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Faith-based healing church community afflicted with measles outbreak
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37 / M / Northern California
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Posted 8/29/13

DivinePrince wrote:

If it gets rid of the morons, I do not care.


Unfortunately, getting rid of the morons this way risks a lot of collateral damage, i.e. those that would want to be vaccinated, but are unable to due to existing health issues. Also, some of the infected were infants and toddlers, and I don't feel right about them being punished for the willful ignorance of their parents.
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Posted 8/29/13

Spazticus wrote:


DivinePrince wrote:

If it gets rid of the morons, I do not care.


Unfortunately, getting rid of the morons this way risks a lot of collateral damage, i.e. those that would want to be vaccinated, but are unable to due to existing health issues. Also, some of the infected were infants and toddlers, and I don't feel right about them being punished for the willful ignorance of their parents.




The population of humans on this planet is overboard anyways. I still don't mind.
( and before you say the overly cliche snarky rhetorical question) Yes, they could kill ME for all I care. I dont care. My life will be extinguished at some point or another anyways. Lol
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37 / M / Northern California
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Posted 8/29/13 , edited 8/29/13

DivinePrince wrote:


Spazticus wrote:


DivinePrince wrote:

If it gets rid of the morons, I do not care.


Unfortunately, getting rid of the morons this way risks a lot of collateral damage, i.e. those that would want to be vaccinated, but are unable to due to existing health issues. Also, some of the infected were infants and toddlers, and I don't feel right about them being punished for the willful ignorance of their parents.




The population of humans on this planet is overboard anyways. I still don't mind.
( and before you say the overly cliche snarky rhetorical question) Yes, they could kill ME for all I care. I dont care. My life will be extinguished at some point or another anyways. Lol


Fair enough, though I think they should be educated rather than executed... Fewer kids will result either way, since educated people are more likely to use contraceptive measures.

I still think these kids should be taken away from their parents if they don't learn from this incident, because this sort of reliance on only faith healing is often considered child abuse.
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It doesn't matter.
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Posted 8/29/13
Saw that coming.
They should have learned from the plague.
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F / Urban South
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Posted 8/29/13

sepeck wrote:

Inoculations? I get them as do my kids. Flu vaccine, I get it every year.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm

As mentioned, they make a best guess on what will be most common but it takes so darn long to prep these things. So getting the flu shot in any given year is a crap shoot. However there are several studies out there that demonstrate that your resistance rate against the flu over time goes up dramatically over the years if you continue to get it. I will note that I am one of the lucky people to get the occasional side effect (as documented in the link above). It sucks but it sucks significantly less then a really bad case of the flu (which I have also had).

My grandfather was born in 1900 and when I was 10-11 (5th grade) I had to do a 'report' where I interviewed someone in my family. One of the questions I had to ask was 'How was the "good ole days" when he was a kid? His answer was "good old days? When I was a kid people died of the flu. They got diseases where they couldn't walk and died (Polio).... so you tell anyone talking about the good old days that they don't remember what life was like with all the people dying of everything and are full of crap!" Then I got to listen to similar things for another long while (hey, I was 10-11 it probably wasn't that long but at that age it was FOREVER). My dad had to explain what some of the things grandpa said meant and also said I couldn't say them.

Seriously I look at the people who are promoting their anti-whatever hysteria... They 'doctor' and actress who started it. People went and looked at his research and he had an 'alternative vaccine storage methodology he was patenting and they found his research had some fabrications. Actresses juicing up hysteria... Anti-science activitist drumming up money for their political agenda... Oh yea, the doctor lost his license as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_controversy
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/index.html

SO, feel free not to get them but sufferings pretty darn horrible and please don't live near me or let your kids go to my school.


Best answer yet.
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22 / M / Ireland
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Posted 8/29/13
Yeah if Vaccinations truley are life saving I am all for it
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Posted 8/30/13 , edited 8/30/13
Interesting replies, nice to see both good pro and con arguments.

Myself, I'm pro-vaccination. Sure, needles are scary and painful, but its nice living in a world without polio and other diseases that killed or disabled people less than a century ago right?

Smallpox was once a pretty deadly disease, but has been all but wiped out now thanks to a concentrated effort to first inoculate, then vaccinate people worldwide. I think the last case of it was in 1978.

