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Artificial Intelligence
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Posted 1/27/08

supermalv wrote:


muera wrote:


sacrificed21 wrote:


addicted2chocolate wrote:

well, computers will only do what it is programmed to do right? so if you will only program these robots to do the things that you want them to do, then i don't see the probability of it disobeying you. unless you programmed it to do the exact opposite of what you ordered.

the movies you mentioned are obviously fictional and directors want something great, something eyecatching, something unreal. they may be based on what can happen but they are altered for the story to have an unexpectable twist. thus, making a blockbuster hit. they may or may not happen but the probability of a computer to have human emotions is extremely low.


agreed

i also agree..well if u have doubt AI will have the capability 2 terminate us..then don't program them to disobey your commands ryt??Humans indeed have it's power over it's creations...



what if the A.I is so developed that it forms a sentient mind of it's own? And no, that's not impossible. With science, everything is possible.

The big question is: If they take over the humans, then what are we going to do? well... If it was me, i'd let them.

I'll elaborate why:

Just because we are one of the human race, we begin to develop this biased point of view about our own existence in this earth. We think that us a human race, we are the only existance who have the right to rule over this earth. We always set up ourself to be the centre of the universe. As a hero. As a survivor. What a bunch of crap.

Don't get me wrong.I love my self. I love my being. But absolutely nobody can't deny that we as a human race, are a poison to this planet. It was barely 10.000 years (more or less) since human civilization took form. (The friggin dinosaurs exist for 160 million years with them preserving their species perfectly.) And yet, you see all kind of problem already with us and this planet, in that relatively short span of time. Global warming. Overpopulation. Nations with nuclear arms. Wars. You name it.

You can see the fate of humankinds already. You can see the pattern. We are inevitably driving ourselves towards our doom. And there's absolutely nothing that nobody can do about it. We are selfish. We, as a human being, we were born with a degree of insanity ingrained deep within our psyche. Our sole purpose of existance is for what? To satisfy our ego! To be: at all times, superior to our other human peers no matter what the cost. And what makes it worse is that we exist with knowledge and intelligence. You do the math. Ego + Capability and intelligence to destroy = Self-destruction.

But nobody can do a goddamn thing about it. It's just us. We are human with flesh and souls. Petty desires and earthly lust.

Not the A.I. We can end our own madness with the possiblity of *their* existance.

For me, i'd think that they're the next step on our line of evolution. We can't transcend ourself further. Us humans. We have reached our peak. Our job here in this earth is done. It's time to make way to another being who's more capable to evolute themselves.


How do you know we are finished? You give no logical reason that we can not advance
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Posted 1/27/08

excalion wrote:

If the A.I. actually obtained sentience as we described such a thing, they would be as fucked as we are right now.


nope. You know why?

becoz their reason to exist differs from us humans.

We are created, from the moment of our birth till the day we die, to experience pleasure. And as sick as it is. One of the greatest pleasure a human can get is when you know you are superior from another human being.

That's the whole reason for capitalism isn't it? (which is the basic model for all the developed country that pretty much rules the earth right now). With communism we can have the opportunity to all be equal. But yet we enjoy capitalism world more. We enjoy being unequal. We enjoy being greater.

A.I doesn't have that same ego as us.

A.I doesn't mind equality.

A.I won't pollute this earth. (since their body will be machines)

A.I won't do something so illogical like having a nuclear war even though it endangers their own existance.

@youaredumb:

well.. given the trend you see on the news today..

currently we developed a nuclear weapon that can potentially destroy the whole earth already. What the fuck do you think they are gonna use it for? an ornament in the military base so the place looks cooler?

If we do evolute further. What do u think we're going to use our own intelligence for? a better military weaponry! how do we suppose to evolve when there'll be no more of us left in this earth? u know what i mean?? : S
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Posted 1/27/08

addicted2chocolate wrote:

well, computers will only do what it is programmed to do right? so if you will only program these robots to do the things that you want them to do, then i don't see the probability of it disobeying you. unless you programmed it to do the exact opposite of what you ordered.

the movies you mentioned are obviously fictional and directors want something great, something eyecatching, something unreal. they may be based on what can happen but they are altered for the story to have an unexpectable twist. thus, making a blockbuster hit. they may or may not happen but the probability of a computer to have human emotions is extremely low.


