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Post Reply The "Anime is a Cartoon" Argument.
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27 / F / Southern Oregon
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Posted 7/25/13

KyuuA4 wrote:


eegah87 wrote:

Animation breaks down into many different categories, two of those categories are cartoons and anime.


Here's a key question. Can some anime actually be cartoons? If so, name examples.


No they can't they are two different categories of animation (please reread my earlier post). Some can try and imitate cartoons such as Panty and Stocking with Garter Belt, or Tiger and Bunny but ultimately they are still anime.

Many people mistakenly think that the only thing that separates anime and cartoons is the visual style, but there is more to it then that. It's the whole way the story is told that is the difference. Anime doesn't just look different from cartoons, it feels different. The timing, the framing, the lighting, the focus of the story, etc; along with the animation style separates cartoons from anime. This differences come from deep seeded cultural difference that can not be completely or fully understood by the other culture or replicated. This is why Panty and Stocking while looking very cartoonish still feels like an anime, and why Avatar while looking very animeish still feels like a cartoon.
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Posted 7/25/13

eegah87 wrote:
Anime doesn't just look different from cartoons, it feels different. The timing, the framing, the lighting, the focus of the story, etc; along with the animation style separates cartoons from anime. This differences come from deep seeded cultural difference that can not be completely or fully understood by the other culture or replicated. This is why Panty and Stocking while looking very cartoonish still feels like an anime, and why Avatar while looking very animeish still feels like a cartoon.


For the record, some anime actually feels cartoonish - namely Crayon Shin-chan, Pokemon, and even Hamtaro. Heck, much of the anime specifically aimed at children is definitely cartoonish. Where can a line like this be drawn... that's a matter to question.

Story writing is moot, because that style of writing can be found now in the likes of TV shows like Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, etc. US TV is finally realizing the value of a continued episode-by-episode story, rather than single episodic material commonly found in sitcoms. Additionally, you can take ANY kind of story and write it into an anime. On top of that, directors and production teams can take that story and do whatever they want with it. With RWBY, we will likely to see the same exact thing.

And culture has nothing to do with the difference, because story writing, production, and direction may not (but can be) influenced by cultural elements.
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27 / F / Southern Oregon
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Posted 7/25/13 , edited 7/25/13

KyuuA4 wrote:


eegah87 wrote:
Anime doesn't just look different from cartoons, it feels different. The timing, the framing, the lighting, the focus of the story, etc; along with the animation style separates cartoons from anime. This differences come from deep seeded cultural difference that can not be completely or fully understood by the other culture or replicated. This is why Panty and Stocking while looking very cartoonish still feels like an anime, and why Avatar while looking very animeish still feels like a cartoon.


For the record, some anime actually feels cartoonish - namely Crayon Shin-chan, Pokemon, and even Hamtaro. Heck, much of the anime specifically aimed at children is definitely cartoonish. Where can a line like this be drawn... that's a matter to question.

Story writing is moot, because that style of writing can be found now in the likes of TV shows like Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, etc. US TV is finally realizing the value of a continued episode-by-episode story, rather than single episodic material commonly found in sitcoms. Additionally, you can take ANY kind of story and write it into an anime. On top of that, directors and production teams can take that story and do whatever they want with it. With RWBY, we will likely to see the same exact thing.

And culture has nothing to do with the difference, because story writing, production, and direction may not (but can be) influenced by cultural elements.


1. No their is no question as the where the line is drawn. The reason why children anime feels cartoonish is because it has the same target audience as cartoons, but there are still fundamental differences that separate them.

2. Story writing isn't really as moot as you think. There is a different between Narrative mode (what it sounds like you are talking about) and writing style (which is what I was getting at in my post). Narrative mode is universal and isn't always influenced by culture (but it can be). Writing Style is very personal and is very influenced by culture.


The narrative mode (also known as the mode of narration) is the set of methods the author of a literary, theatrical, cinematic, or musical story uses to convey the plot to the audience. Narration, the process of presenting the narrative, occurs because of the narrative mode. It encompasses several overlapping areas, most importantly narrative point-of-view, which determines through whose perspective the story is viewed and narrative voice, which determines a set of consistent features regarding the way through which the story is communicated to the audience. Narrative mode is a literary element.



Writing style is the manner in which an author chooses to write to his or her audience. A style reveals both the writer's personality and voice, but it also shows how she or he perceives the audience, and chooses conceptual writing style which reveals those choices by which the writer may change the conceptual world of the overall character of the work. This might be done by a simple change of words; a syntactical structure, parsing prose, adding diction, and organizing figures of thought into usable frameworks.


3. Culture has everything to do with the difference.


Culture is the characteristics of a particular group of people, defined by everything from language, religion, cuisine, social habits, music and arts
.

Much like writing style is very personal and is influenced by a persons culture (and the culture of the people they are writing for) so is a persons directing style, or art style. Japanese culture is very different then American culture so of course anime is going to be written, and directed differently and ultimately feel different compared to cartoons. Now because we live in the modern age there is a cross pollination going on between American and Japanese culture, but if you go back a compare and contrast Western and Eastern ancient myths and legends the differences are larger. It is the fundamental differences in how the cultures developed that explain the difference in over all story telling, and thus explain why there is a categorical difference between anime and cartoons.
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Posted 7/25/13
Plot wise whoever, Anime has a track record of having a significant plot, where as with cartoons such as Dexter Labrotory, or Ed Edd and Eddy are usually all over the place in a certain respect. But not all western cartoons are like that, some have very good plot, such as Avatar the Last Airbender or Young Justice.

I think what it all comes down to is the culture of the too. Cartoons on the western side are widely evolving from my perspective from the days of Looney toons and tom and jerry. Just look at shows like Adventure Time, or animations on AdultSwims, that aren't just cartoons, their just shows that animated.

