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If if is racist to require an ID when voting, what is it called when they require ID to buy beer, open a checking accoun
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31 / M
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Posted 8/27/13

kaptainkooleio wrote:

FUCK THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE, if 90% of the country wants the right guy, but their district votes for the other party, than is it fair?

I vote for a democratic communism reformation


lol, that should almost never happen in the general election at least not 90%. But I see your point. In state elections its very possible through gerrymandering (redistricting along party lines which is legal and done more often when a republican governor gets in control) which is why the house is still controlled by republicans despite most people being progressives. And this conservative supreme court won't rule it unconstitutional. If it were just by the people the republicans would not win another major election until they change their values to reflect 2013 as opposed to 1913.
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44 / M / WA
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Posted 8/27/13 , edited 8/27/13
Voter Fraud is extremely hard to prove so there isn't much to back up claims of fraud. Found something on the Florida 2000 vote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/ccrdraft060401.htm
Claims of disenfranchisement seem to be a little hard to prove and an outdated voting system seems more to blame.

In the State of Washington Dino Rossi won in 1994 when the election results came in; there was a recount and he won ...by a few less votes this time; there was a THIRD recount - and VOILA! enough extra ballots had been "found" (in the heavily Democratic King county) to place Gregoire in the Govenor's chair. If that isn't a case of voter fraud, I don't know what is.

We want all eligible voters to vote - which Voter ID will help ensure. We know felons have voted who have not had their rights restored. Voter fraud isn't much of a problem when one side has a vast majority - but in tight elections it most certainly does matter. Voter fraud can take place on both sides, but we know felons voting illegally vote overwhelmingly Democratic. I don't care which party is favored, protecting the integrity of the voting process is a good idea.

This country is not overwhelmingly liberal - if it were, elections would not be close. Elections are close precisely because the country is divided.

There was a story not too long ago about a conservative man married to a liberal woman; he trusted her to mail in the ballot he had filled out ...but she threw it away.

Voters are not disenfranchised by having to show and ID - those who do not have the right to vote are disenfranchised - which is a very good thing. In any case most people don't vote; what is it, less then half in a presidential election? Most people disenfranchise themselves.

I saw the black panther photo - two black panthers wearing military or paramilitary uniforms - one carrying a billy club and spouting racial slurs; people were observed turning away without voting ...and its on camera. Police force one man to leave but allowed the other to stay as he was a certified pole watcher.

The electoral college was designed so that the votes of small states count, otherwise candidates would only have to go to the big states. One good change would be to have the states award half their votes to the winner and the other have award by who won that district. The college is not going away because the small states are not going to give up their influence to the more populated states.
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52 / M / In
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Posted 8/27/13
why does this sound like someone is just pissed they had to go to the DMV to get an id and then come on the fourms and vent about because they had to stand in line for a few minutes
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M / Fort Bragg, NC
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Posted 8/27/13
I don't see a real analogy here.
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31 / M
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Posted 8/27/13

dougeprofile wrote:

Voter Fraud is extremely hard to prove so there isn't much to back up claims of fraud. Found something on the Florida 2000 vote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/ccrdraft060401.htm
Claims of disenfranchisement seem to be a little hard to prove and an outdated voting system seems more to blame.

In the State of Washington Dino Rossi won in 1994 when the election results came in; there was a recount and he won ...by a few less votes this time; there was a THIRD recount - and VOILA! enough extra ballots had been "found" (in the heavily Democratic King county) to place Gregoire in the Govenor's chair. If that isn't a case of voter fraud, I don't know what is.

We want all eligible voters to vote - which Voter ID will help ensure. We know felons have voted who have not had their rights restored. Voter fraud isn't much of a problem when one side has a vast majority - but in tight elections it most certainly does matter. Voter fraud can take place on both sides, but we know felons voting illegally vote overwhelmingly Democratic. I don't care which party is favored, protecting the integrity of the voting process is a good idea.

This country is not overwhelmingly liberal - if it were, elections would not be close. Elections are close precisely because the country is divided.

There was a story not too long ago about a conservative man married to a liberal woman; he trusted her to mail in the ballot he had filled out ...but she threw it away.

Voters are not disenfranchised by having to show and ID - those who do not have the right to vote are disenfranchised - which is a very good thing. In any case most people don't vote; what is it, less then half in a presidential election? Most people disenfranchise themselves.

I saw the black panther photo - two black panthers wearing military or paramilitary uniforms - one carrying a billy club and spouting racial slurs; people were observed turning away without voting ...and its on camera. Police force one man to leave but allowed the other to stay as he was a certified pole watcher.



