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Rape-- Does the way you dress have nothing to do with it?
Aryth 
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Posted 6/12/13 , edited 6/12/13

VeniVidiVici- wrote:This topic is wether dressing DOES have to do with rape.


This is the major issue here, and I feel that this debate has derailed a little bit. This isn't about justification of rape, but rather a discussion of the parameters that might affect the likelihood of rape to occur relative to the victim.

There is no question that dress affects perception. Even subconsciously, we make judgments about people based solely on how they appear. Rape, on its own is a psychological phenomenon that finds its sole cause in some problem in the mind. However, just because the attackers are responsible for the rape, doesn't mean that they didn't take anything into account when they chose their victim. On the general scale, psychologists and sociologists are still debating about WHY people rape others, but that does not mean that we cannot examine parameters that may have an impact on how a victim is selected.

Like most crimes, a majority of victims know their attackers. This, alone, does not rule out the possibility that clothing choice affects likelihood of being raped.

Point 1: Women and Men evaluate clothing cues differently. This is a point that has been studied since the early 60's. Males were more likely to rate women as sexy than women were to rate men as sexy. And the more revealing the clothing was, the higher the ratings were. A study in 1987 that appeared in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology went on to show that men rated women based on their sexual traits regardless of the gender of their partner, and that clothes affected how pronounced these traits were and thus affected their ratings. This means that the clothing that women wear can have an affect of how "sexy" men believe they are. This can have an impact on the choice of a victim, even if the attacker does not admit it or does not remember what it was that the victim was wearing, even when the victim knows the attacker.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1559-1816.1987.tb00304.x/abstract

Point 2: Clothing doesn't just tell men about how "sexual" you are, but also gives clues about other things like vulnerability, desire, and perceived willingness. In a study published in the Psychology journal Sex Roles, Date Rape, clothing, and other perceptual cues were investigated. The study showed that perceptual cues can be provocative (through no fault of the victim) to men, and this can affect your likelihood of being a victim.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1018858313267

Point 3: A study published in the Journal of American College Health found that there ARE discriminatory factors that can identify a victim of some form of sexual abuse (including rape). Those were: a) number of different lifetime sexual partners, b) provocative dress, and c) alcohol use.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9519576

Again, this is not a victim shaming post, nor is this a 'the victim was asking for it' post. Men are known to be the easily provoked gender, made clear by centuries of written record and social conditioning. To say that clothing is a MAIN reason for rape is WRONG. To say that clothing is not a factor in rape is ALSO WRONG. There are many different parameters for the many different types of cases where rape is involved, and in some cases men are affected (even if it is subconscious) by the way some women dress. It's not an insult, it's not a 'be careful what you wear', but simply an argument.
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Posted 6/12/13
I suppose clothing could likely influence the odds of being raped, though I'd say anything short of a "rape me now" t-shirt could not be blamed on the victim.
Aryth 
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Posted 6/12/13

thekevin4 wrote:

I suppose clothing could likely influence the odds of being raped, though I'd say anything short of a "rape me now" t-shirt could not be blamed on the victim.


Again with blaming the victim...

This thread (although it has frequently tilted into 'blame the victim') is not about blaming victims. I (as did others) started it off by acknowledging that rape, in and of itself, is a psychological decision and a crime, both wholly committed by the attacker. However, this does not mean that the attackers are just raping random people. They make decisions (sometimes subconscious decisions) about rape, whether they be impulse or well thought out. One, ONLY ONE, parameter that MAY influence this decision is how the victim is dressed. It is not a fault of the victim. The attacker would likely rape someone else even if they didn't pick a scantily clad victim. It isn't about 'Clothes = whether or not you are raped', it's about whether or not clothes have anything to do with rape. The answer, simply, is YES.
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Posted 6/12/13

Aryth wrote:


thekevin4 wrote:

I suppose clothing could likely influence the odds of being raped, though I'd say anything short of a "rape me now" t-shirt could not be blamed on the victim.


