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Log Horizon and Sword Art Online - similar concept (or not?) Discuss
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Posted 10/13/13


beet the vandel buster, its world is really based upon an rpg style game. i think you would enjoy it.

ixion saga is something pretty different to mmo's, just so you know.

theres a few more anime i've watched that really gave me a feel for the mmo world but i can't think of it myself. im a pretty big fan of the .hack series.

o yea hunter x hunter greed island arc, which im sure you've seen is one of them.
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Posted 10/13/13 , edited 10/13/13

Arsenette wrote:

So I'm sill trying to figure out your statement of "those who hated SAO overhype LN".. because so far those who hated SAO are jumping into LN hoping it's the same so they can bitch about it too...

Alright, this might explain our different approaches to a degree. My impression is that people who felt let down by SAO are flocking to LH because they think it'll be like SAO without all the things they didn't like about SAO.

So, basically... countering that agenda is my agenda.

As far as my agenda goes.


Arsenette wrote:

So again.. 2nd episode in and those of us trying to enjoy the show and share the same enjoyment with others who enjoy it have to deal with those going "zomg this sucks".. if it sucks or it's not what people like I wish people would just keep their negativity to themselves. There's plenty on the menu for people to chose from. I wish they would be more considerate of those watching the show. It's not like the manga is going to magically change. It's not like the anime directors/writers are going to read it.. so who is the intended audience?

If anything I've said came across that way I apologize, it's never my intention to ruin someone's fun. But I did openly telegraph my intentions in the first line, so anyone who doesn't care to read my rants is welcome to pass them by wherever they appear. And I usually don't have a target audience in mind, beyond anyone who feels like reading my opinions. In this case, I'd just had that rant bubbling up for a couple days and this is where it ended up coming out.

I don't think LH sucks, I just think it's just as flawed as SAO. And people are welcome to like it regardless.

I plan to, at least. Although my frequent nitpickery might undermine that for myself.
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Posted 10/13/13 , edited 10/13/13
Hey folks, just discovered that this older thread was revived recently, so I've closed a new, similar thread comparing Log Horizon and SAO. If you posted there and want to restate any of what you wrote there, here, here's a link to that thread. I think folks made some great points there about both shows. But keep it civil of course.

/forumtopic-824249/log-horizon-showed-more-mmorpg-w-only-2-episodes-than-sao-did-w-25

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Posted 10/13/13
Log Horizon has a 80% change to become better than SAO and not to pick on SAO but it could have been better and you all should agree on at least that point. Log Horizon has a better chance depending on what happens in the next few episodes
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Posted 10/13/13
Perhaps a check-list is in order. This will help explain the nit and grits.

I am not in liberty to do-so because I have not been keeping up with LH.
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Posted 10/13/13
Actually the threads were not similar other than "SAO" and "LN"..

Thread 1 - "Zomg LN is SAO".. (then 20 people saying no and explaining exactly why)
Thread 2 - "What fate will LN have" (meaning how it will be perceived - better, worse, same fame as SAO)

So my answer was to thread 2 and not thread 1 since the questions were fundamentally different. Either way the thread is dead so I'll just stick to the discussion thread since the troll level has dropped (thank goodness) since they are not alike at all. Hope it stays that way.
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Posted 10/13/13 , edited 10/14/13
There was something about SAO that drew me in, but it's not really a genre that I tend to like so I'm not really rushing to watch this series. I think that when I find a lull later this month in my anime to-watch list I'll probably give it a go. I'd like to watch it in large chunks if anything as opposed to week by week.
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Posted 10/14/13 , edited 10/14/13

Insomnist wrote:

I think the people who hated SAO are generally responsible for overhyping Log Horizon, if anything. That was mostly the point of my post, that LH isn't as different compared to SAO as those with agendas would like to think. That said, LH isn't in my "love to hate" guilty pleasure category at all, although I'm not really a devoted fan either.


Couple of things. Log Horizon novel started in 2010, long before SAO anime.
Sure, the SAO novels likely had an influence on the premise, but that's about it.
I've read all the novels, so take this from me.