The link you posted backs exactly what I said. Minorities 54% more likely to have their ballots rejected in florida, and those are just the ones who werent turned away at the polls. Meanwhile Jeb Bush ignored mounting evidence of voter fraud...which may have overturned his brother's election (a brother who said confidently he'd win florida and all news outlets were convinced he'd lost following exit polls the day of).

Dino Rossi's case was in 2004 firstly, secondly the difference in votes was 239 initially, obviously enough for a recount, thirdly the republican standard was applied to how the recounts were performed as opposed to the democratic requested universal standard, and finally the change was due to rejected absentee ballots, not people coming in and falsely voting. Voter ID laws wouldnt have changed absentee voting even if they were in place and this turned out to be fraud. If you're going to give an example at least give one that your requested law would address.

Voter ID laws are nothing but an added barrier to prevent people whose ancestors fought hard for them to have the right to vote to begin with. The country is overwhelmingly more liberal than conservative with some gray in the middle based on US standards of what it means to be in these parties currently. But enough people don't vote who are liberal, can't vote because they've been disenfranchised have easily caught a charge after being heavily profiled (see the ron paul link or research it), or aren't yet US citizens but are residents here nonetheless. Even taking away those people the majority of the country is still left of center. Obama won by a margin conservatives said before the election would be a landslide if Romney had those numbers. And the country is only getting more liberal with all expectations that even Texas will be a blue state by 2020.

The conservative mans ballot has nothing to do with voter id laws...

OK so it was 2 guys..not one/ at one polling location out of tens of thousands. Just to give you an idea of the number of voter intimidation issues that have come up on the other side between 2000 and 2006 (but of course minorities are in the minority and many of these are in conservative states):http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/08/15/237026/-GOP-Dirty-Tricks-and-Voter-Intimidation-Since-2000 (I realize its KOS but thats just one that had them nicely organized as opposed to pooling them from various news sites) not to mention more systematic voter suppression and confusion: http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/florida-voter-intimidation-investigated-fbi/story?id=17565488. These are the common issues you see. Not these rare instances of voter fraud, or the two guys who have probably turned away 2 people if that, and police forced the one who had the club and shouted racial slurs to leave.

I'll be back later have to get on with my day but have a duty not to let this nonsense go unchallenged.
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19 / F / USA
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Posted 8/27/13

dougeprofile wrote:


spectralMagician wrote:


dougeprofile wrote:

States with voter ID laws have provisions for anyone who can't afford it to get free ID. So how are these laws racist, especially when so many areas in society require ID? Isn't it racist to suggest a black person is incapable of getting ID??


I... What? Aren't you the racist one who's implying that the people who can't afford to get an ID are black? It says anyone, what are you even talking about.


That is precisely what people on the left accuse conservatives of doing; substitute for "minority" for "black" if it makes you feel better.


Are you trying to cover for yourself right now? I'm pretty sure you changed the wording in the original post. And for the record, you wrote black in your post, you're the one posting accusations. No one is substituting anything for anything else.
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 8/27/13

dougeprofile wrote:


swirly_commode wrote:


dougeprofile wrote:

States with voter ID laws have provisions for anyone who can't afford it to get free ID. So how are these laws racist, especially when so many areas in society require ID? Isn't it racist to suggest a black person is incapable of getting ID?? Seems like a very good idea requiring ID when voting so as to cut down on fraud.


its not racist
voting is a constitutional right
you dont need an ID to exercise your constitutional rights....

whats next? speech ID? an ID to practice your religion, we could put a little star of david on the jewish people, a cross on the christians....



now go post something smart in the gun thread
lol


There there, (pat) (pat); I'm sure to get around to posting in the gun thread, don't worry ya'all little heat 'bout that now.

The ID is not required to exercise one's constitutional right to vote, it is to prove you are who you say you are. It is my constitutional right to vote, but that vote is negated when a person votes twice or a dead person votes; students attending school in one state and voting in another is another problem that needs to be fixed.

Speaking of guns - You have to show ID and undergo a background check when buying a gun - your argument would mean background checks for guns are unconstitutional!

Everyone - including minorities must show ID to get into the Democratic convention too.


And if you show up with no ID they still let you exercise your constitutional right?
Or do you get denied? If you get denied your right to vote then the system is truly broken. If you are still allowed to vote with no ID then what good are tgey doing?
So take your pick, deny people their rights or stop with the id crap
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Posted 8/27/13 , edited 8/27/13
Orphenocou, I know some single mothers, some that have no cars and work many hours to make ends meet. However, there are some things people need to find the time to do. Like I said, your scenario is not impossible, but it is not widespread. For starters, said mothers still need bank accounts (usually to negotiate paychecks and pay bills). One needs a valid ID order to establish a bank account now days. If they don't have a bank account, they probably cash their pay checks- which would would also require a valid ID, because check cashing centers would be risking huge losses if they did not verify that the payee off the check is actually the person in front of them. If they are getting paid in cash, they still need to cash their annual income tax check, which-guess what- would also require an ID. Just curious... how many ladies have you personally met that are in this situation?

