve to be treated like that. Rapists are shit and deserve to be incinerated with the rest of the trash
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Posted 6/11/13 , edited 6/11/13
Some people are just walking rape bait.

Poor Mikuru. That girl got her clothes ripped off her by Haruhi in every episode.
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 6/11/13

FlyinDumpling wrote:

I remember in intro law my professor told a story about how she declined to be an attorney for one her clients who was accused of raping a child. Before my professor drop the case they both had a prior consultation and according to her, the guy said something along the lines of: "I couldn't help it she was wearing a tu-tu, she was so cute I couldn't help it".

It might have something to do with it, probably less than other things though.

*edit*
I do not think in my professor case that clothes was actually a huge factor. I suspect that the criminal, being in the psychological state he was in, probably thought that saying that she was in a tu-tu would somehow excuse him of his crime. I also do not think wearing a tu-tu could have been the main trigger for the outburst, the man clearly had intentional sexual aggression against young children, something as small as asking where the bathroom is could have set it off.




so asking where the bathroom is could have set it off but the clothes... no way.
he claimed it was the clothes but youre right, hes a sexual predetor and anything could have set it off. in this case it was the tu tu.
why is that so hard to believe? why do you think that leaves the female at fault? why do you think that hints at anything but a sick individual who needs to be locked up for life?
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Posted 6/12/13 , edited 6/12/13
I don't know where those accustions are coming from in your questions, but what I'm trying to say is that the deciding factor for rape is left largely up to the rapist discretion and their fancy

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M / chicagoland
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Posted 6/12/13
I agree with you completely.
And i wasnt necessarily accusing you as i was those who have alresdy stated that admitting clothing migjt be a factor is the same ss blaming women for being raped.

If i wear the wrong color hoody in the ghetto and get shot for it, its not my fault any more than it is a womans fault for being raped
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