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Post Reply Noah's arc story- fact or fiction?
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55 / M / Covina, California
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Posted 7/23/13

bensonc120 wrote:



My question is do you think this story is fact or fiction? If you think this story is real, please explain how a vessel with dimensions as described in the bible can possibly house all those creatures?

Everybody's input is welcome, but I'm especially interested in hearing from christians who believe that the bible is the undisputed word of god how they feel this story is even possible.




ARK



1. Noah’s ark was the provision by which forefathers of all mankind survived the global Deluge of 2370-2369 B.C.E. (See DELUGE; NOAH No. 1.) Detailed instructions were given to Noah by Jehovah as to its size, shape, design for light and ventilation, and materials to be used for its construction.—Ge 6:14-16.

Design and Size.

The ark (Heb., te·vah′; Gr., ki·bo·tos′) was a rectangular chestlike vessel presumably having square corners and a flat bottom. It needed no rounded bottom or sharp bow to cut rapidly through the water; it required no steering; its only functions were to be watertight and to stay afloat. A vessel so shaped is very stable, cannot be easily capsized, and contains about one third more storage space than ships of conventional design. There was a door provided in the side of the ark for loading and unloading the cargo.

In size the ark was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. Conservatively calculating the cubit as 44.5 cm (17.5 in.) (some think the ancient cubit was nearer 56 or 61 cm), the ark measured 133.5 m by 22.3 m by 13.4 m (437 ft 6 in. × 72 ft 11 in. × 43 ft 9 in.), less than half the length of the ocean liner Queen Elizabeth 2. This proportion of length to width (6 to 1) is used by modern naval architects. This gave the ark approximately 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) in gross volume. It is estimated that such a vessel would have a displacement nearly equal to that of the mighty 269-m (883 ft) Titanic of this 20th century. No cargo vessel of ancient times even slightly resembled the ark in its colossal size. Internally strengthened by adding two floors, the three decks thus provided gave a total of about 8,900 sq m (96,000 sq ft) of space.

“You will make a tso′har [roof; or, window] for the ark,” Noah was told. (Ge 6:16) Just what this was or how it was constructed is not altogether clear. Some scholars think tso′har is related to light and so they translate it “window” (KJ, Mo), “light” (AS, JP), “a place for light” (Ro). Others, however, associate tso′har with a later Arabic root meaning “back (of the hand),” “back (of a beast),” “deck (of a ship),” that is, the part away from the ground or water, and for this reason translate it “roof.” (AT, RS, JB) This tso′har, Noah was told, was to be completed “to the extent of a cubit upward.”—Ge 6:16.

It could be, therefore, that the tso′har provided for adequate light and ventilation, not just a single cubit-square “peephole,” but an opening a cubit in height near the roof and extending around the four sides to give an opening of nearly 140 sq m (1,500 sq ft). On the other hand, while still allowing an ample opening for ventilation under the roof or elsewhere, the roof could have had slightly angled sides. Regarding this possibility James F. Armstrong wrote in Vetus Testamentum (Leiden, 1960, p. 333): “‘Unto a cubit upward you shall finish it’ is difficult to understand when sohar is translated either ‘light (= window)’ or even ‘(flat) roof’. If, however, a gable-type roof be postulated, the ‘one cubit upward’ can refer to the elevation of the crease of the roof above the level of the tops of the walls. In modern architectural terms, the ‘one cubit’ would be the height of the kingposts between which the ridgepiece is laid. . . . According to the argument that has been presented, the roof of Noah’s ark was conceived as having a four per-cent pitch (1 cubit elevation — 25 cubits from wall to ridge), quite adequate to permit the water of the rains to flow off.”