I can believe stats about minority women being paid less thank others for the same job, but that itself is not a deterrent from one having a valid ID, specially because of the aforementioned reasons.

In my line of work, I've met people in all walks of life. I've meet single mothers with long commutes, people with no money, and people with a lot to spare. When I was a kid, my dad (a minority) worked hard at two jobs. We didn't have the internet because it was not the commodity that it is today. He hardly had time to watch TV. And yet, he knew when there was elections. Since you yourself work, you know that on Presidential Elections Day and the days preceding it, all one hears about is... elections. As busy as some people are, I've never met anyone who was unaware that the presidential elections are coming up- it's simply impossible unless one is a hermit.

Who is going to claim one's real ID is fake? Would you let someone do that to you? I know I wouldn't, and neither would anyone in my family, or my many friends/acquaintances (single mothers included). Do you personally know people to whom this has happened to in the US? This may happen in other countries, where corruption is blatant. I know this country is far from perfect, but corruption is not so open, to where people would be outright told their real IDs are fake. Anyone doing that would be asking for a lawsuit. Also, one can't just go to another polling place if they can't vote at their own. They assign them for a reason.
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48 / M
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Posted 8/27/13
It's just a knee-jerk reaction to find something new to scream about discrimination...and usually the ones making the most noise are famous people who have nothing better to do...don't get me wrong...my personal politics are predominantly moderate to liberal...but if the idea of requiring ID, tightening immigration policies and requiring drug tests for welfare (my job is regulated by Federal Regulations and requires periodic drug testing...why shouldn't someone living on my taxes) make me a card-carrying poor-hating-fascist/conservative...then so be it...

...and you forgot one...you need ID to get a job...for the I-9 form you need at least two (sometimes three) form of ID)...
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28 / F / USA
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Posted 8/27/13
I live in Virginia where you need an ID to vote. There is way if you don't have an id or forgot yours but the requires putting your vote in limbo until they can prove that is you. Which could take days and by that point it does not really matter(unless its a close race). I really do think everyone should be able freely vote. But on the other hand, My Grandmother who been dead for 15 years still votes in Pennsylvania.

There is no right answer to this problem.
Posted 8/27/13
It's not racist.
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44 / M / WA
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Posted 8/27/13

spectralMagician wrote:


dougeprofile wrote:


spectralMagician wrote:


dougeprofile wrote:

States with voter ID laws have provisions for anyone who can't afford it to get free ID. So how are these laws racist, especially when so many areas in society require ID? Isn't it racist to suggest a black person is incapable of getting ID??


I... What? Aren't you the racist one who's implying that the people who can't afford to get an ID are black? It says anyone, what are you even talking about.


That is precisely what people on the left accuse conservatives of doing; substitute for "minority" for "black" if it makes you feel better.


Are you trying to cover for yourself right now? I'm pretty sure you changed the wording in the original post. And for the record, you wrote black in your post, you're the one posting accusations. No one is substituting anything for anything else.


(Sigh) I was just trying to clarify the post a little ...but for YOU I'll add the word back in.
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19 / F / USA
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Posted 8/27/13

dougeprofile wrote:
or the record, you wrote black in your post, you're the one posting accusations. No one is substituting anything for anything else.


(Sigh) I was just trying to clarify the post a little ...but for YOU I'll add the word back in.

Good on you. It makes you look less foolish.
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M / Under your bed
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Posted 8/27/13
LoL americans...........
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44 / M / WA
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Posted 8/27/13


The link I posted casts doubt on your claim that discrimination was the reason; the article also cites poor equipment and lack of capacity to handle the surge in voters. What voter fraud? Didn't you say their was no proof of voter fraud in the U.S.? or does this fraud only appear when you loose an election?

Dino was in 2004 ...Florida was in 20000 - your point? Felons did vote in the 2004 election which could have mad a difference ...there just wasn't enough proof for the judge to overturn the THIRD set of election results. The ballots that lost Dino the election were "discovered" in a box somewhere in Democratically controlled King County. Military ballots were also disenfranchised in that election. Yea, voter ID would have made a difference.

Voter ID is only a barrier to some guy walking into some polling place and using the name of a dead person to vote. It is no barrier to anyone else. So a black man coming in to vote with an ID will get turned away but a black man without an ID won't? That makes no sense.

America is not overwhelmingly liberal. Texas a blue state? Sounds like a Democratic pipe dream ...not happening.

I can't let this nonsense go unchallenged either.
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