I think the only difference is culture, I feel like westerns animations have more variety to them though when compared with Eastern Anime.
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Posted 7/25/13 , edited 7/25/13
Well, since this argument has gone in the direction of culture, I will point out one thing about culture. It is a natural tendency for humans (yes, I dare say humans) to focus more and a lot more on the differences between cultures, rather than the similarities. As a consequence, this reinforces and propagates the notion that different aspects of cultures must remain separate.

Furthermore, culture has one interesting property of being able to "seep" from one group into another (and vice-versa). Often, this is done through cultural exchange, interaction, and media. With the help of the Internet, the ability for different cultures to interact is more fluid than ever.

Now, seven years ago, I had asked myself one question: "Can Americans make anime?" My response to that question is: "Why not?" As part of American culture, we live by the notion that people can do anything on the basis of time, talent, and resources.
* If people have the time, they can set out on a project to make anime.
* If people have the talent, they have the ability to make anime.
* If people have the resources, then they have the access to the people and equipment to do just that.

By making anime, I am thinking along the lines of producing commercial work. In other words, can Americans make anime with the intent of making money? For a long time, Avatar the Last Airbender has often been brought up into the conversation, asking whether or not it is anime. Many say that it is not, and I actually support that. Now, we have RWBY, where the creator himself declares and insists his product as an anime.

It takes a set of unwritten rules, documented techniques, and skill to properly design an anime character (and ultimately animating them); and these skills can be learned by anyone on the planet. It is these aspects of anime related culture than can be shared and cross national borders. Hopefully, some good anime work can be produced based on local cultures; and ultimately, we see greater variety from the anime medium as a whole. Unfortunately, American skill with developing anime-styled work is not yet up to par with Japanese studios; but give it time.

Finally, with regards to story writing, it is not a determinant on whether something is an "anime or not". You can port ANY story into a medium. In addition, story writers can use whatever cultural influences they choose. This is especially true in America, where we actually boast ourselves as a "melting pot" of many different cultures. For example, Baccano is an anime without any sort of Japanese cultural reference. In fact, the setting for this series involves the Mayflower and continues onward into 19th century America. Here, Japanese cultural references are not required.

So, as a result, this limits my argument to the visualization techniques used for anime.
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Posted 7/25/13
i think i kinda agree by saying anime is a "cartoon"

i mean my friend asked me what anime was and im like uhhhhh
its not a cartoon, but a Japanese cartoon O.O
some ppl say they dont like ppl that calls anime "cartoon"
then what do we call anime? O.O?
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Posted 7/25/13
Anime is a cartoon *q*
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Posted 7/25/13
Well I managed to learn about this today:
http://anime.smithmicro.com/

With that software, amateurs can proceed to animate their own drawings -- that includes fan artists, who look to draw anime-style. All Westerners have to do is saturate the Internet with their own original work.
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Posted 10/12/13
Well cartons normally have a drink instead.
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Posted 10/12/13
Well the original Thundercats was Japanese from what I've read, so how does that work, since it's normally considered a western show.
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Posted 10/12/13

asdffdse wrote:

Well the original Thundercats was Japanese from what I've read, so how does that work, since it's normally considered a western show.


I think that was written by Americans, and the animation was outsourced to Japan.
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Posted 10/12/13
Also I think Samurai jack was made in America and then shown in Japan, though I'm not sure about that one. Makes you wonder what exactly anime is sometimes.
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Posted 10/12/13
An anime is a cartoon, but a cartoon is not anime. Because anime is the strictly Japanese shortening of the foreign word animation, then that necessarily means that it is Japanese. Unless it in some way is related to Japan in it's origins, as in originally being in Japanese, being produced in Japan, etc.
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Posted 10/12/13
Anime (jp) Any animation origin does not matter sponge bob lion king you name it is all anime
Anime (eng) A Japanese animation. Must be from japan, if sponge bob was made in japan it would be an anime.

Is anime a cartoon?

cartoon: A drawing depicting a humorous situation "humorous or satirical drawings" "A ridiculously oversimplified or stereotypical representation"

Is anime this? uh yeah?

Anime (eng) definition says it's only req is to be from japan. So if it is from japan and "humorous or satirical' or is "A ridiculously oversimplified or stereotypical representation" it is a cartoon. I mean hetalia is pretty cartoony for sure, it is a parody of different countries show as different characters, can't get more cartoonish than that. "A ridiculously stereotypical representation" the definition of cartoon. hetalia really nails that on the head.

Cartoon has silly attached to it so I think some anime might be able to get away with saying it isn't. but like most of it is.
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Posted 10/12/13
I think some people just like to overthink simple terms. I think the vast majority of people call Japanese cartoons "anime" as a matter of convenience. I don't even think it's entirely dependent on style or content either. Yeah it's probably fair to say that it's more common and acceptable for anime to have adult themes and such, but I don't think that's a specific feature of anime. There's plenty of shows in Japan that are juvenile, made for kids, don't contain plot arcs, etc, but we would still call them anime in pretty much all cases. Likewise, despite all the debate about whether Avatar is anime or not, the majority of people (IE, the people who don't visit these boards) probably just think of it as an especially high quality cartoon.

So yeah, I think people are just overthinking the definition of anime. Ultimately all it means, to a western audience, is a cartoon made in Japan, although you can certainly argue that there are certain stylistic trappings associated with anime (Further complicated by the simple fact that not all anime necessarily sticks to these trappings, similar to how not all cartoons are the same stylistically.)

I don't think there's any reason to debate it so thoroughly either. All it is, is a label to make identifying things easier. Most people who aren't living under a rock or 80+ years old will know what you mean when you say anime.
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