Regarding flu shots, yeah, they're pretty much crapshoots. But I'd rather just get a shot than have to sit through being sick as a dog for a few days.

And even in the remote off-chance that vaccinations DID cause any autism (which has already been thoroughly debunked), vaccinations still have prevented many diseases from killing people. I think I'll take my chances at the "slight risk" of autism over the deaths of millions from diseases that could be easily vaccinated against.

http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Immunization-Vaccine-Effectiveness.jpg
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37 / M / Northern California
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Posted 8/30/13
There was a comment I saw on one of my usual blogs, by an autistic commenter. In regards to there being no link between vaccines and autism, he said this:

And even if there were [a link], calling a (non-existent) vaccine-autism link a reason not to vaccinate is telling autistics like me that we would be better off dying of measles or polio.
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Posted 8/30/13

mhibicke wrote:


puellapeanut wrote:
Well, I am usually pro-vaccination, and yet I have heard of several natural medicines that do work. And some vaccinations are known to cause problems.

You have been misinformed. The only natural medicine that would replace vaccination is innoculation. Herbs and rhino horns do nothing. Also, I challenge you to provide evidence of a vaccination that has been known to cause problems, and what problems they actually cause. Don't say autism, because that's been debunked repeatedly for years.


actually, most vaccinations and medicines in general are just the synthetic versions of naturally occurring chemicals. the pharma companies change one protien or some other inert property of the different chemicals, every now and then, just to hold the patent and force people to pay more for "new" things.
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Posted 8/30/13
I'm not against them, as a faith person myself I believe that we were created with brains to figure out how to best help others with sicknesses. I've never felt a particular need to have vaccines other than what I had to have for travel/school/work, but if there's a genuine need for it then I think it's okay.

As for anything else, it's smart to research a vaccine before getting one. Sometimes they have crazy side effects. :/

Really, leading a healthy lifestyle in the first place is a good way to avoid getting vaccines.
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F / Urban South
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Posted 8/30/13

swirly_commode wrote:
actually, most vaccinations and medicines in general are just the synthetic versions of naturally occurring chemicals. the pharma companies change one protien or some other inert property of the different chemicals, every now and then, just to hold the patent and force people to pay more for "new" things.

You are incorrect about vaccines and medicines being only synthetic versions of naturally occurring chemicals. You're right about big pharma being cutthroat opportunists though.
If you like medicines, you may be interested in pharmaceutical sciences. Many of my cohorts are researching the development of novel vaccines, but my interest is designer nootropics and psychopharmaceuticals.
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26 / M / Norway.
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Posted 8/30/13

mhibicke wrote:


puellapeanut wrote:
Well, I am usually pro-vaccination, and yet I have heard of several natural medicines that do work. And some vaccinations are known to cause problems.

You have been misinformed. The only natural medicine that would replace vaccination is innoculation. Herbs and rhino horns do nothing. Also, I challenge you to provide evidence of a vaccination that has been known to cause problems, and what problems they actually cause. Don't say autism, because that's been debunked repeatedly for years.


My mother is classified as 'high risk' when it comes to infections, diseases and the like for reasons that I do not wish to discuss here. During the swine-flu outbreak/hysteria, we were called in together with others listed as priorities for the vaccine due to the circumstances regarding my mother. My family were pushed very hard into getting this vaccine, with the assurance that it had no serious side-affects beyond the common symptoms of the flu itself.

I took it "voluntarily" as did my father and my mother, my sister however was physically forced into taking it as she was and is extremely afraid of needles. Two nurses held her down in a chair while a third nurse administered the vaccine telling her there's nothing to worry about and almost laughing at how afraid my sister was.

Before this, my sister was an life-loving grade-A student who excelled in various sports and was on her way into medical-school as she wished to become a doctor, mainly a pediatrician. Today she's suffering from myalgisk encefalomyelitt, which is an chronic fatigue syndrome. She is unable to go to school, unable to work and utterly unable to partake in any of the several sports that she once used to love. Where she once could go from having 3 practises a day and still have the energy to socialize or study, she now gets exhausted from even small physical excercises and ends up constantly feeling drained of any and all energy. When I say small physical excercises I'm refering to things such as walking our dog.