All this SAO THIS SAO THAT is going to feel extremely silly once you realize the only similarity ends at the premise.

Have you ever watched Twelve Kingdoms? (which, incidentally, was also a novel series animated on NHK)
Log Horizon shares more similarities with that series than SAO.

Log Horizon is about society building and politics. Yes, you're thinking right now, I'm insane. Bear with me.
Action adventuring pretty much gets put on the back burner in place for world building after the first few episodes.

It's completely incomparable with SAO (or .hack for that matter) once the story starts rolling.
And as a sandbox game lover, LH hit my chords much better than SAO.
Stories of kings and leaders are far more interesting than shining-knight-messiahs killing baddies.

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Posted 10/14/13 , edited 10/14/13
At this point I don't know. I thought SAO was great, good plot line, action, fights animation etc... However it could have been so much better that what it was in my eyes it was nearly ruined by some of the things they included so I just hope it dosn't happen with log horizon
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Posted 10/14/13 , edited 10/14/13
I Loved SOA so when i heard about log horizon i was really excited, so far im not liking it nearly as much, but ill watch the whole series and give it a fair chance.
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Posted 10/14/13
I don't think Log Horizon and Sword Art Online are that similar at all. The only similarity they have is about people being inside a game and even then Sword Art Online was VR so they wasn't really inside the game at all just stuck experiencing it through the headset. After that nothing is the same. Log Horizon focuses more on it being about a game and the world that game contains. Sword Art Online is about an online relationship and trying to escape this VR world they are trapped in.

They also have very different main characters. Shiroe is only as good as his party where as Kirito was this super solo player who could beat anything. Just very different approaches and very different styles. Kirito was like the cool attractive nerd who is strong and Shiroe well he's just a nerd who happens to be smart and know a lot about game programming and strategy.
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Posted 10/14/13

Insomnist wrote:

I am now going to offend everyone in this thread by bashing Log Horizon.

Seriously though, it's already off to a bad start.

We already have a Gary Stu/self-insert protagonist tragic hero (who just happens to be a strategist instead of a dual-wielding god) who gets helped along by a script which only pits his wits against idiots, and is surrounded by exactly: ONE token male character (who is quickly identified as not being a threat to the protagonist's inestimable greatness) and a PLETHORA of women who are doomed to failure if he doesn't step in and fix their problems.

(Seriously, count them: every interaction Shiroe has with a woman in the first two episodes involves her needing something from him, and his either declining because of his tragic past or heroically deigning to solve her problem).



What could've changed:

I dunno... a bunch of things, depending on how they wanted to build the story. I would've liked a larger initial party, with the tank and healer both being female along with Akatsuki. The healer would join in the second episode, and knows Shiroe from the Debauchery Tea Party and recognizes how his past experiences are impairing his judgement; she calls him on this early in the PvP battle and he switches out of a tactic which would've gotten them defeated otherwise.

This would make Shiroe fallible, but also more interesting since we can actually see an example of whatever happened in his past effecting the present. Instead of Shiroe just being tragic over a video game for no apparent reason.

It would also give him an identifiable character hurdle to overcome.

Without any particular adversary, they're also taking awhile to set one up. I assumed there'd be a mastermind character who'd get drawn into the mix after they defeated the PvP party who attacked them in the second episode, and it'd turn into a vendetta as Shiroe's party raced to Susukino with this PK guild dogging their footsteps at every turn. This could've been a high-stakes conflict in the middle of the wilderness except flying mounts pretty much kill that suspense.

Also, I'm flummoxed over why there isn't a death penalty. Even if it's just if you die three times within so many hours you gain a stacking debuff that penalizes your stats or inflicts you with negative levels for a period of time. So the PK guild would be slowly wearing down Shiroe's forces while they can sit anyone who's died. But then Shiroe's group could slip behind them and wipe out the wounded to even the playing field before slipping back into the wilderness.

They also could've limited the number of resurrections a healer could cast within a certain period, after which a player would have to respawn back at a major city, and they'd be lost to the group still fighting a retreat towards Susukino.