Again with blaming the victim...

This thread (although it has frequently tilted into 'blame the victim') is not about blaming victims. I (as did others) started it off by acknowledging that rape, in and of itself, is a psychological decision and a crime, both wholly committed by the attacker. However, this does not mean that the attackers are just raping random people. They make decisions (sometimes subconscious decisions) about rape, whether they be impulse or well thought out. One, ONLY ONE, parameter that MAY influence this decision is how the victim is dressed. It is not a fault of the victim. The attacker would likely rape someone else even if they didn't pick a scantily clad victim. It isn't about 'Clothes = whether or not you are raped', it's about whether or not clothes have anything to do with rape. The answer, simply, is YES.


I never said the thread was about blaming victims, or for that matter that anyone in this thread was blaming the victims. I merely commented my opinion on the topic as a whole.
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Posted 6/12/13
My point of view:(what i beleive is better)
Ofcourse dressing has something to do with rape,the more you show your skin the more the chance of getting raped increases,

In some countries such as Arab women are to cover themselves up completely(to such an extent that only the face is visible) when they leave their homes so that they can be safe from any kind of harm and so that they would be considered women of respected family.

Resistance in accepting this by people:
Of course now some people will say that even those women who are completely covered,sometimes also become the victim of rapes, that's true but if we compare with those who cover themselves and those who don't, we see a big difference,

example:its plain common sense that there are a bunch of guys sitting in the park waiting for a girl to pass by so that they can hit on her,then 2 girls pass 1 who has covered herself in Hijab or Burkah(completely covering her self in such a way that only her face is visible,head is also covered and she is not wearing transluscent or transparent clothes) and the one who is wearing a t-shirt and a mini skirt,now i ask who will they hit on?

Other than that those women who will say that its unfair and we have our rights,we are equal to men and something like that then i'll just say that men and women although are equal are not completely the same specie,they have different mental and physical properties due to which they are equal but not the same

example: 2 students give 10 papers in their exams of 10 different subjects and both of them score 80%, but in depth we see that in 8 subjects they got the same numbers but in the 9nth subjects(lets say phsycology)student 1 got 100 marks where as student 2 got 60 marks,in the 10nth subject(lets say chemistry) student 1 got 60 marks and student 2 got 100,so we can say that they are equal because they got the same percentage of marks but in reality they are not completely same because student 1 is better in phsycology then student 2 and student 2 is better in chemistry then student 1, in a similar way men and women are equal.

Blame:
Now alot of people say 'women are to blame since they wear short clothes',but man is the one who stares at them then develops the motivation to rape,men should not look and women should not be dressed in a way that would drive too much attention from another men (especially in a way that would increase their sexual desires),ofcourse at house with brother,father, husband it is permitible to wear clothes that you think are very attractive and relatively less covered.
Therefore in my point of view the blame is for both,but a women should think that not all guys are nice and some might stare and get the urge to do something bad and might end up doing it which will not be a good end result so they should cover themselves up.
And men should not look so that the urge does not come.
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Posted 6/13/13

Aryth wrote:


VeniVidiVici- wrote:This topic is wether dressing DOES have to do with rape.


This is the major issue here, and I feel that this debate has derailed a little bit. This isn't about justification of rape, but rather a discussion of the parameters that might affect the likelihood of rape to occur relative to the victim.

There is no question that dress affects perception. Even subconsciously, we make judgments about people based solely on how they appear. Rape, on its own is a psychological phenomenon that finds its sole cause in some problem in the mind. However, just because the attackers are responsible for the rape, doesn't mean that they didn't take anything into account when they chose their victim. On the general scale, psychologists and sociologists are still debating about WHY people rape others, but that does not mean that we cannot examine parameters that may have an impact on how a victim is selected.

Like most crimes, a majority of victims know their attackers. This, alone, does not rule out the possibility that clothing choice affects likelihood of being raped.