That is such an ideal, that computers will only obey our commands. Computers make the most mistakes and even good programming can lead to errors, haven't you ever heard the phrase "To err is human, to truly screw things up requires a computer". I don't ever see the possibility of AI existing though, since Ai is man trying to create something in his own image, not only are they incapable of creating something that could rebell against them but they would never let such a thing happen.

Humans get sick at the idea of having another intelligent lifeform to rival their own. On a completely diffrent note, much unity between humans would be achieved should they have a common enemy so if i am wrong and AI is made on par or above humans i don't consider it such a bad thing.
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Posted 1/27/08

supermalv wrote:

becoz their reason to exist differs from us humans.

We are created, from the moment of our birth till the day we die, to experience pleasure. And as sick as it is. One of the greatest pleasure a human can get is when you know you are superior from another human being.

That's the whole reason for capitalism isn't it? (which is the basic model for all the developed country that pretty much rules the earth right now). With communism we can have the opportunity to all be equal. But yet we enjoy capitalism world more. We enjoy being unequal. We enjoy being greater.

A.I doesn't have that same ego as us.

A.I doesn't mind equality.

A.I won't pollute this earth. (since their body will be machines)

A.I won't do something so illogical like having a nuclear war even though it endangers their own existance.


If their reason to exist differs from us, then they would not have achieved sentience as we our common definitions prescribes it.

The real line separating Intellect and Artificial Intellect is not whether something is programmable. It is the NATURE of the program. The human psyche and the robot hard-drive are not as different as you might imagine. Free will is but a comforting thought, whether it truly exists is a question of debate in itself. But back to our topic, both 'minds' are guided by a set of, rules, if you will. The rules appear in humans as hormones and instincts, in robots as lines upon lines of codes. A.I. appears to be logical, because it is our logical minds that created/wrote their rules to which they function. If the 'why' portion to how humans behave was solved completely and without a doubt, after the examination of a person's 'why' portion, we would also be able to predict how such a person will respond in any situation, or the probability of a certain decision in an unknown situation.

As I mentioned before, the difference lies in the nature of these rules, as human beings are able to self-manipulate new rules into existence by means of experience. A robot whom has achieved sentience, by the conventional definition, will be able to do the same. The only way for such an AI sentient existence to...exist is if the AI has an interest and understanding of 'self'(for without such, it will not self-upgrade with new 'rules'). And such an understand will in the near future of this AI's existence morph itself with its newfound capabilities into an ego on par with man. This is the only scenario that could possibly result with a 'true' sentient robotic race annihilating human beings to take over the world.

Any other scenario will only be a result in what I have mentioned in a previous post. A careless programmer at a nuclear bomb facility shooting himself, and the entire human race, in the foot by a program bug which loopholes to the AI following 'predetermined' rules and destroying humans on a technicality.
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Posted 1/27/08

supermalv wrote:
That's the whole reason for capitalism isn't it? (which is the basic model for all the developed country that pretty much rules the earth right now). With communism we can have the opportunity to all be equal. But yet we enjoy capitalism world more. We enjoy being unequal. We enjoy being greater.


Communism in theory is the most supreme form of democracy (democracy is the model countries follow, capitalism is a economy ideology, just to let you know). Democracies might not follow the economic model of capitalism. The ideology of Capitalism is predominantly paired with the theory of Laissez-Faire which means "let it happen". Governments are not allowed to intervene in the Economy at all. In the real world, this is definitely not the case. 'Super power' U.S. of A offers Social Security, Medical Aid and food stamps that go against the Capitalism Idea that assumes help will be given through the market and charity. Even the lovely New Zealand you live in has all these aids for her citizens, isn't it?

just to get back to topic, I personally believe that A.I.'s won't take over the world in the future. if what happened in "I, Robot" really happened, it'd be scary. but with all these discussion going on, I'm sure a smart scientist who will be as much as or smarter than Einstein will come along and think of an answer to this, in a way ordinary people like us can't think of.
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Posted 1/27/08

toelovehan wrote:


supermalv wrote:
That's the whole reason for capitalism isn't it? (which is the basic model for all the developed country that pretty much rules the earth right now). With communism we can have the opportunity to all be equal. But yet we enjoy capitalism world more. We enjoy being unequal. We enjoy being greater.


