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Post Reply Snape Hate
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Posted 6/9/13
So a friend of mine has shown me that on online communities Severus Snape from the Harry Potter series is a fan favorite for many and is kind of completely excused for being a jerk. I know the here on CR we are all about anime and drama, but I was wondering if anyone had an opinion of Sanpe

Personally I hate when people say that Sanpe is such a great character and that he's the greatest hero in the story. I admit that yes Snape had every reason to hate James Potter, heck if we look at the flashbacks James said the first insult between them ever. But even if Harry looked exactly like James, and he was James' son that doesn't excuse tormenting a 11 year old kid, how low can you get?
Then there's the whole thing with Snape and Lily. Ok yes Lily and Snape were best friends, and yes Snape may have loved Lily at least in some way, but then people say that Lily was so terrible for ending her friendship with Snape. We know that Snape had turned to the dark arts before the fiasco with calling Lily mudblood, and she had talked to him about before but he kept going down the wrong path, and Lily wasn't interested in that path.

Well those are my personal thoughts on the matter, anyone else want to share?
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28 / F / California
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Posted 6/10/13
Sorry, I love Snape hehe..He was my favorite adult character in the series. He was my guilty pleasure at first because I didn't understand why I liked him when he appeared to be such a cold hearted bully. I was a Gryffindor fan all the way, yet I couldn't shake the feeling that there was more than met the eye about him. Then Half Blood Prince came out and after I read it I was really confused by his actions, and thought I was wrong about him the whole time.So It was gratifying when Deathly Hallows came out to finally read about his memories, and why he acted the way he did, even though it wasn't an excuse it was at least an explanation.

He definitely was in love with Lily, which was amazing in itself that he had the capability to show any affection to anyone after the type of childhood he had and felt horrible that he inadvertently played a role in her demise even though he tried to protect her.
The guy was brave to be a double agent the whole time, pretending to swear his allegiance to Voldemort but in reality his loyalties were to Dumbledore and Lily. He may not have possessed the likeable qualities of a hero, but he still was one in my book.
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33 / M / somewhere that is...
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Posted 6/10/13
He acts like that toward Harry because he has to. First he is supposed to be on Voldemort's side, so if he was too buddy buddy with Harry it would look very wrong to the other Death Eaters. Second he knew Voldemort would be returning and Harry would be his primary target when he did. Thus almost everything he does is meant to 1: Keep his cover, 2: Toughen Harry up so he has a fighting chance, and 3: also spy and keep an eye on Harry without raising suspicion that he is protecting him.

For the most part it was all an act.
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Posted 6/10/13
Ok admit ably I wouldn't expect Snape after his past to be like a godfather to Harry

That said, acting like a normal teacher would have kept his cover enough. In his memories Snape is ranting to Dumbledore that harry is an egocentric kid who struts around "happy" that he's famous and thinks that he is above the rules.
Harry hates that he's famous for no reason besides surviving in the attack that killed his parents, and the majority of the that Harry breaks the rules it is because he has a job to do, there may be a few times he did it for the fun of it but honestly can any of us say that we have never broken any rules?

Toughening him up, I believe it would have been much more effective to teach Harry things rather than bully him and try to convince him that his father was as evil as Voldemort (an expression). Snape for example in occulmency did not teach Harry much, instead he only repeatedly told him to clear his mind, gave no explanation or advice on how to do that. Oh and lets not forget that the only other thing he did there was tease/taunt Harry over his past memories like being chased up a tree by a bulldog...... admit ably however for some reason (in the movies) I find the part where in his memories Harry is hugging Sirius and suddenly Snape is behind them saying "I might vomit"
Snape didn't do much to help Harry, even if he was trying to toughen him up he should have seen that he was breaking him down.

Ok rants aside I am not trying to hate on anyones opinions here, if anything I would just like to sit back relax and have a debate, debates are so much fun.
Posted 6/22/13 , edited 6/22/13
What a great love story -wipes tears-
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Posted 6/22/13
lol i think snape was alright.
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Posted 6/27/13 , edited 6/27/13
No, I detest Snape for being a jerk to Harry. I don't think anything about Snape's past or his affection for Lily excuses that kind of treatment of an innocent boy. Especially when his life's mission is apparently to protect Harry from all who would cause him harm, he thinks he should make the boy hate him as much as possible? Seems rather counter-intuitive if you ask me.
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Posted 8/11/13
Snape acted that way towards Harry because he should. He probably had the foresight that Voldemort will try to access Harry's mind because of this link between them. If Harry knew that Snape was only acting, then Voldemort will find out and they would not have succeeded in defeating him.

