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Post Reply Do Artificially Intelligent robots deserve inalienable rights?
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Posted 6/28/13
With the ever-increasing presence of artificial intelligence in our lives, it is important to discuss relevant matters that will have a large impact on our future. As the law stands today: Humans can marry humans within a state's determined age. Humans are allowed life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Not if, but WHEN robots reach a point of also seeking these things do we allow it?
How would their rights compare or conflict with ours?
Do you feel that we should muscle out intelligence other than our own?
If we program a robot to feel pain will we accept and allow the whole spectrum of emotion? Is that cruel?
Can a human and robot marry? If so, do we have any anatomical, emotional, or intelligence criteria?

Isaac Asimov has three rules for robots. Do these rules still apply?

The Three Laws are:
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.

I'm also throwing these questions out so people begin to digest the possibilities. I would prefer our government and the people it protects to not be caught off-guard when the subject of this discussion is no longer classified under fiction.

Feel free to tackle all or some of the questions...or just glean from this whatever you please. Just remember that someday this discussion will inevitably demand our consideration whether you choose to address it now or not.
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Posted 6/28/13 , edited 6/28/13
humans can't stand being in the presence of any intelligence other than their own kind. it's going to turn into the matrix at this rate
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Posted 6/28/13 , edited 6/28/13
Imagening an A.I. at the same level as the human intellect is kind of baffling to me and hard to understand. I am however aware that it will most likely happen, wheather I "get it" or not.

1. And when that happens... sure. If an artificial intelligence becomes so intelligent that it can actually think, then I think it would be inhumane to deny them those rights.

2. I don't know if their rights would conflict with ours at all, so long as we go by the "equal rights" principle. Unless of course special needs of some sort arise. But that is an issue that, as far as I can see, can't really be addressed until we actually get there and know what that will actually be specifically.

3. Do you mean as in "eradicate" it? If so, then no. Not at all. I believe that in the end, more intelligence will be beneficial for us all. We know that dolphins are intelligent and have their own language. If we could understand them, surely it would be enriching to us all due to all the increased knowledge and understanding that we would gain from it.
So long as we don't get into the whole "Terminator" scenario, which sadly is a quite likely possibility. If so happens, I hope the intelligence will allow us to evolve with it. As cyborgs if necessary.

4. On one hand, Pain could seem cruel. On the other hand, if robots do evolve into their own intelligent "species", then it would be smart to make them as similar to us as possible, to make it easier for them to empathize with humans, and thus hopefully reducing the possibility of a very grim future for humanity.

5. If robots truly are self thinking, self concious, intelligent beings, then I see no reason as to why not. I don't see what criterias would be necessary. Do you have anyhing in mind?


As for Isaac Asimov's rules:
1. Yes, I believe it should. Just as it apply for humans towards each other. It should also apply for humans towards robots, as it does towards animals.
2. If the robots are truly sentient, then no. It would be slavery.
3. As far as the first law goes, it is generally accepted for one human to harm another if done in self defense. I see no reason why that should be any different for any other sentient being.
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Posted 6/28/13
the discussion should begin with... at what point do we decide to classify an object as sentient.
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Posted 6/28/13 , edited 6/28/13

Syndicaidramon wrote:

Imagening an A.I. at the same level as the human intellect is kind of baffling to me and hard to understand. I am however aware that it will most likely happen, wheather I "get it" or not.

1. And when that happens... sure. If an artificial intelligence becomes so intelligent that it can actually think, then I think it would be inhumane to deny them those rights.

2. I don't know if their rights would conflict with ours at all, so long as we go by the "equal rights" principle. Unless of course special needs of some sort arise. But that is an issue that, as far as I can see, can't really be addressed until we actually get there and know what that will actually be specifically.

3. Do you mean as in "eradicate" it? If so, then no. Not at all. I believe that in the end, more intelligence will be beneficial for us all. We know that dolphins are intelligent and have their own language. If we could understand them, surely it would be enriching to us all due to all the increased knowledge and understanding that we would gain from it.
So long as we don't get into the whole "Terminator" scenario, which sadly is a quite likely possibility. If so happens, I hope the intelligence will allow us to evolve with it. As cyborgs if necessary.

4. On one hand, Pain could seem cruel. On the other hand, if robots do evolve into their own intelligent "species", then it would be smart to make them as similar to us as possible, to make it easier for them to empathize with humans, and thus hopefully reducing the possibility of a very grim future for humanity.

