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Anime Criticism & Sword Art Online
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Posted 7/24/13 , edited 7/24/13

iblessall wrote:



3. Yes I know; I said she had a strong start because of that, but then whittled down to become a plot device. Asuna's want to clear the game was definitely strong and she was a pretty powerful and independent character, until she falls in love with Kirito; that's when we see her slowly declining into a semi-useless character and needs to depend on Kirito for everything. Sure she stays physically strong, but as a character she ends up being... not so good. As for the others, I didn't mean Silica and Liz; I meant the two women from ALO whose names escape me. They looked exceptionally strong and knew what they were doing; but for some reason once Kirito joins in they become sacks of potatoes who can't do anything anymore until he needs help.


I told myself that I wasn't going to post in this topic anymore, but I'm sick of the Asuna becoming a weak character thing.

Bolding this because it is important: Kirito would have FAILED to clear the game without Asuna.

I mean, c'mon folks, not only does she take the blow that would have killed Kirito the first time, but who's face does he see on the verge of dying? The face that gives him the power to do the impossible, cheat the system and finish the game. It's Asuna's. I would argue that, after they fall in love, Kirito becomes just as much, if not more dependent on Asuna as she is on him.

Obvious, I'm not talking about the second arc here.


Then again, imagine all the grinding he could've been doing instead of spending time being lovey dovey?
Basically, romance = xp waste.
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Posted 7/24/13

iblessall wrote:

I told myself that I wasn't going to post in this topic anymore, but I'm sick of the Asuna becoming a weak character thing.

Bolding this because it is important: Kirito would have FAILED to clear the game without Asuna.

I mean, c'mon folks, not only does she take the blow that would have killed Kirito the first time, but who's face does he see on the verge of dying? The face that gives him the power to do the impossible, cheat the system and finish the game. It's Asuna's. I would argue that, after they fall in love, Kirito becomes just as much, if not more dependent on Asuna as she is on him.

Obvious, I'm not talking about the second arc here.


I wasn't talking about that scene and that's why I didn't mention it. Her sacrifice was probably one of my favorite scenes in anime ever. But up until that point I just thought everything she had going for her was thrown down the drain to focus on their relationship.

Again, I don't HATE SAO one bit and I do like it. I just found myself pointing out flaws instead of focusing on what was happening and that hindered my enjoyment. I just don't like seeing people praise the show as if it's some masterpiece, because it does have its flaws and is in no way a deity.
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Posted 7/24/13

Kreyola wrote:


iblessall wrote:

I told myself that I wasn't going to post in this topic anymore, but I'm sick of the Asuna becoming a weak character thing.

Bolding this because it is important: Kirito would have FAILED to clear the game without Asuna.

I mean, c'mon folks, not only does she take the blow that would have killed Kirito the first time, but who's face does he see on the verge of dying? The face that gives him the power to do the impossible, cheat the system and finish the game. It's Asuna's. I would argue that, after they fall in love, Kirito becomes just as much, if not more dependent on Asuna as she is on him.

Obvious, I'm not talking about the second arc here.


I wasn't talking about that scene and that's why I didn't mention it. Her sacrifice was probably one of my favorite scenes in anime ever. But up until that point I just thought everything she had going for her was thrown down the drain to focus on their relationship.

Again, I don't HATE SAO one bit and I do like it. I just found myself pointing out flaws instead of focusing on what was happening and that hindered my enjoyment. I just don't like seeing people praise the show as if it's some masterpiece, because it does have its flaws and is in no way a deity.


I guess that I think they both dissolve into the relationship after they fall in love. And, because they are married, that's the way it should be. Two become one. But that's something that I derive almost exclusively from my Catholic faith, which is probably why not many other people appreciate it.
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Posted 7/24/13
It's not often that I get deeply drawn into an anime series. Usually I watch an episode or two every few days. Then there are anime shows that get me hooked enough to marathon as much as I can each day. Sword Art Online is one of those latter types, for me.

The trick to this, as with any anime show, is that you will have those who connect to it and those who don't. Example: So many people love Naruto and I can barely stand to watch an episode once every few months, if even that.

