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If if is racist to require an ID when voting, what is it called when they require ID to buy beer, open a checking accoun
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Posted 8/27/13 , edited 8/27/13
Swirly_Commode: Since I wasn't at the restaurant with you and your friend, I can't assess whether the establishment was being racist in refusing to take his out-of-state ID. My guess would be that they didn't have the means to verify it's authenticity and were afraid that it might be fake. It isn't fair to your friend, but then, drinking isn't a constitutional right either... right? When I was asking Orphenocou if he/she knew of anyone that it happened to in the US, I was referring to someone attempting to exercise their right to vote at a polling place. Either way, maybe you and your friend could have brought this up to the Better Business Bureau or something.

I know it's easy to get a fake ID now days. That, however, doesn't impede people from getting real IDs. My point is that one's status as a minority doesn't prevent us from getting IDs. Why do we limit ourselves?

I'm not saying requiring IDs will prevent voter fraud. However, I still don't see how its racist if it is asked of everyone. I'm just tired of people claiming racism for everything, when it isn't always the case. It takes away credibility from legitimate claims of racism. Because, yes, racism still exists. I just don't claim to be a victim of it every time someone asks to see my ID.

Of course checking accounts are not a constitutional right. I just brought them up in my reply to the Orphenocou to point out why even busy, minority single moms might need an ID. By chance did you read what he/she and I had posted earlier? I stand by my assertion that it is highly unlikely that anyone doesn't have enough time to get a state-issued ID.
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 8/27/13


Fail.

You have the right to travel. However you dont have the right to travel onto somebodies private property without their consent. Why not? Because it violates their rights. So clearly your rights stop where another persons rights begins.

You have the right to vote. However you dont have the right to vote as SOMEBODY ELSE. Because your rights stop where their rights begins.

In the process of voting, you need to prove you are who you say you are, so that somebody elses rights are not violated, therefore your right is not being denied. It is you who is denying your own vote by not proving you are who you say you are.
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 8/27/13

uncletim wrote:


swirly_commode wrote:


Voter I.D.s are not unconstitutional and no they dont violate anybodies rights.

You have the right to vote AS YOURSELF, but you dont have the right to vote AS SOMEBODY ELSE.


you also have the right to not be denied the right to vote FOR ANY REASON, including not being able to produce an ID.
requiring an ID to vote is only unconstitutional when it denies people their ability to exercise their right to vote.


then how do you stop someone from voting twice?



do you vote?
did you vote twice?
neither me nor anybody i know has ever voted twice, either.
and, guess what, i dont have a voter id... shhhhh
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 8/27/13


So because of your anecdotal evidence which says you havent seen it, therefore it doesnt happen?

What kind of pathetic attempt at logic is this?
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Posted 8/27/13

Fail.

You have the right to travel. However you dont have the right to travel onto somebodies private property without their consent. Why not? Because it violates their rights. So clearly your rights stop where another persons rights begins.

You have the right to vote. However you dont have the right to vote as SOMEBODY ELSE. Because your rights stop where their rights begins.

In the process of voting, you need to prove you are who you say you are, so that somebody elses rights are not violated, therefore your right is not being denied. It is you who is denying your own vote by not proving you are who you say you are.


i have the right to vote
my right to vote shall not be impeded FOR ANY REASON.
this is a constitutional right.
the "right to travel" is not constitutional nor is it even a real right.
do you know what a right is?
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52 / M / In
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Posted 8/27/13

swirly_commode wrote:


uncletim wrote:


swirly_commode wrote:


Voter I.D.s are not unconstitutional and no they dont violate anybodies rights.

You have the right to vote AS YOURSELF, but you dont have the right to vote AS SOMEBODY ELSE.


you also have the right to not be denied the right to vote FOR ANY REASON, including not being able to produce an ID.
requiring an ID to vote is only unconstitutional when it denies people their ability to exercise their right to vote.


then how do you stop someone from voting twice?



do you vote?
did you vote twice?
neither me nor anybody i know has ever voted twice, either.
and, guess what, i dont have a voter id... shhhhh


so what is stopping me from saying I am you and voting in your place?

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Posted 8/27/13

So because of your anecdotal evidence which says you havent seen it, therefore it doesnt happen?

What kind of pathetic attempt at logic is this?


would having an ID really stop someone from voting twice if they wanted to?
you ever seen someone drink at a bar at the age of 19 and show an ID to the bouncer as they walk in?
you know how many illegal immigrants have valid IDs and social security cards?

do you really think requiring an ID to vote is going to do anythign but hinder those without IDs from exercising their constitutional rights?
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 8/27/13

so what is stopping me from saying I am you and voting in your place?


whats going to stop you from stealing my identity and forging my ID to vote as me?
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 8/27/13


"my right to vote shall not be impeded FOR ANY REASON."

...UNTIL your right violates somebody elses rights. Which a voter ID will prove it isnt.

The right to travel is not a constitutional right? Are you serious?

Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right. In Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them."