Log Horizon just lacks any form of tension or point to it, so while it's moderately entertaining (especially for an MMO gamer), I don't see it holding up. But then again, SAO didn't hold up either, so this is mostly about which one can fall the furthest before their second cour expires. I think it'd be pretty hard for Log Horizon to fall as far as SAO did, but SAO also had Kirito × Asuna for the audience to invest in, even if they did abuse it to no end in the second cour.

I'd give Log Horizon a 6/10 at this point, and I'll keep watching it because it's far from doomed. It could still go in interesting directions and do interesting things, I'm just keeping my expectations in check because it won't.

(I'll also keep watching it because I find it fun, but that's the same reason I watched SAO.)

I will now hold still so anyone who wants to throw a pie can do so; just don't put any rocks in them please.



So let me get this straight. You are complaining that there is only one token guy in the show and then you think what would make it better is MORE females? Mkay. A female Tank would look silly imho it's just far more entertaining when it's an over the top meathead and a healer would make his party overpowered. The lack of a healer is a weakness they need to overcome and makes it more interesting. When they have a healer the party becomes too perfect and not able to be put in any real danger. Yes the healer could be captured or beaten or whatever else but i kind of prefer the balance as it is.

I'm happy enough on them not focusing totally on PK by not making it a massive threat and having an evil nasty PK guild chase them forever. The threat of losing loot is enough. They could be defeated and lose an important item they need to somehow get back. The scary PK guild in SAO left a bad taste in my mouth since they were not used effectively in a show basically about how death is final so in this show where it isn't i'll just be glad if they don't overdo the PK thing.

The tension in this show right now isn't coming from some evil dude right now but from how people are reacting to the situation they are in. They are moving that along pretty slowly by highlighting how PK's are on the rise and how guild ranks are getting bigger. Some guilds will likely be playing for power sooner or later and they'll be caught between politics and war. Not every show needs "Mwahaha i am so evil i will be evil until the super hero defeats me!"

SAO didn't just abuse KiritoxAsuna in Season 2 it abused it across the board. Once that romance starts up the show becomes about nothing else. The main characters only goal in the series is to break out of the game and meet his online girlfriend in real life and make babies with her. Gets cock blocked when he does and leads into the season 2 abomination. I mean seriously past about episode 4 can you think of a storyline in the show that wasn't basically about Kirito and Asuna sucking face?
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Posted 10/14/13

aohige_cr wrote:


Insomnist wrote:

I think the people who hated SAO are generally responsible for overhyping Log Horizon, if anything. That was mostly the point of my post, that LH isn't as different compared to SAO as those with agendas would like to think. That said, LH isn't in my "love to hate" guilty pleasure category at all, although I'm not really a devoted fan either.

Couple of things. Log Horizon novel started in 2010, long before SAO anime.
Sure, the SAO novels likely had an influence on the premise, but that's about it.
I've read all the novels, so take this from me.

All this SAO THIS SAO THAT is going to feel extremely silly once you realize the only similarity ends at the premise.

I'm looking strictly at the chronology of their anime releases, since that's the only thing that matters for the majority of us. LH is coming out in the wake of SAO, so it's not irrational to expect people to react to it in that manner.

I am totally open to being proven wrong as the story progresses though; we are only two episodes in, to be fair.


aohige_cr wrote:

Have you ever watched Twelve Kingdoms? (which, incidentally, was also a novel series animated on NHK)
Log Horizon shares more similarities with that series than SAO.

I have not, although I'd like to sooner or later because it looks like it has a really sharp animation style for its age.


aohige_cr wrote:

Log Horizon is about society building and politics. Yes, you're thinking right now, I'm insane. Bear with me.
Action adventuring pretty much gets put on the back burner in place for world building after the first few episodes.

It's completely incomparable with SAO (or .hack for that matter) once the story starts rolling.
And as a sandbox game lover, LH hit my chords much better than SAO.
Stories of kings and leaders are far more interesting than shining-knight-messiahs killing baddies.