Of course there will always be 'better' anime to watch than SAO but to me, I enjoyed it immensely. I enjoyed the music, the art form and yes, the storyline. It's not often that I want to reach through the monitor and beat the crap out of an anime character (as seen with the Sugou Nobuyuki in the early part of Episode 15).

I thoroughly enjoyed this series. Some people will obviously disagree with me on that viewpoint and that's their right. It's not a show for everyone.
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Posted 7/24/13
1. Why would Klein hate the Beta Testers when one accepted his plea to teach him how to play the game? I was talking about Kiabou, who stated all Beta Testers left the newbies to fend for themselves while taking all the good training spots.

Let's assume Klein didn't have any of his other friends (the ones that later made up his guild) in the game and joined Kirito. He still would have been left behind by Kirito in order to move the plot beyond For-Against Beta Testers. Having him tag along with Kirito would have 1. took away screentime from Agil being a new player for beta testers 2. interrupted the dynamic between Kirito and Asuna (their meeting, the talk between them after the meeting [although you could have Klein be away talking to others while Kirito and Asuna talk to themselves-Bread Scene], the boss fight)

2. Because they (BT) made a good scapegoat and because it's somewhat true?
Kirito knew that the training grounds around the beginning town would be wiped clean and that they should move on to the next town. Who did he tell this to? only one other person. Could he have helped other players learn the game (like he did with Klein)? Sure, but he didn't because he focused more on becoming stronger than helping others.
Diabel knew of the last attack bonus and probably other information that regular players didn't know. Did he tell these to the raid group? No. He kept it to himself and told everyone else to stand back so that he alone could get the bonus.

Of the raid group, only Kirito knew of the Katana skills even though there may be the possibility of other beta players in the game as well (which if they were, they didn't know of the last attack bonus gotten from defeating a boss, supporting Kirito's speech about how much of them were noobs). It doesn't matter if they were actually experienced or the same as regular players, the fact that they were Beta Testers was enough for other players to hate them.

Like how all Muslims were viewed as terrorists, even though only 4 or 5 were actual terrorists.

3. So you're basing their strength based on looks alone? They could just be the best at managing their territories with some skill.
And it would be horrible for them to help when their deaths would cause them severe penalties.
And the fact that if they did join in, what's stopping the Salamander, who outnumber both the Cait Sith and Sylphs, from joining in and sniping the leaders?
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Posted 7/24/13
Well people like what they like and don't like what they don't like. There's gonna be haters because people, for whatever reason, like to be hateful.

Good criticism isn't spiteful and isn't aimed at tearing others down. It is pointing out flaws and suggesting other alternatives. One good example would be turning in a paper to a professor or a story to an editor. That paper or story might come back to you covered in red ink , but not necessarily because they hate what you wrote, but because they marked the contextual and grammatical issues. If they write comments like "this is stupid" or "xxx is better because yyyy", then obviously they didn't do their job correctly.

I don't like SAO or other animes for genre reasons, not animation or storyline, but if people legitimately find issues with the story or animation and want to point out those issues in a respectful manner then I think they can do that all they want. But people will be disrespectful and that's just life.
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Posted 7/24/13

FallenYmir wrote:

1. Why would Klein hate the Beta Testers when one accepted his plea to teach him how to play the game? I was talking about Kiabou, who stated all Beta Testers left the newbies to fend for themselves while taking all the good training spots.

Let's assume Klein didn't have any of his other friends (the ones that later made up his guild) in the game and joined Kirito. He still would have been left behind by Kirito in order to move the plot beyond For-Against Beta Testers. Having him tag along with Kirito would have 1. took away screentime from Agil being a new player for beta testers 2. interrupted the dynamic between Kirito and Asuna (their meeting, the talk between them after the meeting [although you could have Klein be away talking to others while Kirito and Asuna talk to themselves-Bread Scene], the boss fight)

2. Because they (BT) made a good scapegoat and because it's somewhat true?
Kirito knew that the training grounds around the beginning town would be wiped clean and that they should move on to the next town. Who did he tell this to? only one other person. Could he have helped other players learn the game (like he did with Klein)? Sure, but he didn't because he focused more on becoming stronger than helping others.
Diabel knew of the last attack bonus and probably other information that regular players didn't know. Did he tell these to the raid group? No. He kept it to himself and told everyone else to stand back so that he alone could get the bonus.

