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Gun Free Zone
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M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 8/25/13 , edited 8/25/13

AniMatsuri wrote:

Like most threads do once you're several pages in, the point tends to stray.

Do gun free zones make anyone there safer than one that isn't? I haven't seen any evidence here that it does.


I just linked an article on the safety of Japan, a gun free zone. That's not evidence? 2 firearm related deaths in the entire nation in one year? That's not evidence? Or is it not evidence when it goes against your beliefs.
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Posted 8/25/13
Hello concealed.. What they gonna search everyone that goes in the store or they gonna have like in the airport metal detectors.Yeah Right not happening..
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M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 8/25/13 , edited 8/25/13
"In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally. "
-http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Right, no difference in gun free zones... except about 10-30 thousand firearm deaths.

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M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 8/25/13

eldos1 wrote:


AniMatsuri wrote:

Like most threads do once you're several pages in, the point tends to stray.

Do gun free zones make anyone there safer than one that isn't? I haven't seen any evidence here that it does.


Very true. People get busted for drug position IN PRISION where everything is controlled and checked.


So would there be more drugs or less drugs if they stopped controlling the prison? Good guys with drugs will stop the bad guys with drugs?
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24 / M / Houston, Tx
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Posted 8/25/13 , edited 8/25/13

bensonc120 wrote:

"In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally. "
-http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Right, no difference in gun free zones... except about 10-30 thousand firearm deaths.



When it comes to firearms, comparing countries with a list of differences too long to count does not work. One could say the US has around 19k-21k firearm related suicides per year, and Japan has around double the the suicide rate of the US. It's not breaking news, but it looks like killing yourself [or another] doesn't require a gun. On a more positive note the homicide by firearm rate has dropped 50% in the US over the past 2 decades, while the amount of guns and owners over that span has done nothing but increase.

While I personally think that trying to create and regulate gun free zones is waste of time and a few signs, areas out of them obviously aren't perfect. On average in larger towns and cities in the US the crime and homicide rates are double the national average. From there you can even go to the neighborhood level to find the problem areas. Take a drive in any major US city. It isn't all that hard to find differences in income levels or see the gang signs.
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Posted 8/25/13 , edited 8/25/13

okAndrew wrote:

When it comes to firearms, comparing countries with a list of differences too long to count does not work. One could say the US has around 19k-21k firearm related suicides per year, and Japan has around double the the suicide rate of the US. It's not breaking news, but it looks like killing yourself [or another] doesn't require a gun. On a more positive note the homicide by firearm rate has dropped 50% in the US over the past 2 decades, while the amount of guns and owners over that span has done nothing but increase.


I agree that suicides will happen whether it be firearms, pills, jumping off the bridge, etc. But killing is a lot easier with a gun than with other weapons. There is a reason our soldiers don't go into war with Samurai swords instead of guns. Also you are conveniently leaving out gun deaths from accidents.
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M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 8/25/13

Hibria187 wrote:

Never have the teachers armed.... are you joking???? do you know what high school teachers go through on a daily basis??? I was once a high school student and i would have loved to pick myself off and a couple of other students.... You need trained professionals to do this job....... Never arm teachers at alll


Exactly. Some schools have a real policeman assigned to the campus. But you have to be a complete moron to want to arm the teachers. Teachers are there to teach our kids not shoot them.
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24 / M / Houston, Tx
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Posted 8/25/13

bensonc120 wrote:


I agree that suicides will happen whether it be firearms, pills, jumping off the bridge, etc. But killing is a lot easier with a gun than with other weapons. Also you are conveniently leaving out gun deaths from accidents.


So out of the 30,000ish gun related deaths in the US, you're going to call me out on the .02% firearm deaths by accidents(around 600 in 2010)? There's a similar number to justifiable homicides with firearms by law enforcement and citizens. The chances of dying by an accidental discharge is somewhere around 1 in 510,000. You're more likely to die riding your bike or falling down the stairs. I'm not going to argue that guns make killing easier, but most rarely leave the safe or whatever place the owner leaves them in their house. When the weapons do leave those places, they're more than likely to be handled with respect. If you can't handle one properly and the thought of learning how didn't cross your mind before or after you bought it, you shouldn't own one.
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20 / M / Way outside the box
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Posted 8/25/13
I don't even care anymore I mean the gun free zone doesn't actually fix any of the problems but whatever let the people do what they want it doesn't effect me maybe it will later on but I will cross that bridge when I come to it
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M / Los Angeles, CA
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Posted 8/25/13
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-californias-gun-laws-have-worked-2013-8

California, the state with the strictest gun laws in the country, has seen a 56% drop in its gun death rate in the past 20 years, according to a study that the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence released last week.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-californias-gun-laws-have-worked-2013-8#ixzz2d3K7Lhlk
Posted 8/25/13 , edited 8/26/13
Just to jump into this conversation, lets first of all be honest about this. What is the difference that another law is going to make to stop a person from already breaking the law in the first place? If they actually committed murder the fact is they had no care about any law, gun free zone, or whatever other law they broke. Take for example the Christopher Lane killing just recently, none of those kids could even legally own a gun and even to top it they had 3! Taking that in mind whether it was a gun free zone in which they killed him in it wouldn't of even mattered to them.

As to debunk your statistics of "56%" drop in gun crime, maybe it has happened, but the reality of the fact is barely a 47% drop has even been seen in murder OVERALL. As it stands, here is the statistics for murder for California for the last two decades, and by year.

2012 - 1,878
2011 - 1,794
2010 - 1,809
2009 - 1,970
2008 - 2,143
2007 - 2,258
2006 - 2,483
2005 - 2,503
2004 - 2,394
2003 - 2,402
2002 - 2,392
2001 - 2,201
2000 - 2,074
1999 - 2,006
1998 - 2,170
1997 - 2,579
1996 - 2,910
1995 - 3,530
1994 - 3,699
1993 - 4,095
1992 - 3,920

Source:
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/cjsc/publications/candd/cd12/cd12.pdf


Edit:

In truth, only a total overall change in murder has been a 47.9% change, but the issue is if you read further, the fact is 70% overall is still committed by a gun, and even comparing the statistics ranging from 2007 to 2012 that they provide in said publication, it says the following for homicide by GUN specifically:

2012 - 1,303
2011 - 1,226
2010 - 1,255
2009 - 1,359
2008 - 1,487
2007 - 1,611


Taking that into consideration, the possibility of gun murders being directly effected by laws proves nothing, the murder rates have no statistically downward spiral besides just an overall total. If anything it just means someone is just killed by some other means, at least in 2012, it reflects just people adopting other means to kill someone, not stopping it.
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M / Universe :0
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Posted 8/25/13 , edited 8/25/13
In a perfect world, no guns, no problem. Sadly our world is far from that so I say no to the gun ban. It harms the publics interest.
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26 / M / Socal
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Posted 8/25/13
people kill people

we need it to be hard to kill each other
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It doesn't matter.
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Posted 8/26/13
I want to wear a bomb and not have to worry about other people's paranoia and the dangerous actions they may take in such a senario
Dragon
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Posted 8/26/13
Hi, folks,

It's fine to disagree with each other, but please keep it civil. No personal attacks/insults.

-Makoto
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