I don't think you're insane, I just had no reason to anticipate any of that from the first two episodes. I will keep watching though; and it's worth restating that just because I nitpick something doesn't mean I dislike it.

Although I'm used to these posts not winning me many friends.


MrMoondoggie wrote:

So let me get this straight. You are complaining that there is only one token guy in the show and then you think what would make it better is MORE females? Mkay. A female Tank would look silly imho it's just far more entertaining when it's an over the top meathead and a healer would make his party overpowered. The lack of a healer is a weakness they need to overcome and makes it more interesting. When they have a healer the party becomes too perfect and not able to be put in any real danger. Yes the healer could be captured or beaten or whatever else but i kind of prefer the balance as it is.

Not specifically, although I didn't explain that well; I'd prefer the gender differential to be about 50/50. And I mentioned tanking because I wanted to see a woman in a mostly self-reliant role as none of them have been so far.

And deciding to give Shiroe's team a healer can be countered by other decisions which challenge them despite it; as stories aren't written in a vacuum, we can assume adding factors will lead to other added balancing factors.


MrMoondoggie wrote:

I'm happy enough on them not focusing totally on PK by not making it a massive threat and having an evil nasty PK guild chase them forever. The threat of losing loot is enough. They could be defeated and lose an important item they need to somehow get back. The scary PK guild in SAO left a bad taste in my mouth since they were not used effectively in a show basically about how death is final so in this show where it isn't i'll just be glad if they don't overdo the PK thing.

Fair enough; and agreed about the PK guild in SAO not really going anywhere in the anime.


MrMoondoggie wrote:

The tension in this show right now isn't coming from some evil dude right now but from how people are reacting to the situation they are in. They are moving that along pretty slowly by highlighting how PK's are on the rise and how guild ranks are getting bigger. Some guilds will likely be playing for power sooner or later and they'll be caught between politics and war. Not every show needs "Mwahaha i am so evil i will be evil until the super hero defeats me!"

I think there should still be a focal point or figure who symbolizes that, though. Even if he's a minor villain who's dealt with quickly, within the first arc. Show us a personage who's abusing this system to defeat.

I assume that'll come sooner or later, especially with the hints about political intrigue in the future.

I'm just not sure why it hasn't been done already.


MrMoondoggie wrote:

SAO didn't just abuse KiritoxAsuna in Season 2 it abused it across the board. Once that romance starts up the show becomes about nothing else. The main characters only goal in the series is to break out of the game and meet his online girlfriend in real life and make babies with her. Gets cock blocked when he does and leads into the season 2 abomination. I mean seriously past about episode 4 can you think of a storyline in the show that wasn't basically about Kirito and Asuna sucking face?

It was a cute romantic fantasy in the first season; which was out of left field I'll admit, but I wouldn't say it was abused until the second season when things happened that would go in a spoiler tag at this point probably.

And to be fair, the romantic fantasy route is a direction I very much do not expect to see LH take.
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Posted 1/6/14
My opinion on SAO and Log Horizon is that they have the same concept but SAO has a much better delivery.
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Posted 1/6/14 , edited 1/6/14

SirJDog wrote:

My opinion on SAO and Log Horizon is that they have the same concept but SAO has a much better delivery.


Hmmm, perhaps on an introduction standpoint. SAO has one of the best opening episodes in anime, I mean, that was some action and exposition gold right there. It set up the setting and characters without alienating any viewers, it's a show I will highly recommend simply because of that.

But the core concepts? Totally different.

Going off what I've seen of both shows, I'll say the Name really says a lot.

SAO is about the world of Sword Art Online, and the very game they're playing. Everybody is trapped inside that world, and they could die at any moment. This gives the show a lot of tension and puts weight to the characters actions.

Log Horizon has no such tension, the characters are trapped and they have no idea what to do, but they're relatively safe and capable. This puts emphasis on the Characters over the Story. Log Horizon is not about escaping or fighting, but how multiple people would act in the situation presented.

SO, SAO is about the Story and World, while Log Horizon is about the People and their Interactions.

Hence one being the named after the Game, and the other being the name of a Guild within the game.
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