Communism in theory is the most supreme form of democracy (democracy is the model countries follow, capitalism is a economy ideology, just to let you know). Democracies might not follow the economic model of capitalism. The ideology of Capitalism is predominantly paired with the theory of Laissez-Faire which means "let it happen". Governments are not allowed to intervene in the Economy at all. In the real world, this is definitely not the case. 'Super power' U.S. of A offers Social Security, Medical Aid and food stamps that go against the Capitalism Idea that assumes help will be given through the market and charity. Even the lovely New Zealand you live in has all these aids for her citizens, isn't it?

just to get back to topic, I personally believe that A.I.'s won't take over the world in the future. if what happened in "I, Robot" really happened, it'd be scary. but with all these discussion going on, I'm sure a smart scientist who will be as much as or smarter than Einstein will come along and think of an answer to this, in a way ordinary people like us can't think of.


My point was.. in comunism everybody is supposed to be equal. Which i don't think is working because, we actually need a capitalism mind for our civilization thrive. To compete is to make progress..

I was pointing out this unavoidable competitive nature of humans.. And how this will actually work against ourselves.

If we are animals, maybe to compete is to transcend to a higher being than the previous ones. But we have this massive intelligence with us.

We compete.

But we compete in a whole diffrent level.

Like.. a nuclear warhead level.

I was saying that... A.I. would be a solution, because, if they are sentient. Then they won't be as illogical as us to destroy this planet with modern weaponry. Because unlike us, their decision will be based on reasons instead of hates, anger or greed.

A.I. would see. That if a nuclear war breaks out, then if they actually do it.. then everything will be over. But man.. There's no limit to how mad can a person be.. know wat i mean??
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Posted 1/27/08
Just a thought here, I see people write over and over that since it's programmed to do this and that according to its software and won't attack its master and so on back and forth..

But what if someone sends a virus that makes the software malfunction? If AI robots become like it's in GitS then AI robots would be the new way of killing people, just hacking inside etc and slaughtering.
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Posted 1/27/08

goldenmegazx wrote:

well as today's world leans more and more in to computers and other high-tech devices, the demand and capabilities for these devices grow. some machines and early robots are even implemented with human thoughts. though we all saw what A.I(Artificial Intelligence) leads to in movies such as the terminator movies and Irobot..though it may seem like a ridiculous question but...do you think A.I will eventually reach it's point of disobeying it's creator? and why or why not? Now I'm not making this thread to be funny but as the world leans to high-tech devices..maybe years from now some supercomputer might use the world's "handicap" towards it advantage


Yes, in our term (programmer), it is called errors or bugs .
Disregarding the joke, any correct program can only do what it is programmed to do. Thus it is not possible in any way for a program does something entirely different then what it is programmed to do, bugs and errors aside.



and to add to that..is the world becoming too reliable on computers and other high tech devices, is it the right direction to be heading into?


Yes, we're lazy ass people and money grubber.
What is the right direction? Not left I suppose
Seriously, computers makes life easy and generates money, what do you want?

If you ever study Artificial Intelligence and Neural Network, you know that, even though IA is powerful it is severly limited. Unless we're talking about the existence of superfast computer with virtually limitless memory, what you're talking about will remain in the movie. And no, Deep Blue is highly specialize computer system, it does not count (if you're thinking of arguing back). What AI is useful for is to be our obidient slave.
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Posted 1/27/08

AHTL wrote:

Just a thought here, I see people write over and over that since it's programmed to do this and that according to its software and won't attack its master and so on back and forth..

