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Post Reply Faith-based healing church community afflicted with measles outbreak
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M / USA
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Posted 8/28/13
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/08/27/ac-pkg-kaye-megachurch-measles.cnn.html

Okay, lets ignore the religious aspect of this story, since that's opening another whole can of worms there.

What this story boils down to is "vaccination vs. no vaccinations".

So, are you pro or anti-vaccination? Why?

I'll chime in after a while, but curious to see what others think about this subject first.
Posted 8/28/13
Well, I am usually pro-vaccination, and yet I have heard of several natural medicines that do work. And some vaccinations are known to cause problems.

But then again, for the vaccinations that do work, and continue to work in the long run - if it ain't broke, why fix it?

It's all personal choice though. People shouldn't be forced to choose one or the other.
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17 / F / USA
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Posted 8/28/13
>There are people out there that are anti-vaccination

Plebs.
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22 / F / Johnstown, PA, USA
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Posted 8/28/13 , edited 8/28/13
It depends. I don't want to waste money on flu vaccinations, because they can't keep up with how fast the flu virus evolves. By the time they come out with a vaccination, the strain has evolved, which makes the vaccines virtually useless. I don't mind tetanus shots and the ones that are pretty much obligatory for children, though I question the necessity of a good many of them. I'm familiar with medicinal herbalism, which opens the doors to thousands of cures/remedies that I can use in place of contemporary fixes. I'm fine with vaccines. I just refuse to depend on them. In fact, I have a book open to various Measles remedies. As it turns out, the church-goers' infections mean that they can't get Measles again, while the vaccine doesn't give that guarantee. Go figure. lol
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Posted 8/28/13
Obviously God is punishing them.

Seriously though, I'm really glad you asked this because I have a soapbox to stand on. The two best ways to avoid infections are to wash your hands and get vaccinated. Even if you yourself don't get sick often, you could be an asymptomatic carrier of whatever diseases you've been exposed to. As a carrier who doesn't look, feel, or seem sick, you go about your business interacting with old people, children, and the immunocompromised, and spreading disease to all of them, potentially endangering their lives.

On the other hand, when people don't get vaccinated they allow the pathogen to use their bodies for reproducing and potentially mutating. Occasionally a virus mutates into a form that is not recognized by the immune systems of people who have been vaccinated. This can only happen in an infected host. If everyone got properly vaccinated, weird mutations wouldn't be as much of a concern.

I think it is incredibly selfish and irresponsible to opt out of vaccinations, especially childhood vaccinations. I think that those who choose to not be vaccinated should be held responsible for the full cost of treating the diseases they are allowing themselves (and their children) to be vulnerable to. This includes cost of developing and distributing medicines, the wages for health care providers, and lost wages for people who were sick and couldn't work, or stayed home with sick children. If anyone dies from a disease (like measles or pertussis) that are part of the legally required childhood vaccinations, then the parents that opted out of vaccinating their children should be held liable for damages in a civil suit. Every single one of them should bear the burden of their irresponsible and willful medical negligence.

Think about it. There are about 11,000 drunk-driving fatalities every year in the US, but about 36,000 influenza-related deaths. We punish drunk drivers for putting the rest of us in danger. Why don't we hold people responsible when they put us in danger by willfully choosing to spread disease?
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F / Urban South
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Posted 8/28/13

puellapeanut wrote:
Well, I am usually pro-vaccination, and yet I have heard of several natural medicines that do work. And some vaccinations are known to cause problems.

You have been misinformed. The only natural medicine that would replace vaccination is innoculation. Herbs and rhino horns do nothing. Also, I challenge you to provide evidence of a vaccination that has been known to cause problems, and what problems they actually cause. Don't say autism, because that's been debunked repeatedly for years.
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35 / M / Northern California
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Posted 8/28/13
The anti-vaccination mentality is dangerous, in my opinion. It's not simply the propaganda, it's the results. Aside from the fact that scientists have not found any link between autism and vaccinations, there are people, including some children, who are unable to be vaccinated due to health issues. By not vaccinating their kids, they put other kids at risk for exposure to contagious diseases. It's a public health risk. That's why many states have laws that require, aside from certain medical exemptions (as noted above) that kids in public schools have to be vaccinated.

It is of no surprise that most of the kids involved in this incident were already being homeschooled, and that information was put out there to calm the public about the outbreak. It's unfortunate for the kids, but given that Kenneth Copeland is so against not just vaccination, but modern medicine...it was just a matter of time for an incident like this to happen.


puellapeanut wrote:
It's all personal choice though. People shouldn't be forced to choose one or the other.


It's not just their own kids at risk, and that's why I find that mentality not just selfish, but dangerous. If those kids are in a captive environment with other kids, i.e. in public schools...then there are state laws that require vaccinations for easily communicable diseases, as I mentioned. Those parents do not get to have the right to potentially risk the health of other kids by refusing vaccinations for their kids.

It's easy to say, "if they don't like it, they can just homeschool their kids". But that's part of why this situation became so exacerbated into an outbreak...and she is urging her parishioners to get the vaccinations, directly opposed against the propaganda her father has been pushing for years.
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49 / M / In
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Posted 8/28/13
pro-vaccination and normaly I never questions another persons faith until it efects me or my love ones. If your going to send your kids to the school my kids go to they better damm well have thier shots
Quarlo 
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Posted 8/28/13
The Anti-Vaccination crowd hold up the results of a study published by Andrew Wakefield. A British doctor whos 1998 report seemed to draw a direct correlation between vaccinations and autism.

Unfortunately Mr Wakefields results have been proven to be fabricated and he has lost his licence to practice medicine in the United Kingdom. It seems he was performing tests on day care children without anyones concent.

As for groups that use religious reasons to avoid vaccinations, good luck to them.
Posted 8/28/13

mhibicke wrote:


puellapeanut wrote:
Well, I am usually pro-vaccination, and yet I have heard of several natural medicines that do work. And some vaccinations are known to cause problems.

You have been misinformed. The only natural medicine that would replace vaccination is innoculation. Herbs and rhino horns do nothing. Also, I challenge you to provide evidence of a vaccination that has been known to cause problems, and what problems they actually cause. Don't say autism, because that's been debunked repeatedly for years.


I don't know, I mean what about the flu vaccination? A lot of the people who took it actually got sick, versus the people who did not take it who remain perfectly well.

(Not a vaccination but...) there have also been reports that getting a mammogram/s actually cause breast cancer in the long run.

I do support vaccination, but I'm just saying - sometimes for some things there are other options.
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20 / M / Towcester
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Posted 8/28/13
If you think it's ok to just let your kids get diseases, then pass them onto other kids, then you should not be allowed children.
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18 / M / New York
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Posted 8/28/13
Pro vaccination 100%, but I don't get the flu shot because I hate needles >.<.
Being anti vaccination is very ignorant... I could go into a long scientific rant, but I don't have the time to type it out =P
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Posted 8/28/13
I'm anti-vaccination not because of some silly religion but because of the alien nanites and Elvis DNA the government hides in there. Why else did you think they abducted him?
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22 / M / SoCal
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Posted 8/28/13
I'm pro for anything serious but don't get flu vaccines. Seems like the only people I know who get the flu got the shot too.
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22 / M / Wales
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Posted 8/28/13
Definitely pro vaccine. Nothing has been proven to cause deteriorating health.

And that study by the Doctor that found autism was not only conducted without consent, but he also manipulated evidence and did countless other fraudulent things - with some believing it was a conspiracy for a different vaccine to take over as a different medical company wanted increased sales.
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