Of the raid group, only Kirito knew of the Katana skills even though there may be the possibility of other beta players in the game as well (which if they were, they didn't know of the last attack bonus gotten from defeating a boss, supporting Kirito's speech about how much of them were noobs). It doesn't matter if they were actually experienced or the same as regular players, the fact that they were Beta Testers was enough for other players to hate them.

Like how all Muslims were viewed as terrorists, even though only 4 or 5 were actual terrorists.

3. So you're basing their strength based on looks alone? They could just be the best at managing their territories with some skill.
And it would be horrible for them to help when their deaths would cause them severe penalties.
And the fact that if they did join in, what's stopping the Salamander, who outnumber both the Cait Sith and Sylphs, from joining in and sniping the leaders?

1. I misunderstood, sorry on my part.

Okay, but even so, it would've made the first arc a whole lot better and that's what I'm getting at. Sure he might have gotten in the way a little, but it's better than having everything rushing and moving on like a bullet train and definitely better than seeing Kirito pwn everything in sight. Like when he and Asuna teamed up to fight the bosses, it was amazing to see two characters working together to easily wipe out something along with the epic music and animation; seeing one character doing it constantly gets old and makes it seem like he can do anything without any sort of challenge. Seeing teamwork in those fights would show that everyone was in it together despite the "death in real life, have to be the strongest" thing. Now let's assume Klein is with him and is strong enough to fight (since he did become the leader of a Guild) alongside Kirito, now wouldn't that be pretty badass? That's what I'm talking about and why I see him as a huge wasted character.

2. Diabel did what he did because he wanted the prize yeah, but he didn't know about the change in attack from the boss, like Kirito, until the last minute and by then it had already been too late to avoid his death. This should also be considered being a noob because he didn't know. Besides, Kirito didn't tell anyone either, so don't excuse him and point to Diabel when they both were in the wrong there.

The only reason Kirito decided to go solo was because of Kibaou telling everyone that BT were horrible scums. Those who were at that meeting also obviously heard Agil and his defense of the beta testers with the free book they created for the noobs, so there was no reason to hate them when they were already told, "Hey, they made this to help you, cut them some slack." Of course some information was wrong, but only because a demo and the real thing are going to be slightly different without anyone's knowledge once a game comes out. The fact is Kirito shouldn't have made it seem like he was the one solely being attacked when he wasn't; it only felt that way because he was the nearest one who revealed that he was a beater himself, however it wasn't his nor the BT's fault about what happened to Diabel. Not everyone can know everything about a game immediately, especially a new one and acting as if people should is ignorant (not you, the characters).

Like when Diabel didn't expect the boss to change its tactics; sure he knew what it dropped when it died, but that doesn't make him any more knowledgeable of the game than the noobs they brought along with them. I'm going to mention the book again, because anyone who read it probably read about the prize it dropped; assuming nobody did because of their hate for the BT it's safe to assume that Diabel wasn't in the beta but actually got one of those books and read about the boss beforehand.

3. Absolutely not. I didn't say, "they look strong so they must be." No. I said they looked strong and COULD have been had they been able to show off their power if they had any when they were introduced (it happened near the end of the series when Kirito was fighting those angel things). But they didn't, instead it had to be Kirito's job to do everything for them and why they were character throw aways. And it could've been the same for Kirito who was fighting their leader: what's stopping them from sniping him as well? Because he has plot armor and they don't?
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Posted 7/26/13 , edited 7/26/13
The first two episodes of SAO gave the staff too large of a grub they could chew; imo most haters' (including me) opinions were positive because they expected so much in such fabulous setting. i myself expected some (smart) plot twists because the setting has a potential to do so, to make the show better. then i felt betrayed.

honestly if the characters in the side stories are not girls who fell for Kirito. or if they somehow value death more (i have problems in Godfrey's episode), SAO couldve been more of an enjoyable watch with more subtle flaws. i stopped at ep 11.

i actually laughed at how cheesy "beater" was
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Posted 7/26/13 , edited 7/26/13

ginkou-san wrote:

The first two episodes of SAO gave the staff too large of a grub they could chew; imo most haters' (including me) opinions were positive because they expected so much in such fabulous setting. i myself expected some (smart) plot twists because the setting has a potential to do so, to make the show better. then i felt betrayed.

honestly if the characters in the side stories are not girls who fell for Kirito. or if they somehow value death more (i have problems in Godfrey's episode), SAO couldve been more of an enjoyable watch with more subtle flaws. i stopped at ep 11.

i actually laughed at how cheesy "beater" was


Most of those problems were handled better in the light novels. Especially the value of death. Shit, that runs through not only the Aincrad story, but shows up again afterwards in GGO and Mother's Rosario. Heck, ALO was done better in the light novels than in the anime (Asuna was not nearly as dumb as the anime depicted.)