5. If robots truly are self thinking, self concious, intelligent beings, then I see no reason as to why not. I don't see what criterias would be necessary. Do you have anyhing in mind?


As for Isaac Asimov's rules:
1. Yes, I believe it should. Just as it apply for humans towards each other. It should also apply for humans towards robots, as it does towards animals.
2. If the robots are truly sentient, then no. It would be slavery.
3. As far as the first law goes, it is generally accepted for one human to harm another if done in self defense. I see no reason why that should be any different for any other sentient being.


In response to your #5 entry Syndicaidramon... Let us say that Artificial intelligence progresses to the point that almost any complex device possesses the ability to have artificial intelligence. That intelligence may or may not come with the urge to communicate with others and to be loved by others...These devices can be anything from a simple microwave to a supercomputer at a university. Would we, as humans who are keen on imitation, expect that a human cannot marry a toaster or do we allow it if both parties desire such a thing?

To further along the discussion, would it be absurd that perhaps the next step in evolution for us was to be the robots we created? What if the next run of our progress was creating the machines that will eventually replace us? With intelligence and the ability to calculate so much faster than humans it is very likely that we become the obsolete machinery when the ball of progress begins to roll against us.

The ability to think in abstraction gives us an edge. The ability to heal and replicate without a third party is good...but how long do we expect the tools we've created to no longer need us?

>>CSGod, I would classify a machine as sentient when the following principles are met:
1. The machine is self-aware and seeks self-preservation (Simple enough, that can be programmed to some extent)
2. Abstraction can be made with little to no outside interference (Can it make a pattern from chaos, can it read between the lines?)
3. The machine can make choices against what they are designed for in light of new, possibly abstract information
4. The machine possesses a truly random function set and can no longer be completely predictable
5. The intelligence the machine possesses can be transferred to other devices, serving as a primitive form of reproduction

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly:
6. The machine demonstrates enough human characteristics that it can no longer be considered merely a tool. In other words, it can fool any of us into believing that it is human or possesses human reasoning.

Intelligence is the ability to not only acquire knowledge but to apply it as well. The application of this knowledge as living things do is a great challenge for AI.
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Posted 6/28/13
No. Because AI humanoid robots will never have the same qualities as a human. Yes they can do complex mathematical equations in 1 second and be able to follow voice commands...

...but they're not going to be able to read a human's body language. You know when you talk to a person and they pretend to be happy, but sometimes you can see past that? You know that they're actually sad on the inside? How will they program a robot to be able to do that?

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Posted 6/28/13
Its not difficult, actually. People pretend and lie and do horrible things that can be detected by machines. Lie detectors, pheromone detectors, eye movements, etc. can all yield information. Body language is just another language that would have to be programmed. As far as seeing past things...its a simple measurement of body language vs verbal language. The higher the possibility the better. Also, a machine may in the future be able to access many things about us from the internet or whatever they call it then and can decipher what we intend to do with startling accuracy.

I feel that one of the biggest problems for discussing AI is that many will not believe it is possible until they are face to face with it.
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Posted 6/28/13

GayAsianBoy wrote:

No. Because AI humanoid robots will never have the same qualities as a human. Yes they can do complex mathematical equations in 1 second and be able to follow voice commands...

...but they're not going to be able to read a human's body language. You know when you talk to a person and they pretend to be happy, but sometimes you can see past that? You know that they're actually sad on the inside? How will they program a robot to be able to do that?



better do a little homework before making those remarks today in Japan You can find robots able to judge a persons mood. And even blend in with people wile holding a conversation. They look human.

Computers can easily be program to understand emotions, and even spot them. Hell the human is program to react to situations do to there up bringing. So in a way emotions is nothing more than a programed response. At that a human reaction will not be the same as each other. Because it matters how they are programed. As for me wen a friend dies I don't get emotional over it, others cry like a little baby. are brains are computers nothing more.
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Posted 6/28/13 , edited 6/28/13

Ashcrown wrote:

Its not difficult, actually. People pretend and lie and do horrible things that can be detected by machines. Lie detectors, pheromone detectors, eye movements, etc. can all yield information. Body language is just another language that would have to be programmed. As far as seeing past things...its a simple measurement of body language vs verbal language. The higher the possibility the better. Also, a machine may in the future be able to access many things about us from the internet or whatever they call it then and can decipher what we intend to do with startling accuracy.

