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Hirosima Anniversary
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Posted 8/6/13
All living life on Earth now have unnatural elements.
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Posted 8/6/13
The firebombing of Tokyo (as seen in Grave of the Fireflies) claimed more lives than the atomic bombs. People just focus on the nukes because it's easier. Let's try focusing on how many lives the nukes may have saved, because the (more deadly) firebombings did not compel Japan to surrender, but the nukes did. Now what do you think would have happened if we hadn't dropped the nukes?
Posted 8/6/13 , edited 8/6/13
Threads like this bug me.

It's always "Oh, America dropped two atom bombs", but its NEVER "Japan murdered/butched/raped/tortured millions in Asia, and never apologized for it, and STILL deny and hide their cruelty to this day!"

I mean come on...Japan goes on and on and on about the bombs, but they NEVER talk about things like The Rape of Nanking, Comfort women, POW torture, forced rape/rape with objects like swords, rape of babies even, human experimentation, forced suicide, live burial...etc.etc

At least America shows what they did, and includes what they did in their textbooks etc. But Japan? Oh no - to this day they hide/change their textbooks! They want no one to forget the bombs, but what everyone to forget their own horrific cruelty.

I'm not going to defend America for their choice and yet...America gave Japan several opportunities to quit the war, and warned them. But Japan - ever prideful Japan - refused to give in, and it was ONLY after the SECOND bomb when Russia declared war on them that Japan had to admit defeat. It took TWO bombs for that...Even after the first one Japan STILL refused to give in, and was completely ready to sacrifice innocent citizens.

Random fact - did you know for many years Japan did not even know of Pearl Harbor? They just thought the Americans started the war.

Germany makes movies about why the Nazis were wrong, and they show them in a bad light. America's made movies about racism, internment camps, etc.

But Japan?

When has Japan EVER made a movie about their horrible treatment of Chinese, Koreans, etc. and what they (Japan) did during the war?

When has Japan EVER written about what they did to these countries?

When has Japan EVER referenced their brutal army doings in anime or manga like they reference the atom bombs?

But they STILL bring up the atom bombs like it's ONLY America that did something not humane.

Sickening.

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Posted 8/6/13
I don't think Japan talks about any of the war, including the bombings. Others don't forget.
Posted 8/6/13

Mayo2111 wrote:

I've seen many documentaries on Fat Man and Little Boy. I saw film from the devastation of the bomb and its aftermath. I know a lot of people will argue for either side, Japan or the United States.

I will not get into this discussion. Why? It will not bring all those who died in that war back to life.

I think most of the Japanese people who died from both bombs didn't really have anything to do with the war. I think they just wanted to live their lives the best they could. It wasn't really their choice to go to war. Anyone who says it might have been can't be certain because they weren't alive then and I doubt many Americans can say they knew someone from that time who survived the bombs.

I look at it this way. I was against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, the United States may have gone in there and waged war, but that doesn't mean all Americans wanted that to happen. I think the same can be said for the Japanese people. I doubt many of them wanted to go to war. As I said, they just wanted to live their lives.

There is really nothing anyone can say or do today that will change what happened all those years ago. Even the United States has admitted that they could have handled things differently back then. President Clinton offered an official apology to Japan while he was in office. I think that was the right thing to do. I can see pitting their soldiers against our soldiers when it comes to war, but the killing of innocents was wrong. I know people will argue that the bombs may have ultimately saved more lives since it ended the war. No one can know for sure if that would have been true.

Consider the following:

I don't dislike anyone when it comes to race, religion, creed, geographic location, color, background...none of that. I am sure the Japanese citizens who died that day probably felt the same way. I am sure most of them had no quarrels with Americans other than their government was at war with us. I have read over the history of WWII and it is pretty sickening. I've read about the concentration camps we had here in the US during that time. I found it terrible that an American citizen could have all their rights stripped away and tossed into such a place simply because they were Asian. People always remember the camps the Jewish people had to live in, but no one ever talks about the loss of liberty Asian Americans had to endure during those dark days. In a lot of ways, that sort of behavior still happens.