Of what this huge ark was to be built was made plain by Jehovah: “Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree [literally, trees of gopher].” (Ge 6:14) This resinous wood here prescribed is thought by some to be cypress or a similar tree. In that part of the world what today is called cypress was in abundant supply; it was particularly favored for shipbuilding by the Phoenicians and by Alexander the Great, as it is even down to the present time; and it is especially resistant to water and decay. Doors and posts made of cypress are reported to have lasted 1,100 years. In addition, Noah was told not merely to caulk the seams but to “cover [the ark] inside and outside with tar.

Ample Carrying Capacity.
The passenger list of the ark was quite impressive. Besides Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their wives, living creatures “of every sort of flesh, two of each,” were to be taken aboard. “Male and female they will be. Of the flying creatures according to their kinds and of the domestic animals according to their kinds, of all moving animals of the ground according to their kinds, two of each will go in there to you to preserve them alive.” Of the clean beasts and fowls, seven of each kind were to be taken. A great quantity and variety of food for all these creatures, to last for more than a year, also had to be stowed away.—Ge 6:18-21; 7:2, 3.

The “kinds” of animals selected had reference to the clear-cut and unalterable boundaries or limits set by the Creator, within which boundaries creatures are capable of breeding “according to their kinds.” It has been estimated by some that the hundreds of thousands of species of animals today could be reduced to a comparatively few family “kinds”—the horse kind and the cow kind, to mention but two. The breeding boundaries according to “kind” established by Jehovah were not and could not be crossed. With this in mind some investigators have said that, had there been as few as 43 “kinds” of mammals, 74 “kinds” of birds, and 10 “kinds” of reptiles in the ark, they could have produced the variety of species known today. Others have been more liberal in estimating that 72 “kinds” of quadrupeds and less than 200 bird “kinds” were all that were required. That the great variety of animal life known today could have come from inbreeding within so few “kinds” following the Flood is proved by the endless variety of humankind—short, tall, fat, thin, with countless variations in the color of hair, eyes, and skin—all of whom sprang from the one family of Noah.

Please read the following very carefully.
These estimates may seem too restrictive to some, especially since such sources as The Encyclopedia Americana indicate that there are upwards of 1,300,000 species of animals. (1977, Vol. 1, pp. 859-873) However, over 60 percent of these are insects. Breaking these figures down further, of the 24,000 amphibians, reptiles, birds, and mammals, 10,000 are birds, 9,000 are reptiles and amphibians, many of which could have survived outside the ark, and only 5,000 are mammals, including whales and porpoises, which would have also remained outside the ark. Other researchers estimate that there are only about 290 species of land mammals larger than sheep and about 1,360 smaller than rats. (The Deluge Story in Stone, by B. C. Nelson, 1949, p. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A. M. Rehwinkel, 1957, p. 69) So, even if estimates are based on these expanded figures, the ark could easily have accommodated a pair of all these animals.

Five months after the Deluge began, “the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat,” not likely, however, atop the uppermost peak (nearly 5,165 m; 16,950 ft), but on suitable terrain where everyone aboard lived comfortably for some months more. Finally, after a year and ten days from the time the Deluge began, the door again was opened and all aboard disembarked.—Ge 7:11; 8:4, 14.

The preceding information was from " Insight on the Scriptures "

The above information was just about the Ark, But as explained in the second paragraph, that the illustration shown by the Thread Owner is inaccurate, As described, It was basically a BIG BOX, It didn't need a bow or keel or rudder.


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Posted 7/23/13

IdkWhatToPutLol wrote:


bensonc120 wrote:


IdkWhatToPutLol wrote:

Meh I'm a Christian, but I don't believe this actually happened. I believe most things in the bible aren't meant to be taken word for word, but are more about the interpretation you get from the story itself.


Thank you for answering. I've actually had this discussion with many of my christian friends, as well as with my cousin and uncle who are both pastors, and their view point is the same as yours. I just have a hard time grasping how people would take these stories for history, when their purpose is for teaching.


Very few followers of the bible take these stories literally. It's fairly obvious most of the stuff is impossible, like walking on water, however the stories do portray a certain message.


