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Post Reply Be yourself.
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Posted 8/8/13 , edited 8/8/13

Bavalt wrote:



(Quote in spoilers to prevent text wall)

Similarly, while I agree with the sentiment that it's best to try to improve yourself, I disagree with how you present it here, for the simple fact that by making an effort to improve yourself, that desire becomes part of your identity. 'Self' is never a static thing. Everyone evolves, and being proactive about the way in which your evolution progresses is just as much part of your personality as anything else. By striving to be a better 'you', you are in no way denying the current 'you'. If you did, then that desire to improve would disappear. Rather, you're putting your personality itself to use as a factor in controlling its own development. The perception that you need to deny your current self to become better is practical, but false.


I get the feeling we're in agreement, but I'll make myself more clear to prevent misunderstanding. Perhaps we have a different definition of "deny," but by my understanding of the word, you must necessarily deny your "current self." Based on the fact that you believe "self is never a static thing," I'd say you'd agree with this, but it's a semantic argument that goes like this: To say that the self is not static is equivalent to saying that the self is always changing, is equivalent to saying the self is never the same, is equivalent to saying that no two selves at two different times are the same (theoretically, this isn't necessarily true, but practically speaking, you're probably right). This is a short jump to saying that the current self and the future self are two different selves. While the two selves may have a lot in common (name, hair color, religious beliefs, etc.) they are not the same self. Thus, changing (or adding) anything about yourself makes you into a different self. If you want to call that "denying" your current self, that's fine -- I get the feeling we're in agreement though.

I'm not saying that "if you want to be a better self, then you need to get rid of the things that make you your current self." (That's obviously stupid). The only thing I'm saying is that: If you take the set of things that make up your "current self", and the set of things that make up your "better self", then those sets are not equivalent. It could be that everything that makes up the "current self" is contained in the set of things that make up the "better self", but it is clear that the "future self" is not the "current self" -- they are different. That is all I meant by saying "you need to be a different person." I've never thought or said that changing yourself requires thinking that something about yourself is wrong (this is how I think you're using the word "deny"), but it does require understanding that your "current self" and your "better self" are not the same person, and that being one of them might be more beneficial than always being the other.

If I use what I think is your definition of "deny," then I probably agree with you except on one point. More than just false, I don't even think it's practical to consistently deny your current self.
Bavalt 
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Posted 8/8/13 , edited 8/8/13



Yeah, you've more or less hit the nail on the head regarding what I was trying to say. Consider it an interpretation error on my part (in the words of Mayoi Hachikuji: "Sorry, I flubbed it. :P"). I was under the impression that you did mean that one has to condemn their current self in order to improve. So, sorry about the (perhaps a bit overzealous) rebuff.
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Posted 8/8/13
Fake doesn't last for long. Fake soon becomes real
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Posted 8/8/13
I can't be the only one with a "fake" personality right
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Posted 8/8/13
But my true self is kind of a selfish jerk...
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Posted 8/8/13
be who you want, fake or not!

ON A BRIGHTER NOTE

HDQS3FU6CL5 All-Access Guest Pass - 48 Hours

^ CODE FOR A LUCKY SOMEONE WHO WANTS AN ALL ACCESS GUEST PASS
(AKA Watch anime with no commercials, totally worth it!)
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Posted 8/8/13

theYchromosome wrote:

Nice sentiment, but it becomes problematic when you don't know who you are in the first place. Even assuming you do know exactly what it is that makes you who you are, does that mean you should never try to change yourself? Ultimately, if you want to make any "improvements" to yourself, you need to be a different person. Rather, it might be better to say that you want to stop being yourself, and start being a better version of yourself.

At any rate, rather than suggest you be yourself (I'm not convinced that's a good thing, especially if you're a serial killer), I'd suggest you just act in a way that makes you satisfied and/or happy with yourself (although I don't quite like that advice either, but as far as generalized blanket statements go, it's pretty decent). It may not be "who you are," but if "who you are" sucks anyway, then trying to become someone better than "who you are" and failing leaves you in the same position.

Basically, I'm not sure I buy into the advice to "just be yourself." It's useless if you don't know who you are, and worse than useless if the person you are is unsatisfactory. Although I understand that the point of the advice is to not try to say and act in ways that are contrary to your beliefs/feelings/thoughts/etc. Fine, but I'm going to go ahead and keep trying to be better than myself... it makes a bit more sense to me. Rather, the advice to "be yourself" only ever makes sense if you're perfect, and I'm not convinced anyone like this exists.



This helped me more than the "be yourself" advice. I couldn't add anything more, great advice especially for teenagers who are going through a phase of not knowing who they are, where to go or what to do. In my mind, I always strive to be better than myself, get out of my comfort zone and explore the possibilities of life by facing my fears so I can become a better, stronger and happier myself...I'm still trying to find myself and be a better person in terms of kindness and positivism.







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Posted 8/8/13 , edited 8/8/13

HellaStrider wrote:

I hope none of you take that "be yourself!" is an excuse to not try and change problematic issues with yourself that harm others or yourself.


christ.

read my edit on the first page.