Point 1: Women and Men evaluate clothing cues differently. This is a point that has been studied since the early 60's. Males were more likely to rate women as sexy than women were to rate men as sexy. And the more revealing the clothing was, the higher the ratings were. A study in 1987 that appeared in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology went on to show that men rated women based on their sexual traits regardless of the gender of their partner, and that clothes affected how pronounced these traits were and thus affected their ratings. This means that the clothing that women wear can have an affect of how "sexy" men believe they are. This can have an impact on the choice of a victim, even if the attacker does not admit it or does not remember what it was that the victim was wearing, even when the victim knows the attacker.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1559-1816.1987.tb00304.x/abstract

Point 2: Clothing doesn't just tell men about how "sexual" you are, but also gives clues about other things like vulnerability, desire, and perceived willingness. In a study published in the Psychology journal Sex Roles, Date Rape, clothing, and other perceptual cues were investigated. The study showed that perceptual cues can be provocative (through no fault of the victim) to men, and this can affect your likelihood of being a victim.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1018858313267

Point 3: A study published in the Journal of American College Health found that there ARE discriminatory factors that can identify a victim of some form of sexual abuse (including rape). Those were: a) number of different lifetime sexual partners, b) provocative dress, and c) alcohol use.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9519576

Again, this is not a victim shaming post, nor is this a 'the victim was asking for it' post. Men are known to be the easily provoked gender, made clear by centuries of written record and social conditioning. To say that clothing is a MAIN reason for rape is WRONG. To say that clothing is not a factor in rape is ALSO WRONG. There are many different parameters for the many different types of cases where rape is involved, and in some cases men are affected (even if it is subconscious) by the way some women dress. It's not an insult, it's not a 'be careful what you wear', but simply an argument.


Thank you. I should have clarified it more as to what sort of rape though, but yes you have nicely explained out the points I was trying to get out to others.

This was a reply to a woman (she made a point to claim dressing had nothing to do with rape) who claimed that no matter what she wore---even if she was naked, no one can touch her. I thought that was really funny at first, when I pointed out in reality, people won't debate about that when you're being hustled away.

Surprisingly though, alot of other women backed her views. Some people just don't seem to add in reality to their Utopian views.
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Posted 6/14/13


It doesn't matter what you wear, because all it takes is a single glance in their direction. Also, you are more likely to be raped my someone you know and trust. What you just typed is one of many misconceptions and attitudes about rape that is called "RAPE CULTURE" in feminism, which is a huge problem. It is what states that rape victims deserved their rape for various reasons (dress, partying, being too drunk), and states that men are uncontrollably lusty, rape-loving monsters with no self-control doing what is natural to them. And, if the rapist is a woman or the victim is a man it's, "Lol what rape? Women are victims, not men". It's insulting to both parties, perpetuates a problem, and allows perpetrators to walk away scot-free.

Now to read through the rest of the thread...
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Posted 6/14/13

What you just typed is one of many misconceptions and attitudes about rape that is called "RAPE CULTURE" in feminism, which is a huge problem. It is what states that rape victims deserved their rape for various reasons (dress, partying, being too drunk), and states that men are uncontrollably lusty, rape-loving monsters with no self-control doing what is natural to them.



i went ahead and bolded the problem with that thought.
feminism is like racism only with more emotional delusions and pms involved

and again, this isnt about blame. the fact that feminist cant discuss a topic without placing blame or crying about being blamed is proof enough they they are wrong.
Posted 6/14/13
I fucking think so, why? cuz guys get turned on easily. Especially the nasty pig ones who can't
hold themselves when they see a girls leg or a bit of their belly. Ugly or not doesn't matta as long as the thing holds
a vagina then rape thoughts are flying through those pigs head.. Apparently strip clubs ain't enough.