Great love story. I tear up every time I see that scene in the last film, where Snape was crying so hard while he was holding Lily's dead body.
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F / Sasebo, Nagasaki-shi
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Posted 9/22/13

Karkarov wrote:

He acts like that toward Harry because he has to. First he is supposed to be on Voldemort's side, so if he was too buddy buddy with Harry it would look very wrong to the other Death Eaters. Second he knew Voldemort would be returning and Harry would be his primary target when he did. Thus almost everything he does is meant to 1: Keep his cover, 2: Toughen Harry up so he has a fighting chance, and 3: also spy and keep an eye on Harry without raising suspicion that he is protecting him.

For the most part it was all an act.


I, too, agree with this statement.. since it pretty much covers the basics of his character development.

Also, you have to understand that for Snape, seeing Harry Potter 'strutting around' (even if all he is really doing is walking to class) is a constant reminder of missed opportunities and relationships with people. Perhaps he did it to himself, but it would still be painful to have to be reminded of of it every single day when you see the offspring of the woman you used to be friends with and whom you loved (and who abandoned you for whatever reason) as well as that of your childhood nemesis.

I think he has every reason to be bitter.

And honestly, the reason I was such a fan of Snape and why he was my favorite character is because out of the majority of the characters, he was the only one who really had depth and character development throughout the series. The three protagonists were pretty much par for course teenagers.. filled with angst and conspiracy theories about various people.. and often times did get away with a lot that you know the other students (had they chosen the same path) would not have been allowed to get away with.
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20 / F / Winding Circle
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Posted 9/25/13
Alright... here's my opinion. Be warned, it'll be a nice rant and it will ramble and go off on tangents, but I promise I'll get to the point eventually. It's just that this debate gets me so angry sometimes, though I bottle it up and ignore it and generally don't add my opinion... though of course that resulted in me blowing up upon seeing some of these opinions... I have to say, my boyfriend's face was hilarious though. Made it worth it.

Okay so... Snape. The most complex character in Harry Potter... I won't say he's the most developed, I'd say Harry is (for reasons I won't share here), but he is definitely complex. But I dislike him. With a passion.

There are so many many reasons for it... Starting with the issue of him being 'nice' to Harry.

Oh come on people, just because he's on Voldemort's side doesn't mean he has to be mean to Harry or any of the non-Slytherin students! He could've simply spun it like "I had no choice but to be nice to the brat. Dumbledore would've fired me, the fool, if I did not rein in my temper *sneer*" Problem solved. On top of that, the issue isn't just that he was mean to Harry, but to EVERY student not in Slytherin.

He's such a terrible teacher. And don't say otherwise. First class: The speech was nice until he called them dunderheads, which encourages them to believe they won't succeed! What kind of teacher does that?

Then he calls on Harry and asks him questions. Okay reasonable... but do we know what part of the curriculum they're from? We know they didn't cover the Draught of Living Death until 6th year. Was it really reasonable to ask a new student that on the first day? And Harry had read all of his textbooks even. Not everyone can remember everything they read.

Then, he doesn't bother teaching them at all. No instruction on how to cut, skin, stew, or anything with the ingredients. They're 11 years old, it's highly unlikely that unless the student had a tutor they'd been allowed to handle knives. So they'd know nothing about how to prepare the ingredients, especially the muggleborns! Then on top of that, he doesn't go over the instructions in detail. My AP physics teacher would go over every experiment with us to be sure we knew what we were doing and give us things to avoid and what could go wrong. Did Snape warn them about the dangers of doing it wrong? Nope. Oh you say he was mean to get them to listen? BS. He would've avoided more accidents if he explained the process at the very least. If he'd gone over why it was a bad idea to leave the cauldron on the fire when adding porcupine quills, I'm sure Neville would've found it easier to follow directions, especially if Snape told them that it would cause boils.

And his being mean I feel caused more problems in the end. Yes, strictness is good... but being mean? Bad idea. I doubt that Neville would've done so badly if Snape wasn't breathing down his neck the whole time. Being stressed and scared leads to more mistakes than knowing the dangers and being somewhat relaxed does. Even Harry thought he did better brewing without Snape... and he thought that just after finishing the OWL. Plus, what kind of teacher is a boggart for 13 year old? Face it, he's a great potions master, but a terrible teacher.

