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Propaganda at the park.
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M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 8/23/13
[spoiler

cheapshotfail wrote:



I don't have anything against marines or any military personnel, but they don't get a free pass when they act like idiots. They are not the only profession that risk their lives or save lives. I applaud and appreciate those marines who conduct themselves with dignity. But if they are racist, if they break the law, etc, or just act like idiots in general, they suffer the same consequences like everyone else. They are not above criticism and they are certainly not above the law.

I disagree with your last part about marines not killing innocent people. There are many marines and other soldiers who kill innocents and have been charged/convicted of war crimes. I'm not gonna support those guys just because they come from the same country I come from. I only support those who represent the our country well.
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21 / M
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Posted 8/23/13


If you read my first post, I said that they are free to wear it and to suffer the consequences (i.e. criticism, hate, etc.). It looks like our logic just made a full circle XD so I think we've reached a consensus on that topic.

As for the killing of innocent people, if someone commits a war crime worthy of expulsion then they are just not going to be a marine any more. But no matter what, they won't and have not killed nearly as many people as terrorists, and not in nearly as brutal of ways. I will always place my money on a marine over a terrorist, since they are out there protecting our way of life no matter how they do it (not that I endorse it).

Anyways, I'm going to bow out here or this is going to take up too much space in the comments. Nice debating with you, nice to see someone who debates rather than insults!
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Posted 8/24/13
Before i am misinterpreted here, i want to say that in no way do i support any acts of terrorism, domestic or international.
However, we must look at it from a wider perspective other than just racism.
Granted there are people in this world that are evil (and like super evil, im talking Saddam Hussein, charles manson, adolf hitler, etc) but what if we were to flip the perspective. Lets say im living in a country where anything i hear about america is negative, how corrupt they are, how vile, how lewd, how criminal etc. Of course my view of america is going to be different than that of someone living here, so to them these acts of terrorism are now heroism, but to us they are horrific events that do nothing but cause pain and suffering. But who is right?
To us they are wrong, but to them we are wrong. They would say that the people in the world trade centers were infidels and did not deserve to live. We would retaliate and bring to "justice" those who did us wrong.
Hitler saw the Jewish (and several others) race as unfit for humanity, survival of the fittest no? yet we know him to have committed unspeakable amounts of murder, torture, slavery, and just a large heap of wrongdoing. To him this was the truth, they deserved not to live, but to us it was a crime. And to some people it did not even happen because that is what they choose to believe....so now which is right.?
is truth really relative? because if it is then all peoples of this world are right, but if it is not relative that means there must be an absolute truth, and who determines where that comes from. everyone cannot be right, we know this. There are too many diverse opinions that exist to allow for truth to be true to the individual based on their relativity.
But i digress. That man had the choice to wear that shirt or not, yes it shows a message of intolerance and extreme biased but im sure those who have served in dangerous areas have an extremely different perspective than us. I do not believe he should subject his views to others but if the Westboro baptist can parade about hating fags (while using religion to do so) why can this man not wear a shirt that expresses his personal opinion. Again i am not agreeing with this man or the views portrayed on his shirt. Im sure we could find similar shirts in several countries we havent been so friendly to.
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37 / M / Northern California
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Posted 8/24/13

bship97 wrote:



Not all opinions are created equal. One may be entitled to their opinions, but they are not entitled to their own unique set of facts. I'll grant that morals are relative, and where religion is involved, inherently so. Whether it's right or not is a matter of philosophy, but I'll take this one mostly from a free speech perspective.

Should either of them be allowed to wear those shirts in public? I must answer yes, though their views are abhorrent to me. I value their right to their opinions, as ugly as those opinions may be to me, for the same reason the Westboro Baptist Church must still be allowed their degree of free speech... I don't want my right to free speech being censored by the majority, and while my views may not be considered abhorrent, or at the very least, not as abhorrent as the WBC, it stands to reason that if they could in theory be totally silenced, so too might my views. As unlikely as that prospect may be, the point stands.

I will never agree with such ignorance and hatred, willful or otherwise. I personally believe that the only ways to weed out such hatred are through education, keeping an open mind, developed critical thinking skills, and acquired tolerance. The social conflicts that lead to people wearing shirts like these might never end, but if people don't start to put in that effort for themselves, then the world will never see that possibility.
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Posted 8/24/13

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.