First Post - READ THE EDIT



...I admit, I am guilty for reading just the title of a forum thread and not the OP before commenting.
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Posted 8/8/13

Compl3te wrote:


HellaStrider wrote:

I hope none of you take that "be yourself!" is an excuse to not try and change problematic issues with yourself that harm others or yourself.


christ.

read my edit on the first page.

First Post - READ THE EDIT


That wasn't exactly geared towards you but the responses other people have made. I could've expanded a lot more on exactly what circumstances it applies to but it seems someone else already had a very intellectual discussion on the differences between staying "true" to yourself by ignoring change/consequences and understanding the base that makes up who you are, accepting that, and searching for ways to improve oneself.
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Posted 8/8/13

HellaStrider wrote:


Compl3te wrote:


HellaStrider wrote:

I hope none of you take that "be yourself!" is an excuse to not try and change problematic issues with yourself that harm others or yourself.


christ.

read my edit on the first page.

First Post - READ THE EDIT


That wasn't exactly geared towards you but the responses other people have made. I could've expanded a lot more on exactly what circumstances it applies to but it seems someone else already had a very intellectual discussion on the differences between staying "true" to yourself by ignoring change/consequences and understanding the base that makes up who you are, accepting that, and searching for ways to improve oneself.


yeah, I understand. also, the quote wasn't necessarily directed at you neither. you kept it short n sweet that's why I plucked yours out but I had seen too many people assuming as much. I was just talking about a small instance in time.
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Posted 8/8/13

Compl3te wrote:


HellaStrider wrote:


Compl3te wrote:


HellaStrider wrote:

I hope none of you take that "be yourself!" is an excuse to not try and change problematic issues with yourself that harm others or yourself.


christ.

read my edit on the first page.

First Post - READ THE EDIT


That wasn't exactly geared towards you but the responses other people have made. I could've expanded a lot more on exactly what circumstances it applies to but it seems someone else already had a very intellectual discussion on the differences between staying "true" to yourself by ignoring change/consequences and understanding the base that makes up who you are, accepting that, and searching for ways to improve oneself.


yeah, I understand. also, the quote wasn't necessarily directed at you neither. you kept it short n sweet that's why I plucked yours out but I had seen too many people assuming as much. I was just talking about a small instance in time.


But it's pretty difficult in general to discuss an instance of applying that theory without looking at it long term. Of course we're all set to impress the person in front of us but in the long run, they'll be looking at an idea of us rather than who we actually are. Everyone has an ability to selectively pick and choose what characteristics they should present from their set that will best reflect who they want to be or how they want to be seen, disregarding that they might have undesirable traits. I suppose your topic is much more about stories where the saying applied rather than deconstructing the saying itself haha. Yeah, with such a overused saying, you're bound to have a million posts about the saying rather than the context.
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Posted 8/8/13 , edited 8/8/13

HellaStrider wrote:
But it's pretty difficult in general to discuss an instance of applying that theory without looking at it long term. Of course we're all set to impress the person in front of us but in the long run, they'll be looking at an idea of us rather than who we actually are.

that's the beauty of impressions. wouldn't it be best to outwardly project what makes you, YOU by being yourself? so, when they know you're not keeping it real they can call you on it...




HellaStrider wrote:
Everyone has an ability to selectively pick and choose what characteristics they should present from their set that will best reflect who they want to be or how they want to be seen, disregarding that they might have undesirable traits.

I still love my friends and family, undesirable traits or not. when you can relax around the people you love, it's all accepting.

my favorite quote:
“Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.” ― Bruce Lee

-edit-
lol...I shoulda named this thread, Be water.


HellaStrider wrote:
I suppose your topic is much more about stories where the saying applied rather than deconstructing the saying itself haha. Yeah, with such a overused saying, you're bound to have a million posts about the saying rather than the context.

well said.
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Posted 8/8/13

Jagras wrote:


AshRandom wrote:

Stop being yourself, 'yourself' sucks, strive to be someone better than yourself.


What is the "self" that is better than yourself? It is your "self" still. What you said has bad logic.


No, it is not illogical, as it was a play on words. Clearly literary techniques employing clever rhetorical excursions are beyond some of us, but do at least try to grasp for meaning. Pretty please.
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Posted 8/8/13

haikinka wrote:

I can't be the only one with a "fake" personality right


It's kinda fun having multiple personalities. I always have someone different to talk to when I'm alone.
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Posted 8/8/13 , edited 8/9/13

Bavalt wrote:




Yeah, you've more or less hit the nail on the head regarding what I was trying to say. Consider it an interpretation error on my part (in the words of Mayoi Hachikuji: "Sorry, I flubbed it. :P"). I was under the impression that you did mean that one has to condemn their current self in order to improve. So, sorry about the (perhaps a bit overzealous) rebuff.


No worries, I'm perfectly willing to admit that I wasn't crystal clear with my first post, and you may not have been the only one to misunderstand me. Plus, I pretty frequently completely misread posts, so I'm no stranger to overzealous rebuffs. At any rate, I'm happy to have cleared things up.
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