But what if someone sends a virus that makes the software malfunction? If AI robots become like it's in GitS then AI robots would be the new way of killing people, just hacking inside etc and slaughtering.


hahahahaha I love you
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Posted 1/27/08

toelovehan wrote:
just to get back to topic, I personally believe that A.I.'s won't take over the world in the future. if what happened in "I, Robot" really happened, it'd be scary. but with all these discussion going on, I'm sure a smart scientist who will be as much as or smarter than Einstein will come along and think of an answer to this, in a way ordinary people like us can't think of.


Yes but we cant all be 'super smart' and all it takes is one dumb person to screw up...
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Posted 1/27/08

excalion wrote:


AHTL wrote:

Just a thought here, I see people write over and over that since it's programmed to do this and that according to its software and won't attack its master and so on back and forth..

But what if someone sends a virus that makes the software malfunction? If AI robots become like it's in GitS then AI robots would be the new way of killing people, just hacking inside etc and slaughtering.


hahahahaha I love you


What? :(

I was being serious
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Posted 1/27/08

AHTL wrote:


excalion wrote:


AHTL wrote:

Just a thought here, I see people write over and over that since it's programmed to do this and that according to its software and won't attack its master and so on back and forth..

But what if someone sends a virus that makes the software malfunction? If AI robots become like it's in GitS then AI robots would be the new way of killing people, just hacking inside etc and slaughtering.


hahahahaha I love you


What? :(

I was being serious


lol no, its just its not every day someone thinks of something I completely overlooked. We're sitting here yelling at each other until our faces turn red..but we are all assuming a perfect working environment (which is obviously not our world). Something like a virus didn't even come up at all in the discussion, but when you brought it up..it was like...DUH! XD
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AHTL 
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Posted 1/27/08

excalion wrote:


AHTL wrote:


excalion wrote:


AHTL wrote:

Just a thought here, I see people write over and over that since it's programmed to do this and that according to its software and won't attack its master and so on back and forth..

But what if someone sends a virus that makes the software malfunction? If AI robots become like it's in GitS then AI robots would be the new way of killing people, just hacking inside etc and slaughtering.


hahahahaha I love you


What? :(

I was being serious


lol no, its just its not every day someone thinks of something I completely overlooked. We're sitting here yelling at each other until our faces turn red..but we are all assuming a perfect working environment (which is obviously not our world). Something like a virus didn't even come up at all in the discussion, but when you brought it up..it was like...DUH! XD


Ah, I see ^^

And lets not forget the human factor of failure ~_~
Not everything we make works perfectly the first time, or the second time and so on...

And it doesn't have to a a dumb person to screw things up, could be a angry intelligent person who's quite skilled at AI.
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Posted 1/27/08

excalion wrote:

*uses the most useless word in english language*

indeed.


Indeed, the most hollow word in the English language :P

With the making of AI the need for stronger firewalls would probably be prudent. Since the hacking attacks would probably be stronger ~_~
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Posted 1/27/08

goldenmegazx wrote:

well as today's world leans more and more in to computers and other high-tech devices, the demand and capabilities for these devices grow. some machines and early robots are even implemented with human thoughts. though we all saw what A.I(Artificial Intelligence) leads to in movies such as the terminator movies and Irobot..though it may seem like a ridiculous question but...do you think A.I will eventually reach it's point of disobeying it's creator? and why or why not? Now I'm not making this thread to be funny but as the world leans to high-tech devices..maybe years from now some supercomputer might use the world's "handicap" towards it advantage

and to add to that..is the world becoming too reliable on computers and other high tech devices, is it the right direction to be heading into?


mods....feel free to lock this thread if you think it doesn't match the requirements of being in the Extended Disscussion Thread


In the future, as some scientists claim, the better technologies bring better artificial Intelligence. Computers will be smarter than human brain, and there won't be any possibility that those A. I will obey their creators. I believe they will make us as slave, robots will be human, and us being a robot.


Yes, the world can't stand without technologies. There is limit for it though.
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