Then there's the disaster that was occlumency lessons. Seriously... first lesson. "CLEAR YOUR MIND LEGILIMENS" Wait... what? How is that supposed to help Harry? No instruction, no explanation, no time even for Harry to think. Have you ever tried to clear your own mind? No? Take a moment to try and think of nothing. No emotions, no thoughts... Did you succeed? I've only succeeded once in the years I've tried to meditate that way. And that was interestingly in a meditation lesson in my world religions class to teach us about how Buddhists meditate. It would take Harry a long time to figure it out, and Snape attacking his mind while he tried to do so just made it worse. It made Harry less likely to want to do occlumency, even with the benefits, because of the torture he went through each lesson. Personally, despite being female, I relate to Harry the most... I'm fairly emotional like him.. the best way for me to meditate is to go to what I've labeled my mindscape and try to sort through my memories, to throw away bad thoughts and other things like that... And it actually has helped me. Far more than trying to think of nothing ever did. Snape did nothing to teach Harry, he didn't even give him a book to read! At least if Harry had a book, his failure was his own fault. Oh he didn't try hard enough... right. What motivation did he have? Keeping Voldemort out? He didn't really see the need to you know, he didn't feel the urgency, and he was given the worst teach for it too.

So some of you apparently believe Snape was just trying to toughen him. In what world do you live in does Harry need Snape to add pressure? Take away Snape, and Harry had was already toughened by a lot. Emotionally and mentally abused by his relatives, physically by his cousin, and maybe by his uncle in some way... neglected, not given enough food, likely malnourished. And yet he survived until he was 11. He went into Gryffindor. Then he had to face a troll, cursed broomsticks, his greatest desire, and Quirrelmort by the end of his first year, not to mention everything else he faced by the time he defeated Voldemort for good. Harry didn't NEED to be toughened up! He needed information, to be taught, to be helped... He needed to be taught how to fight, how to think... and he wasn't. If Snape truly wanted to increase Harry's chance of survival, he should have taught Harry occlumency early on and then went on to teach him how to fight and do other essential things that would be necessary in the war. Like wards and all that.

And now onto what really bothers me about the Snape debate... finally. I understand Snape's character. I understand what he went through; I know it must've been tough on him. He's a complex character, and it does fascinate me. I can read fanfictions where Snape is good, and I can read them where he is evil. The good ones generally need him to at least admit he's wrong about Harry and try to change and to help Harry.

What bothers me the most? Is how people use his love of Lily and his intentions and how he helped Harry to justify what he did. Yes, he is wonderfully complex, and yes in canon he was good in the end. But that does not justify his actions one iota for me.

First off, yes, I'm well aware he saved Harry multiple times throughout the years... but he NEVER gave Harry ANY reason to trust him. It was even to the point that 'never doubt authority' Hermione believed he was after the stone! And then there was that fiasco with Sirius. Harry had no reason to believe that Snape would actually listen. Yes, it's reasonable that Snape had to act like he didn't understand, but seriously? He had no way to communicate that he would check to Harry? He couldn't have waited and then told Harry or something? No he just had to let Harry think Sirius was in deep trouble.

I'm perfectly aware that he had reason to hate Sirius and James. They were bullies, although... from what we've seen... While yes they did bully him, Snape did seem to give what he got. But really? Petty revenge and taunting at times of war? He knew Sirius is not hte type of person to sit at the sidelines; that he hated being back at his childhood home. So of course he had to taunt him about being useless. Yes, Sirius going to the ministry was his own fault, but after being cooped up for so long, I don't blame him... especially when he had to deal with Snape taunting him!

Then there's his love for Lily. While I'm not convinced it's romantic love (He's obsessive and doesn't seem to want her to be happy, since she was happy with James and Harry, and he didn't let it go, he wanted both James and Harry to die. He even admitted it.), he did love her in some way.

So... he loved Lily so he protected the son he didn't want to protect because he looked so much like James. And bullied hte son. I don't think Lily would be happy with him. Yes, Snape has every right to be bitter but that does NOT justify the amount of bullying he heaped on Harry. That does NOT justify the way he acted in the least. Just because someone went through a lot does not mean that they should become a bully. Yes, it is understandable that he is the way he is. But in no way does that mean he should be allowed to act the way he does! He's so immature.

In the end he became what he apparently hated. He became a bully. And while Harry was his main victim, he also made Neville a victim and other students victims of his bitterness. He went from victim of bullying to the bully. How is that right? I don't believe in bullying in any form. And what's worse is it's an adult, a teacher, bullying the 11-18 year olds he's supposed to nurture and help grow!

I've seen people say 'oh don't judge him based on what he did as a teenager.' Have I done that here? I don't think I've mentioned how he acted as a teenager at all here. Of course, then those same people then go on to say that James was a terrible person... when we know he matured and likely would've become a great person, because all they know is what we saw through Snape's eyes of James... as a teenager.

Anyways... basically, if you've stuck with me this long... I don't mind Snape. He's a great complex character. I love how he can be twisted good or evil. What I don't like is his deplorable actions because he allowed his bitterness to consume him. What I hate is people defending his actions as a bully with how his love of Lily triumphs over that. He was a good character in the end, but I cannot condone the bullying he did. He should not have been so petty and childish.