― Søren Kierkegaard
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52 / M / In
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Posted 8/24/13
I served one tour of afghanistan two tours of iraq and can pretty much tell you that guy never served or if he did he was REMF. The troops honestly never hated the people.
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26 / M / PA, USA
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Posted 8/24/13

Hachikobubble wrote:
Not all marines are jack wagons, F.Y.I.!
And not all Arabs are apart of the war or terrorists. Pure ignorance.


Just thought I would quote this point to reinforced it. Some people are just idiots, it happens all over the world, every single day, in some way or another.
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Posted 8/24/13

Spazticus wrote:



Not all opinions are created equal. One may be entitled to their opinions, but they are not entitled to their own unique set of facts. I'll grant that morals are relative, and where religion is involved, inherently so..



So what is to determine the value of an opinion? Whose opinion is better and why?
And how can morals be relative when they incorporate the defacing and degradation of another human being? was it morally correct for Africans to be enslaved for hundreds of years? or was it morally incorrect for MLK Jr to want to abolish racism and prejudice. Was it morally correct for Pol Pots to slaughter hundreds of thousands of Cambodians and Vietnamese? if opinions are unequal as you said, then whose is better and why?

ps (Im not picking a fight here at all, i do not want you to misunderstand me. i just enjoy intelligent debate and quite frankly i use this as an opportunity to learn.)
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20 / M
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Posted 8/24/13
This sort of thing is an issue, people seem to assume that if someone is from a specific part of the world, that automatically means they're out to take our "freedom" and what "our great forefathers" created for us Americans. Racism is something that would honestly be better just disappearing over night. It exists in all forms and I doubt it'll go away in the next couple of years or so.
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F / Urban South
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Posted 8/24/13

Spazticus wrote:
Not all opinions are created equal. One may be entitled to their opinions, but they are not entitled to their own unique set of facts.

This is genius, and I will be filing it away for future use. Is it yours, or are you quoting someone else?
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Posted 8/24/13
That is just awful. Maybe he and his wife simply had no other shirts and needed to where something, even those joke shirts someone got them for Christmas that one year. And maybe they were whispering "Oh no, I hope she doesn't think we are actually like this. We need more shirts."
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24 / F / Johnstown, PA, USA
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Posted 8/24/13 , edited 8/24/13
Two people wearing shirts that you disagree with and/or are offended by doesn't constitute as propaganda. Also, Arab isn't a race, so bigotry against them is considered tribalism. Finally, the man's shirt doesn't necessarily mean that he's in the military. I once owned a jacket with the logo, but it's my older sister who was a Marine.

And if you agree with them, nobody here wants or cares about your racist ignorant opinion.

You're fully aware that other people have the right to have a different mindset than you, and that the "nobody cares" bit is entirely immature. Anyway...


Why do you think people wear stuff like this in public?

Because they can, and it's well within their rights to don them. In America, at least (supposedly). I know alot of people (myself included) who wouldn't mind wearing a shirt that reflects their beliefs and interests. It's not much of a difference between the shirts worn by the couple and me wearing one that says: "I am not a minion of evil. I am upper management."

I also saw they had children... Both teenagers and little kids. What are your thoughts on that?

Their stances on two subjects doesn't dictate how their children will turn out, and they certainly don't mean that they're horrible parents. My grandparents on my mother's side have similar beliefs as the couple does, and my mother and her siblings turned out fine. Everyone just ignores my grandparents whenever they rant.
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19 / M / Long Beach
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Posted 8/24/13
Bleh... faith in humanity gone
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M / Texas
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Posted 8/24/13
I understand that we have a freedom to express how we feel here in the US, but as I have said many times before: Just because you have the freedom to do something doesn't make it a good idea.

See an Arab on the street? With that, he is basically saying that he wishes all Arabs were dead which is wrong. Same with that woman's shirt. I'm not a religious person, but it doesn't take a book to tell me that murder is wrong. I know some will say that muslim terrorist have killed many Americans, but not every Muslim is a terrorist. Even then, that is supposed to be what sets us apart from the savages.
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20 / M / Way outside the box
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Posted 8/24/13
these type of things don't even bother me anymore, I mean sure I disagree with em and would not be supporting that message, but its whatever in the end its not my place to pass judgment on them.
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