Anyways, same goes with girls .. raping guys and playing victim lmao. Ain't our world oh so sweet ;D
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Posted 6/15/13
Personally, I don't think so. I mean, sure, some clothes really turn a guy on but not to the point where they'd be willing to commit a crime just to take said clothing off the girl. There is clearly something wrong with you psychology if you feel the need to rape a girl because of a dress she is wearing or because of the skirt she has on is too short. Also, not every single rapist goes after a girl who is wearing that type of clothing (not all rapists have the same..preference).
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Posted 6/16/13

darkhunt333 wrote:

It sounds unfair for women. But I have to agree. A revealing dress can make a guy want to have sex to the point it becomes rape. Guys want to have kids with as many women as possible. Women want a man that can provide for a family. It's many years of evolution of guys leaving women after they get pregnant. Now we live in an age of declining populations in first world countries.



Such a touchy subject, but one that needs to be talked about more I think.

I'll have to disagree with this premise. A rapist isn't the type of person driven by sexual desire. In most cases a rapist is only interested in forcing his/her dominance over someone else. That is why many rapes happen in prison. What better way to say "I own you" then violating someones anus. It seems to me that rapist would rape someone regardless of what that person is wearing and that they don't rape someone on the basis of how hot they are but on how easy they are to overpower.

As for your evolution standpoint, while it is true that many species in the animal kingdom use rape as way of ensuring strong genes being successfully passed on, I'm not so sure that this is the model humans have used. I'm no evolutionist so I can't say for sure but the fact that we have emotions like love, and most people only mate with those they care for seems to indicate that our evolutionary path wasn't quite that violent. Though my romanticism of humanity could just be forcing me to think that we evolved in a much more noble way...
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Posted 6/16/13

swirly_commode wrote:


What you just typed is one of many misconceptions and attitudes about rape that is called "RAPE CULTURE" in feminism, which is a huge problem. It is what states that rape victims deserved their rape for various reasons (dress, partying, being too drunk), and states that men are uncontrollably lusty, rape-loving monsters with no self-control doing what is natural to them.



i went ahead and bolded the problem with that thought.
feminism is like racism only with more emotional delusions and pms involved

and again, this isnt about blame. the fact that feminist cant discuss a topic without placing blame or crying about being blamed is proof enough they they are wrong.


Sure, buddy. Your tinfoil-hat aside, I just can't take such a low percent as a strong "why you/I got raped" factor. Especially, when the type of dress isn't that specific at all and is just assumed to be slutty looking clothes. It could be any random manor of dress or article of clothing. So in my opinion, blaming the slutty dress of a person is just a poor, uneducated, knee-jerk, generalized assumption of the victim's situation.
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Posted 6/16/13
An analogy: A robber is more likely to break into a house with minimal security. Will using good security features guarantee you will never get robbed? No. Will the lack of security ensure that you will get robbed? No. Will people only resort to robbing as a means to obtain valuables? No. Will people all work fairly in order to earn a living? No. Complicated? Yes. Whether you choose to fortify your home with steel walls and titanium doors or choose to keep your wealth in a house of straw, you can't guarantee that you will be robbed or that you will never be robbed. Your control of the situation is limited only to what you choose to do yourself.

The homeowner can do whatever he or she wants with the house, but cannot be blamed for the action of a robber so long as the homeowner does not actually give permission for another to enter and remove valuables.

Some neighborhoods are friendly and safe, and people can leave their doors unlocked without fear of theft. Other neighborhoods are so shady that one must install gates, multiple locks, and barred windows with plate glass to sleep soundly at night.

Robber = Rapist or would-be rapist
Homeowner = Victim or would-be victim
Neighborhood = Environment (both social and physical)
Security measures = Clothes and conduct

It might be unwise to not lock your door and leave your windows open in a bad part of town, but you did not actively do anything to cause your own misery. It's only your fault that you didn't secure your things, but it isn't your fault that someone else stole them. Another person is violating your rights. In the best case scenario, everyone respects everyone else, but that is obviously never going to happen. That is why preventative measures exists in the first place.
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Posted 6/22/13
I dress very modestly, so I'm not just defending myself or anything, but I really think if a guy rapes someone and then blames them for what they were wearing (or society blames them), that's really fucked up.
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