I do agree with the stuff with some of the side stories involving Scilia and Liz. They were not... the best. Pretty silly, actually. I also agree with the staff took on too large a load to make an actual good iteration of the light novels. They tried to shove everything from four different books into one 25 episode series. Not a good excuse, but it explains what happened. The series did pretty decent some of the time, and I loved the series when I first saw it, enough so to read the light novels. After reading them I looked back at the anime in disappointment, but still like it a bit. Probably has to deal with Kirito and Asuna during the SAO stuff.
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Posted 7/26/13
Guilty Crown.
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Posted 7/26/13 , edited 7/26/13
You know, i see a lot of people who seem to really have thought there opinion out very well, and have articulated it even better. I think i've read some interesting posts in this thread. Made me think about how i view a show i might dislike/love/ or just indifferent.
As there are a hell of a lot of posts in the thread, i can't read them all -- so i donno if this point has already been made or not, but --

It's far easier to hate then it is to be positive. It way easier to give up then to achieve something that is hard. Even though the reward almost always outweighs the effort when something is difficult, and you complete/achieve the goal at hand.

I think this even includes peoples opinion. Sifting through all the bullshit to find out what you really like about something, and forming a strong opinion that makes sense and seems intelligible and can be regarded as an idea that people will respect -- is very hard! And certainly takes a better mind then my own. But i battle everyday(like what everyone should do) to see the good happening in my day and the good things that i take advantage of everyday, just simply because it makes me feel good. But it's really hard sometimes. really HARD!

I know im getting off topic a bit, but my point is simple -- hating is just too easy, and brilliant people or stupid people can do it easily on both ends, hence why i think you see a lot of people who are quick to start the flamming/hating/bashing w/e you wanna call it. Takes way more effort to be positive and remember the good things about what your watching/drawing/writing/w/e then it does just too see the bad. I think western culture suffers hard from this, but that's for a different discussion.

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Posted 7/26/13 , edited 7/26/13
The deal with SAO is it had so much potential with it's premise. It had an excellent setting, interesting characters, and quality animation. Where SAO fell apart was in it's execution. The characters became typical archetypes with Asuna in particular being brought from capable and respectable warrior to helpless and tentacle scene'd damsel in distress. The world of ALF was also poorly portrayed. It was supposed to be a magical place where you could experience the joy of flight, but it always felt flat, like a poor imitation of SAO. Not to mention how abrupt and unfufilling the ending to the SAO arc was after so much build up. Lastly we have the "I'm going to take over the world by becoming head of large corporation while coincidentally being a sexual pervert" villain we've all seen countless times.

tl;dr the reason people dislike SAO is because they recognize the sheer amount of potential squandered by poor decisions.
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Posted 7/26/13
The anime is great imo, sure it falls off a little the second arc but I still really enjoyed it. Saying that, Suguha really annoyed me trying to get with her brother/cousin.

I can say this though, I DONT LIKE THE ENGLISH DUB! English voice actors rarely ever do justice to the characters we love. I think everyone can agree on that.
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Posted 7/27/13

Orga777 wrote:


ginkou-san wrote:

The first two episodes of SAO gave the staff too large of a grub they could chew; imo most haters' (including me) opinions were positive because they expected so much in such fabulous setting. i myself expected some (smart) plot twists because the setting has a potential to do so, to make the show better. then i felt betrayed.

honestly if the characters in the side stories are not girls who fell for Kirito. or if they somehow value death more (i have problems in Godfrey's episode), SAO couldve been more of an enjoyable watch with more subtle flaws. i stopped at ep 11.

i actually laughed at how cheesy "beater" was


Most of those problems were handled better in the light novels. Especially the value of death. Shit, that runs through not only the Aincrad story, but shows up again afterwards in GGO and Mother's Rosario. Heck, ALO was done better in the light novels than in the anime (Asuna was not nearly as dumb as the anime depicted.)