After September 11th, 2001, a lot of American citizens of Middle Eastern descent were ridiculed, threatened, and investigated simply because of the color of their skin and their names. Even now I find it hard to even mention the Quran without being asked if I'm a sympathizer. I just wish people would finally get over such things and look at a person's character and not their skin color.

I think maybe that might have been the thinking when Truman decided to drop the bombs on Japan. Maybe someone said "Well, they're all Japanese so it doesn't matter who we kill." All these years later it feels like people still think that way.

I think when I am finally able to go to Japan I will visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki to see the memorials. I am sure the Japanese people living today know that we aren't proud of what our fathers and grandfathers did before we were here. I am sure there are people there who are still bitter toward any American for what happened. If I run into one, there isn't really anything I can do to change their minds other than to express my condolences. All we can really do is look at those events and learn from them. I sincerely hope no one ever decides to drop a nuclear bomb ever again. I don't care what is on the line. The mass killing of innocents is unacceptable.


Now if only you'd read about Japan's side of the war and the millions of innocents they murdered in such cruel ways, and still deny to this day. Expressing your condolences is fine - but when will Japan express their condolences to China, Korea, etc? When will they reveal to the public fully what they did?

The atom bombs were not right - and yet, Japan, though they were pretty much defeated even then - refused to give in. ONLY when Russia declared war on them after the second bomb did they surrender.

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Posted 8/6/13
Such regrettable events like this can demonstrate what man can do to his equals!
Sogno- 
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Posted 8/6/13
can't say we were right or wrong. Human lives shouldn't be taken so easily but humans shouldn't do some of the things they do.
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Posted 8/6/13

puellapeanut wrote:


Mayo2111 wrote:

I've seen many documentaries on Fat Man and Little Boy. I saw film from the devastation of the bomb and its aftermath. I know a lot of people will argue for either side, Japan or the United States.

I will not get into this discussion. Why? It will not bring all those who died in that war back to life.

I think most of the Japanese people who died from both bombs didn't really have anything to do with the war. I think they just wanted to live their lives the best they could. It wasn't really their choice to go to war. Anyone who says it might have been can't be certain because they weren't alive then and I doubt many Americans can say they knew someone from that time who survived the bombs.

I look at it this way. I was against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, the United States may have gone in there and waged war, but that doesn't mean all Americans wanted that to happen. I think the same can be said for the Japanese people. I doubt many of them wanted to go to war. As I said, they just wanted to live their lives.

There is really nothing anyone can say or do today that will change what happened all those years ago. Even the United States has admitted that they could have handled things differently back then. President Clinton offered an official apology to Japan while he was in office. I think that was the right thing to do. I can see pitting their soldiers against our soldiers when it comes to war, but the killing of innocents was wrong. I know people will argue that the bombs may have ultimately saved more lives since it ended the war. No one can know for sure if that would have been true.

Consider the following:

I don't dislike anyone when it comes to race, religion, creed, geographic location, color, background...none of that. I am sure the Japanese citizens who died that day probably felt the same way. I am sure most of them had no quarrels with Americans other than their government was at war with us. I have read over the history of WWII and it is pretty sickening. I've read about the concentration camps we had here in the US during that time. I found it terrible that an American citizen could have all their rights stripped away and tossed into such a place simply because they were Asian. People always remember the camps the Jewish people had to live in, but no one ever talks about the loss of liberty Asian Americans had to endure during those dark days. In a lot of ways, that sort of behavior still happens.

After September 11th, 2001, a lot of American citizens of Middle Eastern descent were ridiculed, threatened, and investigated simply because of the color of their skin and their names. Even now I find it hard to even mention the Quran without being asked if I'm a sympathizer. I just wish people would finally get over such things and look at a person's character and not their skin color.

I think maybe that might have been the thinking when Truman decided to drop the bombs on Japan. Maybe someone said "Well, they're all Japanese so it doesn't matter who we kill." All these years later it feels like people still think that way.