The impossibility is part of that message, though. Impossible things were done because God willed it so. Because they were impossible, it was proof of both God's existence and His power - at least for those who saw it done.

Today, we have only the word of ancient writers that these things were actually done. If God is out there, he quit making with the obvious miracles centuries ago.
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Posted 7/23/13
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Posted 7/25/13
Some people have a difficult time separating fact from fiction. Far from it for me to judge, but doses of reality with no sugar coating help to bring a few people around to the calculating side of the brain.
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Posted 7/26/13
NOAH.

Faultless Among His Contemporaries.
The world in which Noah lived had become degenerate. During this period angels who left their original position and proper dwelling place had married women and produced offspring, “men of fame,” whipping up the violence filling the earth (Ge 6:1-4; Jude 6), until “every inclination of the thoughts of [man’s] heart was only bad all the time” and the earth became “ruined, because all flesh had ruined its way on the earth.” (Ge 6:5, 11, 12) But Noah avoided this corruption and is described by God’s Word as “a righteous man. He proved himself faultless among his contemporaries. Noah walked with the true God.” (Ge 6:8, 9) Noah could be spoken of as “faultless” because, unlike that ungodly world, he measured up fully to what God required of him.—Compare Ge 6:22

Jehovah Purposes to Destroy That World.

Jehovah set a time limit for the existence of that ungodly world, saying: “My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” (Ge 6:3) Evidently these words were spoken to Noah. About 20 years after that, Noah’s first son (probably Japheth) was born (2470 B.C.E.), and the record shows that another son, Shem, was born two years later. The time of Ham’s birth is not stated, but these three sons were grown and married when the divine instructions were given to Noah to build an ark. Consequently, it is likely that only 40 or 50 years then remained before the Deluge. (Ge 6:13-18) Now, brought into a covenant with Jehovah (Ge 6:18) and assisted by his family, Noah set to work as a builder and “a preacher of righteousness,” warning that wicked generation of impending destruction.—2Peter 2:5

Preservation Through the Flood.

The people did not believe that God would act to destroy a world of wickedness. So it was because Noah possessed strong faith that he, in implicit obedience, did “according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.” (Ge 6:22) It was because of his unswerving faith in Jehovah that the Christian writer of the book of Hebrews included him in that “so great a cloud of witnesses.” He wrote: “By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this faith he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that is according to faith.”—Heb 11:7; 12:1.

Seven days before the floodwaters began to fall, Jehovah instructed Noah to gather the animals into the ark. On the seventh day of that week, “Noah went in, and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him, into the ark ahead of the waters of the deluge. . . . After that Jehovah shut the door behind him.” On that very day “the flood arrived and destroyed them all.”—Ge 7:1-16; Lu 17:27.
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Posted 7/26/13

KaosProphet wrote:


IdkWhatToPutLol wrote:


bensonc120 wrote:


IdkWhatToPutLol wrote:

Meh I'm a Christian, but I don't believe this actually happened. I believe most things in the bible aren't meant to be taken word for word, but are more about the interpretation you get from the story itself.


Thank you for answering. I've actually had this discussion with many of my christian friends, as well as with my cousin and uncle who are both pastors, and their view point is the same as yours. I just have a hard time grasping how people would take these stories for history, when their purpose is for teaching.


Very few followers of the bible take these stories literally. It's fairly obvious most of the stuff is impossible, like walking on water, however the stories do portray a certain message.


The impossibility is part of that message, though. Impossible things were done because God willed it so. Because they were impossible, it was proof of both God's existence and His power - at least for those who saw it done.

Today, we have only the word of ancient writers that these things were actually done. If God is out there, he quit making with the obvious miracles centuries ago.