Taken from Wiki. Please learn the Constitution of the United States please
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 8/27/13

greenluvs1 wrote:

Swirly_Commode: Since I wasn't at the restaurant with you and your friend, I can't assess whether the establishment was being racist in refusing to take his out-of-state ID. My guess would be that they didn't have the means to verify it's authenticity and were afraid that it might be fake. It isn't fair to your friend, but then, drinking isn't a constitutional right either... right? When I was asking Orphenocou if he/she knew of anyone that it happened to in the US, I was referring to someone attempting to exercise their right to vote at a polling place. Either way, maybe you and your friend could have brought this up to the Better Business Bureau or something.

I know it's easy to get a fake ID now days. That, however, doesn't impede people from getting real IDs. My point is that one's status as a minority doesn't prevent us from getting IDs. Why do we limit ourselves?

I'm not saying requiring IDs will prevent voter fraud. However, I still don't see how its racist if it is asked of everyone. I'm just tired of people claiming racism for everything, when it isn't always the case. It takes away credibility from legitimate claims of racism. Because, yes, racism still exists. I just don't claim to be a victim of it every time someone asks to see my ID.

Of course checking accounts are not a constitutional right. I just brought them up in my reply to the Orphenocou to point out why even busy, minority single moms might need an ID. By chance did you read what he/she and I had posted earlier? I stand by my assertion that it is highly unlikely that anyone doesn't have enough time to get a state-issued ID.Swirly_commode:



i dont think it is racist.
however, as i have been stating here for a couple pages now, you have a constitutional right to vote that is against the law to prevent someone from exercising.
showing up without an ID will prevent you from being able to exercise your right to vote. that is a clear violation of the constitution and your rights as an american.
have you ever lost your wallet/purse? forgot your stuff at work/home?
do you know what absentee voting is?
do you admit that some people dont even have cars or jobs or places to live but still exercise their right to vote?

i think the racism thing is just something thrown out there to garner disapproval.
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Posted 8/27/13 , edited 8/27/13

superluccix wrote:



"my right to vote shall not be impeded FOR ANY REASON."

...UNTIL your right violates somebody elses rights. Which a voter ID will prove it isnt.

The right to travel is not a constitutional right? Are you serious?

Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right. In Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them."

Taken from Wiki. Please learn the Constitution of the United States please


so you dont know what a right is
im not surprised
i took the time to highlight your error.

and you can stop blathering on about my right stopping when i pretend to be someone else because an ID wont prevent that and if you think it will then you have more issues than reading comprehension
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 8/27/13


Glad to see you giving yourself a pass of your lapse in logic due to your anecdotal evidence.

Anyways what you're saying is irrelevant. Would a Drivers license REALLY stop somebody from getting into an accident? Would a age limit on drinking REALLY stop kids from drinking?

Obviously no, nothing is guaranteed 100% fixable, however it does deter it enough for it to be implemented in the first place.

Illegal immigration is another issue entirely, completely irrelevant as to whether Voter IDs should exist or no
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Posted 8/27/13

swirly_commode wrote:


superluccix wrote:



"my right to vote shall not be impeded FOR ANY REASON."

...UNTIL your right violates somebody elses rights. Which a voter ID will prove it isnt.

The right to travel is not a constitutional right? Are you serious?

Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right. In Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them."

Taken from Wiki. Please learn the Constitution of the United States please


so you dont know what a right is
im not surprised
i took the time to highlight your error.

and you can stop blathering on about my right stopping when i pretend to be someone else because an ID wont prevent that and if you think it will then you have more issues than reading comprehension


and while im at it ill highlight my error
i stand corrected

however that isnt talking about freedom of movement in regards to property thats talking about freedom of movement between states
that has nothng to do with your right to freedom of movement stoping at someone elses property
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 8/27/13 , edited 8/27/13


Are you blind? I just highlighted the part YOU need to look at.

So you dont know what a right is, even when the evidence is in words, in front of your face. Jesus.

A voter ID would greatly reduce the risk of having other people violate other peoples rights

Edit: Just saw your correction. Ok


But your still missing the point. The point is to show you have freedom of movement UP UNTIL the point you violating somebody elses rights.

So to compare, you have the right to vote UP UNTIL the point it violates somebody elses rights. Which a voter ID would greatly reduce
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M / chicagoland
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Posted 8/27/13

superluccix wrote:



Glad to see you giving yourself a pass of your lapse in logic due to your anecdotal evidence.

Anyways what you're saying is irrelevant. Would a Drivers license REALLY stop somebody from getting into an accident? Would a age limit on drinking REALLY stop kids from drinking?

Obviously no, nothing is guaranteed 100% fixable, however it does deter it enough for it to be implemented in the first place.

Illegal immigration is another issue entirely, completely irrelevant as to whether Voter IDs should exist or no



im not sure what you are getting at there
a fake voter ID would allow me to vote as anyone i wanted just as you could walk into a voting booth right now and claim to be me.
an ID doesnt prevent anything anymore than a lack of a drivers license prevents someone from driving or underage kids from drinking
illegal immigrants can walk down the road and buy social security numbers and all the valid paper work they require to vote as somebody else. the can put any name they want on their paper work, any address.
the idea that your little ID card is going to prevent fraud is ridiculous. fake IDs are a dime a dozen, every illegal immigrant has one.

the only thing a voter ID is going to do is prevent people from exercising their right to vote
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