I think when I am finally able to go to Japan I will visit Hiroshima and Nagasaki to see the memorials. I am sure the Japanese people living today know that we aren't proud of what our fathers and grandfathers did before we were here. I am sure there are people there who are still bitter toward any American for what happened. If I run into one, there isn't really anything I can do to change their minds other than to express my condolences. All we can really do is look at those events and learn from them. I sincerely hope no one ever decides to drop a nuclear bomb ever again. I don't care what is on the line. The mass killing of innocents is unacceptable.


Now if only you'd read about Japan's side of the war and the millions of innocents they murdered in such cruel ways, and still deny to this day. Expressing your condolences is fine - but when will Japan express their condolences to China, Korea, etc? When will they reveal to the public fully what they did?

The atom bombs were not right - and yet, Japan, though they were pretty much defeated even then - refused to give in. ONLY when Russia declared war on them after the second bomb did they surrender.



I'm aware of that. Japan did its share to bring on what eventually happened. I still don't blame the innocents though. Their government, I blame. They made some serious mistakes. I still don't think their people deserved it.

And get out from under my bed.
Posted 8/6/13


I respect your point of view, but no I'm not getting out from under your bed though its dusty.

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Posted 8/6/13
Nuclear weapons... We don't need this kind of destruction, it poisons the land and makes it uninhabitable, not to mention those who die must die a horribly painful death...
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Posted 8/6/13
It's so stupid how people still go on about how Japan did this or did that. The people who actually committed all those atrocities are either long gone or so old they can't do anything anymore.

Let it go already.
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Posted 8/6/13

tedn wrote:

68 years ago America issued an ultimatum to imperial Japan, surrender or the bomb. 300,000 mostly civilians paid the ultimate price for their military leaders arrogance. Were we right? Is the use of atomic weapons inhumane under any circumstance?
IMHO, Japan was bent on world domination and committed crimes equal to the Nazi's.
But I cannot say we were justified, we all lost.
Ironically,with no army of its own Japan is dependent the US nuclear arsenal for protection.


It's Hiroshima, not Hirosima. At least get city names right.
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Posted 8/7/13
Sorry for the typo-!
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Posted 8/7/13
I brought up Japanese atrocities to determine under what circumstances use of nuclear weapons is justified.
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Posted 8/7/13 , edited 8/7/13
My condolences to those who may have been affected by the bombs, but sometimes, killing one life can save a thousand.

I was just recently reading Gun Gale Online's LN and this idea was touched upon very well to a smaller scale. Check the spoiler.

ACTUAL SPOILER


Now there's a couple arguments against this:

1. Doesn't killing cause greater evil to emerge?
Answer: Although series like Batman may push this point, I would disagree--the human population is finite, and I don't believe everyone is capable of committing capital crimes like murder. I mean, just look at Batman's escapades with the Joker--how many people die and get hurt before Batman ends up killing the joker and preventing future tragedy in almost every single Batman universe? Imo, Batman is guilty of incorrectly using mercy.

2. Murder cannot be predicted to an absolute:
Answer: This is true, but if we have more than reasonable suspicion that death will occur, it only makes sense to take action--you can't simply balk on a decision because major consequences are involved, sometimes you just have to can it and act! As is stated in Kotor II, at times, "Apathy is death".

Now regarding Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

First and foremost: The targets were carefully selected to cause significant military damage to Japan. The bomb on Nagasaki was furthermore dropped with the intention of minimizing civilian casualties, rather causing damage to Japan's military-industrial complex...In particular, Hiroshima was a major ordinance and supply depot, while Nagasaki was a major industrial city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

Second of all: The estimated number of casualties of the planned Amphibious invasion of Japan, Operation Downfall, was vastly larger than the number of casualties caused by the bombings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall#Estimated_casualties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

Lastly: Nuclear weapons were being developed by more than just the United States at the time. Other countries would have developed the same weapons in time. I also think it is more likely that these other countries would use these weapons (and more powerful versions of them for that matter) if their horrific effects weren't demonstrated in the field in Japan.
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