I'll be frank, since most " professed " Christians don't even try to do what Jesus sent his disciples out to do and did, don't have even a mustard grain of faith in the inspired record, In God's word to man, the Bible, I strongly have faith that Noah and his family, when given warning of things, not yet beheld, and under devine instruction, built the ark and then when the deluge was imminent gathered up the proscribed land mammels into the ark, and birds, according to their kinds, (not their species)., the family had ample time to do all that was needed.
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Posted 7/27/13
Enough food and water for a year? To carry all that you'd need to tow a boat behind the Ark that was even bigger than the Ark.
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Posted 7/27/13
It's possible kuz he's a freakin God *q*
And maybe the animals were all smashed in there...
Plena 
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Posted 7/27/13
Well, in regard to having enough food, there were a lot of animals on board and sometime sacrifices have to be made.

Anyways, the Noah story is just a ripoff of earlier 'flood myths' from Sumerian and Babylonian mythology. The story is likely just an exaggerated account of a real event, with some crazy over the top storytelling included.

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Posted 8/4/13

JustineKo2 wrote:

Enough food and water for a year? To carry all that you'd need to tow a boat behind the Ark that was even bigger than the Ark.


Did you even read my post on the dimensions of the ark at all? or did you do what so many and just glossed over it?
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Posted 8/4/13

Plena wrote:

Well, in regard to having enough food, there were a lot of animals on board and sometime sacrifices have to be made.

Anyways, the Noah story is just a ripoff of earlier 'flood myths' from Sumerian and Babylonian mythology. The story is likely just an exaggerated account of a real event, with some crazy over the top storytelling included.



Do you have any facts or is this just your opinion?

You didn't even read the information I gave to the on both the Ark & Noah, did you?

The record of Noah and his family, their building the Ark, their gathering provisions for themselves and the animals, Noah's Preaching and and their going into the ark and the flood, Is NOT some ripoff and you haven't shown a sherd of evidence to support your contention.
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Posted 8/19/13 , edited 8/19/13
At that time period we hadn't even explored all of the recessives and remoteness of the world they wouldn't have known most of those animals, there has been evidence of a large flood in Europe but I highly doubt it was a world wide flood and that that many animals could fit on a ship. That amount of insects could take up that much room, let alone any other animal.

The Bible isn't a reliable academic source for the time period, it was written by different people with differing opinions and facts, it can't be taken too seriously.
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Posted 8/20/13

AcadGlade wrote:


Plena wrote:

Well, in regard to having enough food, there were a lot of animals on board and sometime sacrifices have to be made.

Anyways, the Noah story is just a ripoff of earlier 'flood myths' from Sumerian and Babylonian mythology. The story is likely just an exaggerated account of a real event, with some crazy over the top storytelling included.



Do you have any facts or is this just your opinion?

The record of Noah and his family, their building the Ark, their gathering provisions for themselves and the animals, Noah's Preaching and and their going into the ark and the flood, Is NOT some ripoff and you haven't shown a sherd of evidence to support your contention.


Short answer: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_was_the_story_of_Noah's_Ark_written
Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_myth#Sumerian
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Posted 8/20/13
I never really have believed in any of the stories written in the bible. Honestly the growth of Humanity through two humans seems unlikely without defects so why should I believe that a big wooden boat saved us from some flooding?

In opinion, I think that during that time, there was a great flood but some fool new it was coming so devised a vessel to carry his village. Once the flood came and the villagers were saved, he was praised highly and his story was written. And over the years his story has been Highly embellished
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Posted 8/20/13

kaptainkooleio wrote:

I never really have believed in any of the stories written in the bible. Honestly the growth of Humanity through two humans seems unlikely without defects so why should I believe that a big wooden boat saved us from some flooding?

In opinion, I think that during that time, there was a great flood but some fool new it was coming so devised a vessel to carry his village. Once the flood came and the villagers were saved, he was praised highly and his story was written. And over the years his story has been Highly embellished


But It wasn't a big wooden boat, I was a BIG WOODEN BOX. I mean, why would the Ark need a bow or a stearn? or a rudder?
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