And rant over... finally. *collapses*
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Posted 10/9/13
Snape acted that means towards Harry as a result of he ought to. He most likely had the foresight that Voldemort can attempt to access Harry's mind owing to this link between them. If Harry knew that Snape was solely acting, then Voldemort can determine and that they wouldn't have succeeded in defeating him.in http://www.mmo2buy.com/
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Posted 10/13/13
Snape didn't know that Voldemort was coming back. He acted that way toward Harry because he hated Harry's father and Harry reminded Snape of James. Snape protected Harry because of his devotion to Lily, but he also hated Harry because he was the product of Lily and James' marriage. Harry sensed that Snape loathed him from the very first book, but he didn't understand it until the end.

Ouzoathena11 has some good insight on this, and I won't restate everything again.

Yeah, Snape ended up being a bitter old bully, but I loved him for it. The flawed characters are the best characters. No one wants to read about perfection. Perfection is dull.
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Posted 1/10/14
Snape had mixed feelings toward harry. He wanted to protect him and help him grow because of his mother. But seeing his father in harry made him resent him. You have to feel sorry for Snape but he was kinda jerk towards Harry and had only wanted to help him. Snape actually never did anything horrible. Sure he killed Dumbledoore but he asked snape to and dumbledoore was dying anyways. I for one feel sorry for him.
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Posted 3/24/14
Snape was always my favorite character. He's interesting and dark, and I think he's probably the deepest character in the series. Also, he was a puzzle, whereas the rest of the story was easy enough to figure out. Harry's actions were always predictable, because the story is the Hero's Journey, and therefore follows a certain pattern. Most of the supporting characters existed to fulfill certain narrative functions, like Hermione providing information about the world (for the reader and Harry). And I suppose because he works as an interesting foil to the messianic hero type that Harry is. Voldemort's complete evil is more like a force of nature than a human phenomena, and his utter sociopathy makes him unrelatable.

Snape is neither a good person, nor an evil person, and in a story about good triumphing over evil, his human conflictedness makes him compelling. The entire story, as a whole, displays certain aspects of the psyche, but Snape is interesting in that because he is very human, he acts in ways that are selfish and destructive, and also with incredible sacrifice and love. I suppose the other character I would pull out as being interestingly human is Ron, because he also is neither truly good or bad. He struggles with jealousy and inadequacy. But Ron is generally a child, and his struggles are never as terrible as Snape's.

I think when Snape bullies Neville, for example, that is terrible. He is not on the side of the good guys for a reason. But that does not take away from the fact that he is the most damaged character, and that he spends his entire life, he gives his life, trying to atone for what he had done. And when it comes right down to it, I'd rather have him on my side than Dumbledore, because he saw Harry as a person, rather than as a hero who must play his part.
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24 / M / The heart of Linc...
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Posted 5/27/14
Snape is one of the most interesting characters, he was persuaded to be evil since he was rejected by Lily for choosing james. As james bullied snape, he chose the only people who would befriend him, whom would go on to be fellow supporters of voldemort and his ideals aka mudbloods.

I also believe that despite his feelings for lily he couldn't face her when he had finally got friends/being accepted. Yet when lily's life was in danger, he went against everything he came to believe in order to save lily's family. He then felt ashamed and guilt ridden over the fact it was he who had informed voldemort of the prophecy. He had failed to save lily and thus betrayed not just lily but voldermort & his followers too. He was truly alone, truly on his own side.

He then saw harry grow up, looking and acting just like james, his bully who in his eye took lily! No wonder he made it hard for harry, because it was all he saw for years.
Alan rickman's performance was fantastic! Especially the final 3 films. I found it brilliant with snape killing dumbledore which was actually saving him from the inflection of the ring. It hardened harry into helping destroy the horcruxes. He in turn gives harry the truth of who/what he is. That Harry is a horcrux, that dumbledore planned on him dying in order to stop voldermort. That ironically the one who treated so kindly in 6 books/films, was the one who knew he'd be sacrificed and ensured it to happen.

Snape then sees the true harry, he is the image of james but he is more like lily and snape finally sees it clearer than the other characters but says just as they do, harry has lily's eyes.

As for the other students he bullies, it's because of his loneliness from betrayal, his guilt for lily and his enragement for harry being like james. He vents those flaws into causing suffering like a child, if he can't ever have it why should they have it. It's a very human reaction, one we all have felt, me more so than many. I sympathises with him in experience, why is it not fair? Why does one person get to have everything so positive and perfect, without any pain in their lives?
Yet the reality is that action only further damages the individual more while pushing others away. Forever closing the heart.

Ultimately though, it was the love for lily that kept him going, to help harry and even why he died. He was selfish and shortsighted for his own ends but he overcame that for his undying love, which may not have been returned, but transferred to another. One that he had to overcome distaste for, for lily's sake.
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