I feel that one of the biggest problems for discussing AI is that many will not believe it is possible until they are face to face with it.


It is difficult.

Lie detectors are not even good example of machines being able to detect human emotions. Lie detectors aren't even reliable in the first place. And it's limited because the questions asked have to be replied with a yes or no answer.

What I talked about in my first post is actually human "intuition". For example, when a baby cries, even humans can't fathom the reason why they cry, yet a mother's intuition will tell her what to do when a baby cries. I don't see how AI will be able to do that. Thus my point, it can't have the same qualities as humans.


I have no doubt that AI will exist, because some human qualities can be programmed, but not all.



Edit: I have no doubt that AI robots can be the best soldiers, scientist, labourers, mathematicians... but I highly doubt they'll be able to be the best mothers, best friends or romantic lover... which was discussed in your first post...
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Posted 6/29/13


I invite you peruse a similar CR forum on this topic, though now closed, for it's hopefully insightful content. It started almost 4 yrs. ago, & progressed for just shy of 2 yrs.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-554432/the-three-laws-of-robotics-and-artificial-intelligence#27346132

I am truly fascinated with the subject of all that is & will be robotic, but since I already made many a post to the other thread, I'll just keep an eye on this one to see where it goes .
Guess I don't want to repeat myself - mostly 'cause I'm lazy.
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Posted 6/29/13
So just to throw this out here, but the age of AIs started a long time ago:

http://i.imgur.com/9G6dQZn.jpg
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Posted 6/29/13
AI has been around for quite some time. There are animatronics that function and learn how to interact with objects. There are AI programs gathering layers of understanding. Fuzzy logic, deep learning, artificial neural networks, and pattern recognition are not new concepts by technological standpoints.
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Posted 6/30/13
BTW, link is dead farm bird. I made sure to look at all current topics before posting. I don't mind reviving an old topic. However, if all you want to do is go gravedigging without even throwing your shovel into the discussion I would appreciate you staying on the other side of the iron fence. If you want to join in without dead links you are more than welcome. I did chuckle though..."Here is a 4 year old link on a subject that has evolved light years sine then." Classic,literally.
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Posted 7/1/13

GayAsianBoy wrote:


Ashcrown wrote:

Its not difficult, actually. People pretend and lie and do horrible things that can be detected by machines. Lie detectors, pheromone detectors, eye movements, etc. can all yield information. Body language is just another language that would have to be programmed. As far as seeing past things...its a simple measurement of body language vs verbal language. The higher the possibility the better. Also, a machine may in the future be able to access many things about us from the internet or whatever they call it then and can decipher what we intend to do with startling accuracy.

I feel that one of the biggest problems for discussing AI is that many will not believe it is possible until they are face to face with it.


It is difficult.

Lie detectors are not even good example of machines being able to detect human emotions. Lie detectors aren't even reliable in the first place. And it's limited because the questions asked have to be replied with a yes or no answer.

What I talked about in my first post is actually human "intuition". For example, when a baby cries, even humans can't fathom the reason why they cry, yet a mother's intuition will tell her what to do when a baby cries. I don't see how AI will be able to do that. Thus my point, it can't have the same qualities as humans.


I have no doubt that AI will exist, because some human qualities can be programmed, but not all.



Edit: I have no doubt that AI robots can be the best soldiers, scientist, labourers, mathematicians... but I highly doubt they'll be able to be the best mothers, best friends or romantic lover... which was discussed in your first post...


I find it funny that you say that you dont doubt that AI will exist. It already does exist. It may be in its infancy but it still exists. You also believe that all human qualities cant be programmed into something thats "artificial" but the funny thing about that is that most technology is based off of how our bodies work. Why is the idea of human made sentient beings so far fetched? Its only going to take for humanity to understand more about itself. The more we understand about ourselves, the easier it will be to replicate it into something else. The only reason you dont think it would be possible to make a robot that cant operate on instinct is because you dont understand how instinct works. You say that you dont think a robot would be the best mother, best friend or lover but most humans cant even play those roles well. I think in the next 50 years or so, artificial intelligence will make very substantial improvements.in the area of instant cognition.
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Posted 7/1/13
Someone's been watching Time of Eve?
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