I do agree with the stuff with some of the side stories involving Scilia and Liz. They were not... the best. Pretty silly, actually. I also agree with the staff took on too large a load to make an actual good iteration of the light novels. They tried to shove everything from four different books into one 25 episode series. Not a good excuse, but it explains what happened. The series did pretty decent some of the time, and I loved the series when I first saw it, enough so to read the light novels. After reading them I looked back at the anime in disappointment, but still like it a bit. Probably has to deal with Kirito and Asuna during the SAO stuff.


given that i haven't read the light novels......
i was actually surprised when i found out that the first half of the anime finished off Aincrad and went on a different setting/game. i suppose they can't stay in Aincrad forever but really.......so much couldve been done; not just epic boss battles, epic duels, epic fanservice, and epic introduction of game mechanisms (in which, like what, only PK reoccured 'brilliantly' in the number of episodes i watched. thanks, Kuradeel). i think if the staff couldve somehow made us relate more to the world, more to the characters, so much real epic could've been done.

do i have problems with the writing. sorry.....in the end i think the whole series is just mediocre. i might read the novels but currently i have nothing to drive me to do so.
or that i love slice-of-life so much that i need some decent moral advices in every single damn thing
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Posted 7/27/13
While I do find that Sword Art Online is an overrated anime, I don't hate it. In fact, I am a big fan of the light novels if that gives me any credit(Mother's Rosario being my favorite book in the series). In my opinion, SAO isn't good, but it's definitely not as bad as some of the haters say it is.

One of my biggest problems with Sword Art Online is it's character development(or lack there of). My main example being Asuna. She set herself up to have the potential of being one of the strongest female leads in anime(considering that there are very few), but in the end she turned out to have the personality I can only describe to be a tsundere who can't do anything unless she has her boyfriend, Kirito.

Another are the plot holes. Why did Kayaba trap 10,000 players in a game that meant life or death? How did Kirito manage to be one of the strongest players of SAO despite him being a solo player? None of that was really answered in the anime nor the light novels. Sure, Kirito is one heck of a gamer and was a beta tester, but that doesn't give enough justice. Most of the time in an MMO, players that train and fight in groups/guilds/clans find it easier to level up since most of the time the experience is shared. So how come Kirito didn't have a problem leveling up when he was solo?

Then there's the "romance" and the plot of the whole second half of the show. I put romance in parentheses because the love between Asuna and Kirito felt so unrealistic, so one dimensional to me that I don't feel it's right to even call it a romance. I get that they were trapped in a game for two years and they probably spent plenty of time to get to know each other(even though it was never mentioned in detail), but it just didn't feel right. Myself being a big fan of the slice of life/romance genre in anime, I always get this feeling somewhere in me if I think that the storyline did a good job to build up the background of a couple's romance. I didn't get that feeling when I saw Asuna and Kirito. As for the second half of the show, I feel as though it's just a big middle finger to the first half. What happens in the second half takes place in a week, but it has just as many episodes as the first half, which takes place in the span of two years. Why is that?

As the second half of the show progressed, I lost touch with how severe of a risk SAO started out with. It went from a death penalty to trying to save your girlfriend from a power hungry pervert. And that really bothered me. During the duration of the second half I was bored and only continued to watch because I wanted to find out what happened at the end.

No matter how much I nit pick about the downside of Sword Art Online, there were really good moments in the show. More specifically was the incredible artwork and the action scenes. This was especially obvious in any of the boss battles. I can't describe the feelings I had when Kirito showed off Dual Blades for the first time against Gleam Eyes. I got chills. And the artwork of SAO is absolutely stunning(I first noticed how remarkable in the Lisbeth episode where the two were falling and in the background were mountains) despite the fact that the show as a whole is mediocre at best.

Overall, SAO is a show that got its hype due to how much it appealed to its fanbase. Many anime fans are either gamers or have played at least one MMO before, and I believe that Reki(author of SAO and Accel World) knew this. While it may not be as great as some fans say it is, it isn't as bad as some haters say it is.
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