She has no history of any illness even remotely associated with ME, the one and only link is the vaccine that she was forced to take. She is also far from alone, an considerable amount of people from my country now suffers from similar conditions. Years later, the department of health is still going through all the cases trying to figure out who's to blame and deciding how much each persons life is worth in cash, handing out varying amounts based on factors that can only be described as "the patients potential pre-vaccine".

I am pro-vaccination, as it without a doubt does more good than bad. My point is that it's important to recognize the bad aswell, to understand that sometimes peoples lives end up getting destroyed and even though it might be acceptable percentage-wise, steps has to be taken in the aftermath in order to ensure that some quality of life is returned to the people negatively affected.

People like my sister are easy to dismiss and ignore when they're an small percentage on a piece of paper, but not so easy to dismiss when met in person.

This thread hit me personally, so I guess I turned it into something of a rant and I apologize for that, let's call it an theraputic excercise. And If anyone actually bothers to read the whole thing, thank you for taking the time to do so. =)

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F / Urban South
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Posted 8/30/13


This is a very interesting (and sad) story. I am curious to know more details, and also the epidemiological stats of CFS in Norway. I found an article regarding an adjuvant, or vaccine additive that is designed to increase the immune response to the vaccine antigen. Apparently there is a correlation between multiple vaccinations containing specific adjuvants and some idiopathic autoimmune diseases. I can probably get you the full article, if you'd like.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896841110000788
I wonder if the H1N1 vaccines in Norway were made with new adjuvants that hadn't been thoroughly vetted. I'm also surprised that they didn't have an needle-free alternative vaccination. Here in the US the only H1N1 vaccination that was available for months was the nasal spray.
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Posted 8/30/13

Nozferi wrote:


Yeah...on the one hand, vaccines definitely have done more good than harm, having wiped out or neutralized numerous horrific diseases in a way that's usually completely safe, cheap, and non-invasive. Chronic fatigue sucks (I should know, what with having some weird variant of it), but it's a hell of a lot better than multi-limb paralysis or, y'know, death.

On the other hand, this sort of thing really shouldn't happen. In general, unless you're in a life-or-death situation, it's a bad idea to use medicines or medical procedures that haven't been exhaustively tested. Most of them have been, because even though (or because) doctors know vastly more about biochemistry than the average person, they're aware of the fact that our understanding of the ludicrously complicated human body is crude, at best. If something hasn't been tested enough, there's no telling what side effects it might have. Of course, it's often hard to know what components in something might be experimental...and not all doctors are competent enough to use such things carefully.

And then there's the issue of people seeing ads for questionable, recently-developed prescription medications on TV and demanding them from their doctors (Ask your doctor about Viagra! It probably won't cause blindness!), which is a whole other can of worms.
mipegg 
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24 / M / England
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Posted 8/30/13

mhibicke wrote:


puellapeanut wrote:
Well, I am usually pro-vaccination, and yet I have heard of several natural medicines that do work. And some vaccinations are known to cause problems.

You have been misinformed. The only natural medicine that would replace vaccination is innoculation. Herbs and rhino horns do nothing. Also, I challenge you to provide evidence of a vaccination that has been known to cause problems, and what problems they actually cause. Don't say autism, because that's been debunked repeatedly for years.


Even worse than that there was never any evidence for it to begin with, it was entirely made up by a british newspaper. Since then its caused the deaths of countless children due to measles mumps and rubella (the MMR jab is one all children havei n the UK and the one that 'caused autism'). Even if it has a tiny chance of causing autism, you know what? Autism isnt fatal in any way and is entirely managable, indeed, many autistic people dont care and their autism can even drive them further in life due to the ability to get completely captivated by something. Where as loosing limbs from measles or dieing, well you're fucked then.

I think the other one I heard a few years ago is the government made it manditory for all girls of age 11 to get a cervical cancer jab (not sure quite what it is but it was something to do with needing to have it pre-sexual maturity and reducing risks/causes/something). At any rate a load of nutters went off about how this'll just cause girls to get 'even more promiscuous' at a young age since they dont have to worry about cervical cancer. Are you shitting me?

Basically, if you're anti-inoculation, go drown yourself for the sake of everyone around you.
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